I am soooo angry and upset (long rant)

For those that dont know my story.I had boas and pythons before.Well I decided with my doctor bills that I could no longer handle the expense of large snakes.So I sold some.
BUT I kept a few favorites and "gave" them to a "reptile rescue"..Well I did ask the guy if he had some corns I would really love to have either a couple pairs or some babys if he had any but this was not a condition of the transaction.
I got the 5 non eaters hatchlings one of which died(he told me they had eaten at least twice)..

So this breeder gets ahold of me and says this guy other want to confirm one of the pythons he "bought" did indeed have the morph that he was told.Well this breeder contacted me. Turns out one of the animals I specifically asked him to keep because I didnt want it passed around he sold as a special morph to someone for 500 dollars.He told this guy I sold it to him for even more then that too....I am just hot...I do have some of the original emails though.I sent the guy who bought this animal a pic to identify if this is the animal in question....I feel totally betrayed..

Unless you have things in writing, I'm sorry, but what a new owner does with his possessions is his right and you no longer have any say in the matter. I know that stinks and I do sympathize, but all you can do right now is let the newest owner know what the original transaction was, confirm or deny the genetics of the snake with whatever knowledge you have and if the newest owner decides to write up a BOI thread, most definitely put in your opinions of the guy. And just in case you haven't determined this (but I think you have) ANY "rescue" is just a flipper in disguise. They are that way with dogs, cats, birds, and reptiles.

The problem is he is saying I sold it to him for 1700 as a special morph.When this snake is only worth about 85 bucks.Its not the money for me its the snake.I really loved that girl and thought she was going to a rescue not a seller.

Ive just determined that I am no longer going to sell, give away, or buy anymore snakes...This experience is just too much...

joann42 said:

Ive just determined that I am no longer going to sell, give away, or buy anymore snakes...

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If you have a hard time separating your emotions from animals no longer yours, this may be the right choice for you. I don't mean that negatively either, hope ya don't take it that way. The rescue has to pay it's bills also. You really can't expect a rescue to just continue to "rescue" animals without "adopting" (call it what you want) them out to people who want them, or fall for a line, or whatever. Yeah sounds like he told a whopper, but really, in this day and age, who goes to a rescue for morph boa's? :shrugs: Buyer beware for real

I agree, if I had to get rid of our carpet python George I'd want him to continue to live out his easy living lifestyle with the next person to keep him. I also would have done as much as possible not to place him in a rescue; they are what they are, and they do what they do.

Sorry. that is happen to you I hope you can get it stright it out.

So your saying its okay this guy lied and said I sold him the snake for 1700 dollars and he is just making money for his rescue?

joann42 said:

So your saying its okay this guy lied and said I sold him the snake for 1700 dollars and he is just making money for his rescue?

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if you mean me...

I didn't say it was right for him to lie to you and the adopter/customer; lying never is. I'm saying that's what reptile "rescues" do, in as far as what happens to the animals they "rescue". They "adopt" them out. Not saying I agree with it, and not saying all people who run rescues are liars or flippers either.

I do agree that what happened sucked and I'm completely sympathetic to what has happened to you; I'm also not surprised

I'm sorry this has happened to you. However, I think the fact that it is a "rescue" lends someone to believe that they will work to find forever homes for the animal. I am not in anyway condoning the lying, but as a rescue that person does have to make money to continue being able to rescue animals that can no longer be taken care of by their families.
I hope I didn't offend you at all, that was not my intention at all. And if I did, I am truly sorry.

Unfortunately, I am not surprised, either.

I am very sorry you have to deal with this - it really stinks to have such people involved in our hobby / industry.

But there are a lot of unscrupulous people out there, and only some of them are in the animal business. I have been the recipient of unethical dealings before, and it did really rub me wrong. I hate injustice, especially when it happens to me! But after a while, I decided that if there was anything I could do about it (such as let others know of the behavior), I would. But other than that, I would just try to make myself less vulnerable in the future, since we will all meet up with people like that more than once in our lives. If you don't want to let it drive you crazy, you almost have to look at it as a lesson learned, analyze what you can do to avoid such people, and move on. But if you let that type of experience totally change the way you live or think, then the bad guys win. And if you live a fairly normal life of at least a few more years, I can pretty much guarantee you will meet somebody like that again - possibly in some area of your life totally unrelated to animals. So it makes more sense to prepare yourself for that eventuality, rather than to assume that all future pet transactions are likely to lead to this same, sad conclusion.

Please don't think that those types of people are what you can usually expect in the reptile hobby. You are just as likely to meet them anywhere, anytime. Once the bitter taste of this experience softens a little with time, I hope you will be able to feel that to be true. However, as stated earlier, if you feel really strongly about it, you are probably right to limit your exchanges of animals to as few as possible. That will equate to less stress for you.

My ball python was given to a breeder by the owner, the breeder used him as a stud, got a clutch of eggs and sold him to us for a $50 dollar fee. I felt this was a reasonable transaction. Not all snake rescue people are as bad as your experience. Learn to read people's intent and not just hear their words. There are a lot of fast talkers out in the world in every business so unless your plan is to live under a rock you must learn how to red flag people.

If you like snakes, then keep some within your budget. If the thought of giving out your pets sickens you do not breed animals and find a trusted pet sitter who may take in an extra pet for a few months.

Susan said:

And just in case you haven't determined this (but I think you have) ANY "rescue" is just a flipper in disguise. They are that way with dogs, cats, birds, and reptiles.

