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Here's what you were waiting on, Joe!
- Thread starter Kat
- Start date
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
HURRAH!!!!
I can’t wait to see their “NORMAL”l little noses poking out. It looks like our hypo test breeding project will provide some new and/or collaborating information this year.
Other test breedings this year include:
Don S:
Lava X Standard Hypo
Lava X Sunkissed Hypo
And perhaps others
Kat:
Lava X Ultra (This one)
Ultra X Sunkissed
Serp:
Lava X Dream
Carlos: (Carlos is assuming that Ultra and Straw are the same)
Ultra(straw)/Normal hypo
Normal hypo/Christmas
Sunkisse/Christmas
Ultra(straw)/Christmas
Lava/Ultra(strawberry)
Christmas/Lava(anery female)
Lava/ultra(straw).
Anybody else doing in test breeding between different “NAMED” hypos?
I can’t wait to see their “NORMAL”l little noses poking out. It looks like our hypo test breeding project will provide some new and/or collaborating information this year.
Other test breedings this year include:
Don S:
Lava X Standard Hypo
Lava X Sunkissed Hypo
And perhaps others
Kat:
Lava X Ultra (This one)
Ultra X Sunkissed
Serp:
Lava X Dream
Carlos: (Carlos is assuming that Ultra and Straw are the same)
Ultra(straw)/Normal hypo
Normal hypo/Christmas
Sunkisse/Christmas
Ultra(straw)/Christmas
Lava/Ultra(strawberry)
Christmas/Lava(anery female)
Lava/ultra(straw).
Anybody else doing in test breeding between different “NAMED” hypos?
mike panic
Member
Iam so out of touch with these hypos its not even funny
can someone give me a crash course? Joe, those lavas are which type of Hypo Again? I would really appreciate if someone could put it down in a brief paragraph. Thanks alot.
can someone give me a crash course? Joe, those lavas are which type of Hypo Again? I would really appreciate if someone could put it down in a brief paragraph. Thanks alot.
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
One paragraph, No way!
A brief paragraph?! It would take several I am afraid to begin to explain the group of Hypo morphs that currently exist within corn snakes. Some are known, some new hypo morphs may exist and many Standard Hypos are being called by a never ending list of trade names. Much like the amels trade names, Sunglow, Candy Cane and so on, but for some reason, when a new phase of hypo comes along, it seems to not be connected with or is intentionally not connected with the Standard hypo gene. Perhaps the hypo gene involved is just not known, because there are more than one.
Which are compatible with which, or perhaps a better way to think about it, which are not compatible with which? It should be assumed, in my opinion, that all hypos are the standard hypo gene unless claimed to be otherwise.
The standard hypo gene most of us know has been around for a very long time. It is referred to a Type A hypo and has been called many things such as Rosy Corn, Super Hypo and on and on. The second hypo gene that proved to be incompatible with the standard hypo gene is the Sunkissed Hypo, and is called Type B Hypo. The Standard hypo and Sunkissed hypo were bred together and normal hatchlings were produce which proved they were incompatible and different hypo genes.
A few other hypos seemed to pop up and were given different trade names. Ultra, Pumpkin, Dream, Christmas, Strawberry, Red Phase, Yellow Phase and more, but they were not tested against the two previously known hypo genes and were not stated to be the standard hypo gene. Perhaps it was even strongly suggested that they were not the standard hypo gene and perhaps a new hypo gene.
I had a hypo pop up out of my wild Okeetee line, that I suspected was a new hypo gene. It has many characteristics that were very different than the other two known hypo genes. I was not alone. Some of the other trade named hypos can be linked back to wild caught stock as the stories go. I decided to test bred this hypo that popped up in my collection against the other two known hypos. I bred this potential new hypo to the Standard hypo and got all normal hatchings. I also bred them to the Sunkissed hypo and got all normals babies. My conclusion was that this hypo that popped up in my colony was in fact a new hypo and it has been referred to as Type C hypo and is currently named Lava Hypo. I previously called them Transparent Hypo. I call the pure line from wild caught stock, Lava Okeetees, and all out crossed corns which are homo for the Lava hypo gene, Lava Corns.
