How old is too old to just freeze them?

[Amanda E]

I'm nearing the point where I need to start killing fuzzies rather than pinkies.

Right now I'm just freezing the pinkies and I've heard that you can do the same with fuzzies, since they are still "smother-proof," for lack of a better word.

My question is exactly how old is too old to freeze straight from the nest? Or when do I need to start using CO2?

[Quigs]

I'll probably get ragged on for saying this but I don't care.

I freeze pretty much anything under a weanling. Weanling and on up, I knock them out first before freezing. Although I am getting ready to build a CO2 chamber as well.

Does that helps?

Quigs

[Taceas]

Pretty much the same for me, as sad as that sounds. :eek1:

"Cerebral reorganization" of small mice is a very inaccurate method for pure euthanization. They're resilient as all hell. And up till they have their eyes open, they are still "smother resistant". Mother Nature builds em right, I guess.

When the mice are starting to become self-capable (eyes open, bathing, eating solids, running around) I'll stun them first and then place them in the freezer. This is the least messy and traumatic I've found.

For newborns to fuzzies, I've found it helps to use the plastic ice cube trays. It keeps them separate from one another, reducing their body tempreture quicker than if they were in a group huddling for warmth.

[Quigs]

That would be alot of ice cube trays in our little freezer! I culled 116 pinks last week...lol

But idea sounds like a good one!

Quigs

[Taceas]

Largest I've done so far is 70-80. That was, of course....a while ago. =P

I've got a fridge and freezer in the polebarn solely devoted to rodents and reptiles.

It's nice having your own fridge for that purpose. I no longer have my mom looking in my freezer and saying "I see dead things". Which after watching the "Sixth Sense" just makes me giggle, which she obviously doesn't see the humor in it. *sighs*

[Slitherin']

I do about the same thing as you guys, except for one little difference. I would simply place my pinkys and fuzzies in a sterlite shoe box, and put it in the freezer. Couple of hours later I would pull it out and package the frozen rodents in bags. One time I did this with some hoppers, but I forgot to pull them out a couple of hours later. About three days later I saw the sterlite in the freezer and pulled it out to package up the mice and discovered about three or four of the hoppers alive huddled up in the corner. Imagine my surprise. I now use CO2 on anything bigger than a small fuzzy.

[pcar]

I do the same as just about everyone else on here. I freeze pinks and fuzzies. anything with eyes open, I flick the back of the head before putting them in the freezer.

I am going to start working on a CO2 chamber beings I have a couple of CO2 tanks from my paintball stuff laying around not being used right now.

[lockshockbarrel]

It's inhumane at any age, unless you knock them out first. *covers her neck and hides under the desk*

[pcar]

thanks for your opinion Lockshockbarrel. but if you really think about it, raising mice for the soal purpose of feeding them to snakes and lizards is inhumane too.

Now, before anyone says anything to me, I raise mice too, and take them directly from the mother and either freeze them or feed them...so there.

[CornCrazy]

It's inhumane at any age, unless you knock them out first. *covers her neck and hides under the desk*Well, you can't really do this with young mice anyway. Their skull is just too soft. I tried once (that's how I know it can't be done)...it smushed his brain and made him bleed out inside his skull (he looked hydro-cephalic). I felt TERRIBLE! Because of that, I just freeze any of them that don't have their eyes open. If they are bigger than that I stun them, then freeze them.

I am also hoping to build a CO2 chamber soon for the older mice.

[Krenna]

I know those days are coming soon for me.. as mine get older.. :bounce:

[Sasheena]

There are a lot of opinions .....

Someone once said put the pinkies in a plastic baggies and give it a whack on the counter.... my response was "Won't that just produce pinkie slush?" ... his response "I do it all the time, never happens" ... so I tried it... and got pinkie slush! (ewww)....

Another suggestion I've heard, and I actually do this if I plan on freezing pinks or fuzzies.... is throw them on the floor. They don't go squish (thank goodness) and they usually end up dead. One or two might be gasping, but I just put them all in the freezer at that point. I know it sounds awful, but I feel better than just freezing them. Hoppers and adults, if I don't want to do a mass CO2 euthanization, I either whack or I use dislocation (pencil behind the head holding the head down, quick jerk of the tail, and CRACK their little necks are broke). I prefer CO2 which is most humane (for older animals) but still isn't nice... no killing is nice! Up until recently I have never really tried to freeze too much.... but with my mouse population not really producing what I need anymore, I need to start freezing them in the right sizes when I have them, so that I don't have to worry about a shortage when the mice don't feel like breeding. I have scads of baby rats right now that I really OUGHT to freeze... all perfect mouse size... but they are so DANG cute! (urgh)

CO2 time tomorrow~

[princess]

when I used to, I used a method I figured out by myself to be as quick and humane as any. You give the mouse a surface to grip, like newspaper and then give them a short sharp whack on the back of the neck with the blunt edge of a heavy knife. You needn't come down from 3 feet up, just 5 cms, so you can be quite accurate and if you have some kind of grippy surface and hold the mouse gently by the tail, the mouse obliges and crawls away from you, thus stretching it out and letting you take aim.
I felt just aweful the first few times but soon realised that it was very quick and the mouse never saw it coming. If by any chance you don't kill the mouse with the first whack, you can place the knife at the aim spot and give the tail a yank. The stunned mouse won't try to run off. If you try the pencil method on an alert mouse, it often can slip away from you a couple of times and I think this is quite distressing for them.