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All I can say is WOW! This could not be further from the truth. The problem is that you likely did not go through a real rescue. There are, unfortunately, many many people out there who are just looking for free animals, of any species. And, yes, they just turn around and sell them to anyone with some cash. A real rescue screens homes, provides veterinary care, charges "adoption fees", not sale prices.

I am extremely involved in rescue work with dogs, parrots and reptiles. Our dogs receive an average of $400 each in vet care, covering neutering and vaccinations, as well as occasionally heart worm treatment, or treatment for behavioral issues. We charge $250 for an adoption fee. We fund raise our butts off to cover the difference. People fill out an application. The dog is matched to the home. We check references. We do home visits. And, we also take our dogs back at any point in their lives, for any reason, if the adopter can no longer keep him.

My reptile rescue has an application to fill out. We do a phone interview to make sure the applicant knows proper care of the animal. Our adoption fees are generally in the $20-$30 range. We also take the animals back if the owner can not keep them.

My parrot rescue does not charge any fees at all. We do require people to put in volunteer time in lieu of money, so that people can see first hand the enormous amount of care that large parrots require, and the lifetime commitment they will be making since the bird will likely be with them for the rest of their lives. All parrots are vet checked prior to adoption. We fund raise to cover expenses.

Do these activities sound like "animal flipping"?? No way.

So, how to tell if you are working with a real rescue versus someone just looking for free animals to re-sell? Real rescues are registered charities. They will have a federal tax ID number designating them as a 501(c)3 charity. The rescue will be happy to provide you with this number if you ask. Real rescues will show you any paperwork on the animal. Shelters give the rescue paperwork when an animal is pulled showing any known history on an animal. Owners fill out surrender paperwork if the animal comes directly as an owner surrender. Rescues will show this paperwork to any potential adopter if asked. Rescues do some kind of screening to make sure that the animal is a good match for the applicant. Rescues make sure the applicant has the proper knowledge and equipment to care for the animal. They do NOT just hand over an animal to whoever offers to pay the most. Rescues will take back their adopted animals if the adoption doesn't work out.

So, just like if you were hiring a plumber, check out a person or organization before working with them, and before handing over your animals or money. But, please don't denigrate every one who works so hard to truly rescue animals.

I personally handed out a hybrid kinked baby, whom the "rescuer" tried to sell on as a healthy pure animal.
He then began saying that he took the snake to the vet and fixed the kink(a 10 grams snakeling, mind you).
I called him out publicly and of course he dropped the attempt.

That doesn't mean that there aren't true angels out there who take it upon themselves to care for the animal and give it a good home... you had bad people on all fronts sadly.

I guess everyone's experience is different. My experience in this area has been with wildlife rehabbers and a reptile rescue that was just what srsb described. All my snakes are rescues. They were rescued from an animal supplier that was keeping them in terrible conditions where thousands of animals died. The government confiscated them and they were farmed out to rescues and shelters. I had to fill out an application, sign a contract and pay a modest adoption fee. This rescue was definitely not making money on the deal.

The disgusting thing is that joanne42 ran across an unscrupulous individual who is posing as a rescue. I would feel just as taken in and just as furious. But it isn't surprising.

I see people on Craiglist all the time, claiming to be rescues for specific animals, or prettymuch any animal. They're either looking for free animals to keep, or they're flippers. There are a lot of them out there.

I would say that if the "rescue" is not one you have heard of, & is not 501(c), then it's almost always safe to say they're a flipper or just looking for free animals.

I am sorry to hear that you had this experience.

I *had* a friend (or so I thought she was) that I had given some snakes to & also did some trading of snakes, & I told her that if/when she ever decided she didn't want any of them, I wanted to get them back (buy the ones that were traded).
I never got it in writing, because I thought I could trust her.
She sold every last one of them.
Obviously, I no longer have anything to do with her.
In hindsight, there were signs, I just didn't heed them.

Does that stop me from trusting people? No. But I am cautious.
There are still people I have no problem trusting, & do not require agreements in writing. It goes both ways, these people trust me as well.

Bottom line, it wasn't in writing, there's not much you can do (other than let the person know who bought it, that the animal is not the special morph the person sold it as-I would want to know before investing time & money in breeding it.)

This "rescue" person obviously has no morals & no integrity, & that really sucks. Karma will catch up to them, one way or another.

I have seen the same thing on Craigslist - people mainly looking for freebies.

OTOH, I have a friend who is a vet tech and operates an "unofficial rescue" out of her home. She takes in a few of the birds, cats, dogs, ferrets, and reptiles that are dumped at the clinic she works for, and tries to find good homes. The vets help out with vet work, and she often charges very little to those wanting to adopt. She often allows a donation to the local herp society in lieu of an adoption fee for members of the society who want to adopt a reptile from her. She has no official charitable status, but everything she does is for the best outcome for the animals. I don't know how she affords the time and money to do what she does.

So there are all kinds of rescues, official and non official. You just have to research the best you can before you deal with one.

Well this guy gave me a huge story that he just got an okay from the local humane society to build a big building just for reptiles, and would use some of the snakes as displays for classroom kids etc..I specifically asked him if he would keep the blood.He said he would and she would be a great display for the kids etc etc etc....So I just assumed that he would really keep her and not adopt her out.And Im sorry but any rescue that is asking 500 as an adoption fee is just not a rescue but a seller.
I dont normally worry that much about an animal I sell or trade or adopt out.But I was looking for a perfect place for this particular animal and thought Id found it.
Personally I wont trust any rescue now unless I see the facilities myself now.My hubby is always telling me Im too trusting of people.

On good note I talked to the man who bought her and he said if he cant get his money back he would keep her as a pet.I hope he does.