So we now have, Standard hypo, Type A, Sunkissed Hypo, Type B, and Lava Hypo ,Type C. There may be more that exist right now, but others have not test bred their potential new hypos against the known hypos. I did and was next in line for the Type C listing. Others could have tested theirs, but have not.
I am interested I finding out more information, as many other people are, about the compatibility of Trade named hypos. Without the knowledge of which type hypo gene your snakes are caring, there can be compatibility problems and further mixing of the hypos to cause even more confusion than already exist.
Some hypos genes have already been mixed up and causes questions about their compatibility with other hypos. The Ultras Hypos are a good example. The Ultras have been bred to the Standard hypo and Sunkissed hypo and normals have been produced, which makes the Ultras incompatible with these two hypos. The problems is that some Ultras when bred to these two hypos produce half litters of hypos, which highly suggest that some Ultras have at least two hypo genes in the mix.
Since Mike was wanting this short and it is very long already, I will give a brief history of the story behind the other hypos we are testing the Lavas too. The Christmas hypos are linked to wild caught stock, but have not been tested against other hypo, except maybe the standard hypo. The Strawberry Hypos came for stock from a Zoo and were called Ultras at one time, but perhaps not the same as the others known as Ultras. They really do look like strawberries, so the name is fitting, but again, they have not been tested against the other known hypos. Dreams involve a wild caught light Okeetee, but were bred to an Okeetee Phase with no known background purchased from a breeder. It is very possible that the hypo gene involved came from this Okeetee and not the wild one and is most likely the standard hypo gene.
Compatibility is the issue. We have three known hypos that have been test bred and they are not compatible with each other. The problem is that the hypo gene involved to produce many of the hypos gets lost when animals are sold and especially in the wholesale market. So far an amel is an amel no matter where you get it, but a hypo without background info is an unknown genetically, due to the fact there are several incompatible hypo genes that are known to exist and perhaps more.
If Kats test breeding between her Ultra X Lava produces normals hatchlings, this will prove, or for the critics, highly suggest that the Ultra is a new hypo gene and deserving of a Type D listing. Kat’s Ultra has been tested against the Standard hypo and presently she has eggs from an Ultra X Sunkissed breeding incubating. Others have bred Sunkissed to Ultras and found they were not compatible.
Funny Misty! I do have many of the location of the treads on my computer, but they are not hot keyed. LOL I suggest anybody that is interested in learning more about the hypo talk on the forum do a search on this forum and they will find many threads about hypos and the current mess they are in. Use key words like “Hypo”. “Sunkissed”, “Ultra”, “Lava”, “Transparent” and any others you may come up with.
Another good source of info on the subject is Serp's new book "The Buyers Guide to Corn Snake Morphs" or the Love's "Corn Snake Manuel". A must have and must read for anybody interested in corn snakes.
A brief paragraph?! It would take several I am afraid to begin to explain the group of Hypo morphs that currently exist within corn snakes. Some are known, some new hypo morphs may exist and many Standard Hypos are being called by a never ending list of trade names. Much like the amels trade names, Sunglow, Candy Cane and so on, but for some reason, when a new phase of hypo comes along, it seems to not be connected with or is intentionally not connected with the Standard hypo gene. Perhaps the hypo gene involved is just not known, because there are more than one.
Which are compatible with which, or perhaps a better way to think about it, which are not compatible with which? It should be assumed, in my opinion, that all hypos are the standard hypo gene unless claimed to be otherwise.
The standard hypo gene most of us know has been around for a very long time. It is referred to a Type A hypo and has been called many things such as Rosy Corn, Super Hypo and on and on. The second hypo gene that proved to be incompatible with the standard hypo gene is the Sunkissed Hypo, and is called Type B Hypo. The Standard hypo and Sunkissed hypo were bred together and normal hatchlings were produce which proved they were incompatible and different hypo genes.
A few other hypos seemed to pop up and were given different trade names. Ultra, Pumpkin, Dream, Christmas, Strawberry, Red Phase, Yellow Phase and more, but they were not tested against the two previously known hypo genes and were not stated to be the standard hypo gene. Perhaps it was even strongly suggested that they were not the standard hypo gene and perhaps a new hypo gene.
