Ball Python troubles..

Okay, so a short background- I had my ball in a big 2x4 display viv for about the last year and he at first seemed to respond well to it (90 degree hot spot, 80 ambient, 60%humidity, lots of cover).. then he started to have bad sheds, went on a few feeding strikes, so I started to feed him ASFs.
He stopped eating those mid October, and has not eaten since. Three weeks ago, he was moved to a 41quart tub in a rack, had a good shed (still a few pieces but he didn't need any assistance for the first time in about a year). I was so hopeful that he would eat the last ASF I had in my freezer but he still shows no interest, so yet another wasted rat... He's three, so it could just be "that time of year", but I am wondering if I should keep offering him food every other week, or if I should resort to a live rat pup? I was thinking I'd just get frozen rats at petco or something and if he doesn't eat them I can give them to one of the other beasties.. How long should I wait before I resort to live? I heard someone say that their balls go off feed from October to March, so if he doesn't start eating by April should I try live rat pups or crawler ASFs? You all know that I feed my critters f/t or p/k, so live isn't something I want to do if can be avoided. Also, is it okay to handle him when he's not eating well? He's getting a little huffy and puffy at me now since I haven't really handled since October. He's one of the first snake's I ever got, and he's the only one that gets on my nerves! lol.

Welcome to the world of balls. I wouldn't worry much at all as they can go off food for quite a while and still do fine. If he's been taking f/t, I'd just stay with that. I'm thinking he's just being a guy and there's also the typical winter fast as well. I'd offer every two weeks or so and just wait. If he starts to lose significant weight (and they usually don't) then I would try something else, but like my false water cobra, even after losing more weight than I was happy with, he suddenly started eating again and hasn't looked back. He'll be fine.

Okay, thanks. My friend has a ball that goes off feed for 8 months lol. I'm just a worried momma since everyone else (colubrids and a boa) eat like they've been starved. Can I still handle him even though he's not eating?

yeah you can handle him.

i have a question though, you say hes three, and that hes on rat pups? that seems quite small for 3yrs old

How big is he? BPs often prefer smaller cramped spaces. So maybe even a 32qt tub might be better. It is also breeding season, so that can affect things. I'd give him a couple of weeks, and try not to disturb him and then offer him a live and see what happens.

So long as he's not losing weight, I wouldn't worry about it too much so long as otherwise he is outwardly healthy.

cmack91 said:

yeah you can handle him.

i have a question though, you say hes three, and that hes on rat pups? that seems quite small for 3yrs old

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No, he's not on rat pups. But I'm not going to feed live rats to him cause that's extraordinarily dangerous. He usually gets one ASF a week.

Blue Apple Herps said:

How big is he? BPs often prefer smaller cramped spaces. So maybe even a 32qt tub might be better. It is also breeding season, so that can affect things. I'd give him a couple of weeks, and try not to disturb him and then offer him a live and see what happens.

So long as he's not losing weight, I wouldn't worry about it too much so long as otherwise he is outwardly healthy.

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He is close to 2 lbs (I don't remember the grams). If I put him in a 32 quart tub it won't be dark like in the rack.

Ahh yes, Ball Python woes! My ball is 6yrs old this yr. Aside from the first year, he has gone off feed every year from mid Oct. to Late feb. early march. Without losing much weight at all. He'll be fine. As far as the sheds..I too had mine in a "tank" at the start....then 3years ago...put him in a 41qrt tub, he has done wonderful since, sheds are without issue. The tubs hold humidity so much better than a tank with partial blocked screen top. just my 2 cents.

rich333 said:

Ahh yes, Ball Python woes! My ball is 6yrs old this yr. Aside from the first year, he has gone off feed every year from mid Oct. to Late feb. early march. Without losing much weight at all. He'll be fine. As far as the sheds..I too had mine in a "tank" at the start....then 3years ago...put him in a 41qrt tub, he has done wonderful since, sheds are without issue. The tubs hold humidity so much better than a tank with partial blocked screen top. just my 2 cents.

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Good to hear that most of them seem to go off feed mid October! Mine was in a 4ftx2ft plastic cage from showcase, it doesn't have very many vents and I had covered the one in the back. The humidity had been a constant 60%, bumped up higher when he was in blue, so the only thing I could attribute the sheds to were stress?

This is coming from someone who works with Balls as a career. Adult males Balls for the most part are not feeding this time of year. I still offer food, but 99% aren't eating. Also a display viv, despite having lots of hides is nowhere near as good as a 32qt tub with cypress mulch and a water bowl would be. As for feeding, live is going to be the way to go. It's not extraordinarily dangerous. On Friday I fed 400 Ball Pythons live rats. Not a one got bit. I would offer a live small rat, in a couple weeks. Literally, I have never seen a Ball Python get bit by a live rat. I've done thousands of feedings, and never ever had an issue.