I had a hypo pop up out of my wild Okeetee line, that I suspected was a new hypo gene. It has many characteristics that were very different than the other two known hypo genes. I was not alone. Some of the other trade named hypos can be linked back to wild caught stock as the stories go. I decided to test bred this hypo that popped up in my collection against the other two known hypos. I bred this potential new hypo to the Standard hypo and got all normal hatchings. I also bred them to the Sunkissed hypo and got all normals babies. My conclusion was that this hypo that popped up in my colony was in fact a new hypo and it has been referred to as Type C hypo and is currently named Lava Hypo. I previously called them Transparent Hypo. I call the pure line from wild caught stock, Lava Okeetees, and all out crossed corns which are homo for the Lava hypo gene, Lava Corns.
So we now have, Standard hypo, Type A, Sunkissed Hypo, Type B, and Lava Hypo ,Type C. There may be more that exist right now, but others have not test bred their potential new hypos against the known hypos. I did and was next in line for the Type C listing. Others could have tested theirs, but have not.
I am interested I finding out more information, as many other people are, about the compatibility of Trade named hypos. Without the knowledge of which type hypo gene your snakes are caring, there can be compatibility problems and further mixing of the hypos to cause even more confusion than already exist.
Some hypos genes have already been mixed up and causes questions about their compatibility with other hypos. The Ultras Hypos are a good example. The Ultras have been bred to the Standard hypo and Sunkissed hypo and normals have been produced, which makes the Ultras incompatible with these two hypos. The problems is that some Ultras when bred to these two hypos produce half litters of hypos, which highly suggest that some Ultras have at least two hypo genes in the mix.
Since Mike was wanting this short and it is very long already, I will give a brief history of the story behind the other hypos we are testing the Lavas too. The Christmas hypos are linked to wild caught stock, but have not been tested against other hypo, except maybe the standard hypo. The Strawberry Hypos came for stock from a Zoo and were called Ultras at one time, but perhaps not the same as the others known as Ultras. They really do look like strawberries, so the name is fitting, but again, they have not been tested against the other known hypos. Dreams involve a wild caught light Okeetee, but were bred to an Okeetee Phase with no known background purchased from a breeder. It is very possible that the hypo gene involved came from this Okeetee and not the wild one and is most likely the standard hypo gene.
Compatibility is the issue. We have three known hypos that have been test bred and they are not compatible with each other. The problem is that the hypo gene involved to produce many of the hypos gets lost when animals are sold and especially in the wholesale market. So far an amel is an amel no matter where you get it, but a hypo without background info is an unknown genetically, due to the fact there are several incompatible hypo genes that are known to exist and perhaps more.
If Kats test breeding between her Ultra X Lava produces normals hatchlings, this will prove, or for the critics, highly suggest that the Ultra is a new hypo gene and deserving of a Type D listing. Kat’s Ultra has been tested against the Standard hypo and presently she has eggs from an Ultra X Sunkissed breeding incubating. Others have bred Sunkissed to Ultras and found they were not compatible.
Funny Misty! I do have many of the location of the treads on my computer, but they are not hot keyed. LOL I suggest anybody that is interested in learning more about the hypo talk on the forum do a search on this forum and they will find many threads about hypos and the current mess they are in. Use key words like “Hypo”. “Sunkissed”, “Ultra”, “Lava”, “Transparent” and any others you may come up with.
Another good source of info on the subject is Serp's new book "The Buyers Guide to Corn Snake Morphs" or the Love's "Corn Snake Manuel". A must have and must read for anybody interested in corn snakes.
mike panic
Member
thanks Joe, I appreciate it..........
after I placed the orginal post, I thought to myself................That is asking quite a lot from people. I knew you could come through for me. In the meantime I went over to the new Micks predictor and it was also fairly helpful. There are two things I have been neglectful in when it comes to my cornsnakes, Hypos and the Bloodreds. I have been paying much more attention to them as of late. I have been trying to add Bloodred morphs and now, different Hypos into my collection.
Why I have your attention, how does Ken Sifferts( formerly Mike Shivers) amber motleys fall into the Hypo game? Are they Ultras? if so, how do we know how they will breed into other Hypos? Thanks.
after I placed the orginal post, I thought to myself................That is asking quite a lot from people. I knew you could come through for me. In the meantime I went over to the new Micks predictor and it was also fairly helpful. There are two things I have been neglectful in when it comes to my cornsnakes, Hypos and the Bloodreds. I have been paying much more attention to them as of late. I have been trying to add Bloodred morphs and now, different Hypos into my collection.
Why I have your attention, how does Ken Sifferts( formerly Mike Shivers) amber motleys fall into the Hypo game? Are they Ultras? if so, how do we know how they will breed into other Hypos? Thanks.
mike panic
Member
MegF.
That's for sale???
She's gorgeous! Thanks for the pic. I haven't had a chance to get some photos of Maya from above yet. She's still too squirrely to let loose just yet. She's already managed to get herself squeezed into my computer chair so that I had to take it apart to get her out! Here's a picture I have of her though.
Attachments
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
Ultra Amber Motley X Standard Hypo
The Ultras originated from a wild caught in the Tampa area. Mike Falcon owned the snake, but never bred it to other lines of hypos. Mike Shivers obtained his Ultras from Andy Barr who got them from Falcon.
Shivers bred an Ultra to an Amel het Butter from Rich Z. This breeding is where the Ultra Ambers and Ultra Amber Motleys come from that Ken Siffert has. They are awesome!
Shivers said that when he bred his Ultras, that he obtained from Barr, he always got some hypos, so the Standard hypo gene is in the mix. Shivers also had Ultra Motleys come from his breedings so my guess would be that Barr crossed the Ultras into other morphs.
When Shivers bred his Ultra Ambers to others from the same clutch he produced Ultra Ambers, Ambers, Butters, Carmels, Amels, Ultras and hypos, with the Motley gene in the mix. It seems that the Ultra Motley Ambers have the Ultra, hypo, amel, carmel and motley gene in the mix as homo, het or poss het. The Ultra Ambers may just be homo Ultra and Carmel, but the other genes in the mix could be playing a role.
I have spoke with Shivers and Falcon via email, but I have never talked to Barr. This is the story as I understand it about the Ultra Hypo. Several people have bred their Ultras X Standard hypo and the results are very mixed which suggest that the Standard Hypo gene in the mix. Some people have got all normals, some half Hypos and some all hypos. This suggest that some Ultras are Homo Ultra, some Homo Ultra het Hypo and some Homo Ultra and Hypo.
Since Kat’s Ultra produced all normals from her breeding to a Homo hypo, her Ultra seems to be only Homo for Ultra and Motley and I believe het for carmel, without the hypo gene in the mix. She should be able to produce Ultra Ambers without the hypo gene in the mix which hopefully will look just like Siffert’s. For all me know at this time the Ultra Motley Ambers could be Homo for Ultra/Motley/Hypo and amel or any combo of them. Since their eyes are not pink, I think we can eliminate the amel gene as homo.
I think if the Ultra Motley Ambers are bred to other hypos, like the Standard Hypo, it is likely that the results will be mixed like other breeders have gotten from the same cross. (Ultra X Standard) I haven’t heard of anybody getting hypos out of an Ultra X Sunkissed breeding so that cross would produce normals. Kat’s test breeding of the Ultra X Lava will test the compatibility of these two hypos. I suspect that they will not be compatible and the Ultras can stand as a new hypo gene. It is very unlikely that a hypo from wild caught stock in the Tampa, FL area (Ultra) and a hypo from wild caught stock in Jasper Co, SC. (Lava) will be compatible.
The Ultras originated from a wild caught in the Tampa area. Mike Falcon owned the snake, but never bred it to other lines of hypos. Mike Shivers obtained his Ultras from Andy Barr who got them from Falcon.
Shivers bred an Ultra to an Amel het Butter from Rich Z. This breeding is where the Ultra Ambers and Ultra Amber Motleys come from that Ken Siffert has. They are awesome!
Shivers said that when he bred his Ultras, that he obtained from Barr, he always got some hypos, so the Standard hypo gene is in the mix. Shivers also had Ultra Motleys come from his breedings so my guess would be that Barr crossed the Ultras into other morphs.