We also feed smaller live pray items then a prekilled. Nothing bigger than a rat pup or mouse hopper. It seems to get them going!

PS> I have been bite by a small rat and took off the tip of my finger can only imagine what it would do to a snake.

We recently had success with our rescued pinstripe male who hadn't eaten in 2 months. Hubby gave him a live rat pup and it took him awhile but he ate it so hubby put in the second live rat pup and he immediately took it. So this next time we are going to try a live rat pup and prekilled.

This method has been successful with our stubborn spotted python as well. He has gone as long was 4 months without eating or showing any interest. We tried the rat pup but he just cuddled up with it like it was his bff. So the next time we did a mouse hopper and prekilled adult mouse... BINGO off his strike!

Carinata said:

This is coming from someone who works with Balls as a career. Adult males Balls for the most part are not feeding this time of year. I still offer food, but 99% aren't eating. Also a display viv, despite having lots of hides is nowhere near as good as a 32qt tub with cypress mulch and a water bowl would be. As for feeding, live is going to be the way to go. It's not extraordinarily dangerous. On Friday I fed 400 Ball Pythons live rats. Not a one got bit. I would offer a live small rat, in a couple weeks. Literally, I have never seen a Ball Python get bit by a live rat. I've done thousands of feedings, and never ever had an issue.

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Yes, and I do understand that. My concern is that he has stopped showing interest in food at all, he used to grab his prey as well as my boa (bite + constrict) but lately I'd have to leave him over night with a f/t rat or ASF, and since October he hasn't eaten at all, no matter what tricks I try to play. I'm not too keen on leaving him with a small rat that could bite him, that's why I wanted to try with pups. He's never eaten in view of me, so I'd have to leave him alone (he'd use to "kill" his food and then leave it there). My ex left a stubborn baby ball with a mouse hopper and next time he checked on it there was blood everywhere and the baby ball looked like one of those pics that show up every so often about live feedings. I'm just concerned that leaving a small rat in there will end up like that.

I have seen the results of rats on snakes though. I have seen missing eyes, noses and sometimes parts of skin....and not from leaving the snake unattended just a poor grab that resulted in the rat retaliating. Unless the snake absolutely has never taken f/t, I won't feed live. Biggest reason I wouldn't keep a ball. I've got one here from the vet that wouldn't eat and I'm getting ready to try live, but as soon as this creature is eating something-it's gone. She's a pain in the ass. I have lots of snakes, including w/c imports and they all take f/t readily. No reason to risk my very expensive snakes when they all eat. got no use for non feeders. If your male ate f/t before and he's just off for breeding time, just wait it out. It's a python....slow metabolizers and they go months and months and not starve. My false water cobras have one of the fastest metabolisms on the planet...they are one of the few I feed weekly, and my male went off food for a total of 108 days before taking something. He did lose some weight but he is definitely much more active than any ball python. Even my cornsnakes rarely lost more than 50 grams in the 3 months they refused food during breeding season. Your snake will do fine without some meals.

Very good post Meg.

I personaly don't own any Balls pythons but seem like I read they do tend to go off feed more than corns but as you stated "a slow metabolizers " so no harm in waiting. Feedng live (one that can do damage) is down right scary. P/K would be the next route I would think.

Good luck to you.

MegF. said:

I have seen the results of rats on snakes though. I have seen missing eyes, noses and sometimes parts of skin....and not from leaving the snake unattended just a poor grab that resulted in the rat retaliating. Unless the snake absolutely has never taken f/t, I won't feed live. Biggest reason I wouldn't keep a ball. I've got one here from the vet that wouldn't eat and I'm getting ready to try live, but as soon as this creature is eating something-it's gone. She's a pain in the ass. I have lots of snakes, including w/c imports and they all take f/t readily. No reason to risk my very expensive snakes when they all eat. got no use for non feeders. If your male ate f/t before and he's just off for breeding time, just wait it out. It's a python....slow metabolizers and they go months and months and not starve. My false water cobras have one of the fastest metabolisms on the planet...they are one of the few I feed weekly, and my male went off food for a total of 108 days before taking something. He did lose some weight but he is definitely much more active than any ball python. Even my cornsnakes rarely lost more than 50 grams in the 3 months they refused food during breeding season. Your snake will do fine without some meals.

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Lennycorn said:

Very good post Meg.

I personaly don't own any Balls pythons but seem like I read they do tend to go off feed more than corns but as you stated "a slow metabolizers " so no harm in waiting. Feedng live (one that can do damage) is down right scary. P/K would be the next route I would think.

Good luck to you.

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I work with Ball Pythons extensively, and like I've stated, I've never seen a rodent do any damage to a Ball Python. I have seen Balls take F/T once and refuse to take them ever again. I have some Balls at work that will take both live and F/T, and I'll feed them F/T. Feeding live can be done right, especially with a big muscular snake like a Ball Python. Most of the time, the rats are dead within seconds of the snake grabbing them. I've watched, snake grabs squeezes, and the rodent goes limp. When you deal with Balls, live feeding is sometimes a must.

Ummm.... I would never feed any of my ball pythons large size live prey. No matter how many times you have feed them does not mean there are no risks. Even on ballpython.net they do not advocate live. Some will only take live yes.. but if the OP snake was eating f/t why take the risk of throwing in a live that can do harm? Seriously? I have seen ball pythons put to sleep because a rat paralized them by biting their spinal cord. I dont have hundreds to to replace my family member and I doubt the OP does either. We dont work in breeding facilities. We are deal with family members! BIG difference.

Not saying you dont have the experience. I am sure you do. And you work them every single day and you feed hundreds of them without incident. But it doesnt mean it CANT happen and that is what most is afraid of.

beautifullywild77 said:

Ummm.... I would never feed any of my ball pythons large size live prey. No matter how many times you have feed them does not mean there are no risks. Even on ballpython.net they do not advocate live. Some will only take live yes.. but if the OP snake was eating f/t why take the risk of throwing in a live that can do harm? Seriously? I have seen ball pythons put to sleep because a rat paralized them by biting their spinal cord. I dont have hundreds to to replace my family member and I doubt the OP does either. We dont work in breeding facilities. We are deal with family members! BIG difference.

Not saying you dont have the experience. I am sure you do. And you work them every single day and you feed hundreds of them without incident. But it doesnt mean it CANT happen and that is what most is afraid of.

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Yes I work in a breeding facility, that doesn't mean I don't care about the animals or value them any less than my own. Ask any big Ball Python breeder, Brian from BHB, Mike Wilbanks, Mark Haas, etc. Most Balls will feed consistently on live. Can it happen? Sure. So can you getting mauled by a Grizzly Bear and a Polar Bear in the same day? Sure. All I'm saying is after thousands of feedings, I've never seen it happen. Doesn't mean it can't, which is why I watch very carefully when I feed but, if done right risk is extremely minimal, and the animal doesn't go without food.

I never said you didn't care about the animals. please do not put words in my mouth. It is not becoming of anyone.

I am saying those of us that see these animals as family members we don't want to risk ANYTHING when it comes to them. Would I let my kid run around in Grizzly country or even Black Bear country or in the Artic circle with the Polar Bears? Heck no! So why would I do it with my pets. That is my point.

I have read many post on ballpython.net researching them and we have rescued 3 of them. They recommend trying to get your snake on f/t and try very many different ways in doing it. Yes some will only eat live, even my vet has to feed her 15 yr old bp live because he wont eat f/t. She doesnt recommend it tho because she has seen what can happen up close and personal. But you are missing the point... the OP ball python was eat f/t ASFs before he went off his feeding. She even replied to you up there ^^^^^^^^ post 12 that she doesn't want to risk it. And her adult male will be ok if he goes off food for a few months as long as he doesn't lose weight. It is in the bp nature to do so, am I correct?

And I just have to ask, out of my own morbid curosity, how do you watch so very carefully each snake when you feed 400+ every time you feed?

beautifullywild77 said:

I never said you didn't care about the animals. please do not put words in my mouth. It is not becoming of anyone.

I am saying those of us that see these animals as family members we don't want to risk ANYTHING when it comes to them. Would I let my kid run around in Grizzly country or even Black Bear country or in the Artic circle with the Polar Bears? Heck no! So why would I do it with my pets. That is my point.

I have read many post on ballpython.net researching them and we have rescued 3 of them. They recommend trying to get your snake on f/t and try very many different ways in doing it. Yes some will only eat live, even my vet has to feed her 15 yr old bp live because he wont eat f/t. She doesnt recommend it tho because she has seen what can happen up close and personal. But you are missing the point... the OP ball python was eat f/t ASFs before he went off his feeding. She even replied to you up there ^^^^^^^^ post 12 that she doesn't want to risk it. And her adult male will be ok if he goes off food for a few months as long as he doesn't lose weight. It is in the bp nature to do so, am I correct?

And I just have to ask, out of my own morbid curosity, how do you watch so very carefully each snake when you feed 400+ every time you feed?

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Yes, that was my understanding of her post too. You and Meg seem to grasp her point. If you spend the high dollor on BP's why risk it. Pfft

If the snake starts to loose weight, live is the best way to go. By saying, I work for a breeder but your snakes are like family it (to me) sounds like I would care less.

Basically when I feed I like to make sure the snake has grabbed the rat before I move to the next tub. If the snake seems interested but doesn't grab right away I leave the rat in the tub for maybe 10 minutes, and check periodically.