When Shivers bred his Ultra Ambers to others from the same clutch he produced Ultra Ambers, Ambers, Butters, Carmels, Amels, Ultras and hypos, with the Motley gene in the mix. It seems that the Ultra Motley Ambers have the Ultra, hypo, amel, carmel and motley gene in the mix as homo, het or poss het. The Ultra Ambers may just be homo Ultra and Carmel, but the other genes in the mix could be playing a role.
I have spoke with Shivers and Falcon via email, but I have never talked to Barr. This is the story as I understand it about the Ultra Hypo. Several people have bred their Ultras X Standard hypo and the results are very mixed which suggest that the Standard Hypo gene in the mix. Some people have got all normals, some half Hypos and some all hypos. This suggest that some Ultras are Homo Ultra, some Homo Ultra het Hypo and some Homo Ultra and Hypo.
Since Kat’s Ultra produced all normals from her breeding to a Homo hypo, her Ultra seems to be only Homo for Ultra and Motley and I believe het for carmel, without the hypo gene in the mix. She should be able to produce Ultra Ambers without the hypo gene in the mix which hopefully will look just like Siffert’s. For all me know at this time the Ultra Motley Ambers could be Homo for Ultra/Motley/Hypo and amel or any combo of them. Since their eyes are not pink, I think we can eliminate the amel gene as homo.
I think if the Ultra Motley Ambers are bred to other hypos, like the Standard Hypo, it is likely that the results will be mixed like other breeders have gotten from the same cross. (Ultra X Standard) I haven’t heard of anybody getting hypos out of an Ultra X Sunkissed breeding so that cross would produce normals. Kat’s test breeding of the Ultra X Lava will test the compatibility of these two hypos. I suspect that they will not be compatible and the Ultras can stand as a new hypo gene. It is very unlikely that a hypo from wild caught stock in the Tampa, FL area (Ultra) and a hypo from wild caught stock in Jasper Co, SC. (Lava) will be compatible.
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
Glass Corns
How about Homo amel, anery a, Lava, Sunkissed and hypo = Glass Corn.
I have Double homos for Amel and Lava that look different than each so they can have an effect when combined. I am currently raising Hets for Lava and Sunkissed and plan to see what a Homo Lava/Sunkissed looks like. The Lavas and Sunkissed are so different, that I suspect that I will be able to tell the difference within the clutch between the two, but I am not so sure that I will be able to tell a Lava from a Homo Lava/Sunkissed.
Hets for Sunkissed and Hypo were raised by Rich Z and the results were inconclusive or put something like that. Sunkissed and Hypos both still have a considerable amount of black pigment and a Hypo Okeetee and Sunkissed Okeetee do look very similar. I also produced Hets for Lava and Hypo, but did not save them to see what I would get. I wish I would have now.
How about a Homo, Lava hypo , Standard Hypo, Sunkissed hypo , Strawberry hypo, and Christmas hypo = Glass Corn. How do they get Glass Fish anyway? I think the next 10 years of combining morphs will put the last 10 years to shame!
Photo: Homo Lava Amel
How about Homo amel, anery a, Lava, Sunkissed and hypo = Glass Corn.
I have Double homos for Amel and Lava that look different than each so they can have an effect when combined. I am currently raising Hets for Lava and Sunkissed and plan to see what a Homo Lava/Sunkissed looks like. The Lavas and Sunkissed are so different, that I suspect that I will be able to tell the difference within the clutch between the two, but I am not so sure that I will be able to tell a Lava from a Homo Lava/Sunkissed.
Hets for Sunkissed and Hypo were raised by Rich Z and the results were inconclusive or put something like that. Sunkissed and Hypos both still have a considerable amount of black pigment and a Hypo Okeetee and Sunkissed Okeetee do look very similar. I also produced Hets for Lava and Hypo, but did not save them to see what I would get. I wish I would have now.
How about a Homo, Lava hypo , Standard Hypo, Sunkissed hypo , Strawberry hypo, and Christmas hypo = Glass Corn. How do they get Glass Fish anyway? I think the next 10 years of combining morphs will put the last 10 years to shame!
Photo: Homo Lava Amel
Attachments
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
This is a sibling to the above Homo Lava amel that is an Amel Okeetee. You can see how much the Lava gene had an effect. I do not think we can really predict what kind of effect each gene will have when combined with another, until we "Just do it!" We can make educated guesses, but they will just be guesses.