I used this method on mice from 10 days to retired breeder size with satisfactory results but never bred pinks for food, so I can't advise on that.

[Amanda E]

I just wanted to let everyone know I appreciated your info.

I think I'll just go ahead and freeze straight from the nest up to when they open their eyes, then use CO2.

[CornDazzle]

Why freeze, just feed them to snakes. Seem like a much faster death. If there are so many that you must freeze, then, why do you let them breed? Just curious. :eek1:

[Taceas]

Why? Because some people don't like feeding live animals to their snakes. Is there something wrong with that?

And its not a question about 'so many', its about what they feel is ethical for the mice. It also happens to go along with saving for later, that is the main purpose for most behind f/t food, is it not? Convenience.

Just because I freeze berries in the summer doesn't mean I've picked too many, it means I want to save them for later in the year when its winter out.

The same principle applies to some rodent breeders. They do it when its seasonally convenient and pack away all they can before the cold weather sets in and they get rid of their mice until next spring.

I think you missed the point that the poster of this ancient original thread, was trying to convey. :shrugs:

[zapthycat]

Holy crap, this is a brutal thread... lol

How many friggin' snakes do ya'll have? 116 pinkies? I thought the snakes only ate a couple a week...?

[Taceas]

Heh! Like I said, most people freeze them in bulk for use later on when times are lean for the mice. And when vacuum packed, mice can last for over a year. So your two pet mice can provide quite a few meals in their lifetimes.

I have around 50 cornsnakes of varying ages right now. But generally, the ones I keep are only 30 or so I'd venture to say. The rest are hatchlings whose time I wish was shorter around here.

But all of mine get live or pre-killed food. Just don't like f/t.

[vanderkm]

While each person will make their own choice about how to kill feeder rodents, freezing live mammals of any age cannot be considered humane. A humane death requires immediate death or loss of consciousness that persists until death - and exposure to the -20 degree C temperatures in a normal freezer doesn't do either.

Even pinky and fuzzy mice remain conscious and follow the most basic instincts to seek warmth long after they are placed in a freezer. It is easier to deny the suffering when you close the lid and don't see them shiver.

A humane method of killing mice up to hopper size and pinky rats - that results in immediate death - is to pinch the skull from the nose end. You simply squeeze from the nose toward the neck, crushing the skull between your thumb and index finger - the brain is completely destroyed and typically is pushed back under the skin of the neck. There will be a bit of a bulge and some discoloration but the skin shouldn't break - everything is confined and the body remains clean and intact with minimal bleeding. The animal dies instantly.

Yes, it is 'hand's on' but it fulfills the criteria of a humane death and produces a decent 'product' for freezing. It can be done very quickly and is much more suitable for small rodents than cervical dislocation.

I realize that many people will continue to freeze rodents alive, and many more don't care whether the death of feeders is humane or not. Your animals, your decision.

But for those who do care - consider this method -


mary v.

[rhinecat]

Thank you, vanderkm, for saying that. I hadn't heard of that method, but I'd like to at least try it to see what's happening to the anatomy--if it is, in fact, destroying or detaching the brain, I think that would be quite humane.

[BabyMowgli]

I think I'll keep buying mine from the pet store, I only have two snakes at the time, I just can't do the hands on thing. It isn't that I care about the mice, cause I don't. I just can't kill them....ewwww. LOL

[wonton]

I think I'll keep buying mine from the pet store, I only have two snakes at the time, I just can't do the hands on thing. It isn't that I care about the mice, cause I don't. I just can't kill them....ewwww. LOL

I'm the same way. Buying a frozen mouse is like buying meat the the grocery store for myself. I don't feel so bad about it because I didn't kill it personally. I'm the type of person who won't even squash bugs on purpose.

Killing mice for snake food doesn't bother me as snakes gotta eat! I just don't want to do it myself.
- Megan

[retrievers]

i,m thinking of starting to breed my own mice for my snakes but how and what is quickest death without the suffering i just thought of putting them in the freezer job done but what does this co2 method involve

[Bobo's Mama]

Just an FYI, you should create a new thread, but I'll answer you anyway :wavey: . I use CO2 and it seems to work great for hoppers and on up. Its hard to use CO2 with fuzzies and pinkies because they don't use much oxygen to breath, otherwise they would get smothered by their bedding, siblings, and mom constantly sitting on them.

The CO2 method I found that works for me and doesn't require a large investment is as follows. You take a gallon size ziploc bag, put 2 tablespoons of baking soda in it. Get a 3ft long section of clear plastic tubing. Tape one end of the tubing to the handle of a 2-cup measuring cup. Leave the other end alone for now. Then place the measuring cup inside the bag with the baking soda. Pour vinegar in the cup, to the 2-cup mark, trying not to spill the vinegar. Then tape the bag shut with the tubing sticking out. Put the mice or rats into the container you are going to use. Milk jugs and juice jugs work great. Place the other end of the tubing in the jug so that the end is in the middle of the jug. Then start pooring the vinegar out of the cup and into the bag. Go slowly at first, like do a few ounces at a time. If you do it too fast the bag will fill up with gas too fast and it will pop open. It shoudn't take too long for the mice to fall over and die. I usually wait a few minutes before taking them out, just to make sure they are good and dead. Also, line the container with paper towels, because they will pee and poop when they die. There are other methods of CO2 that include using dry ice or paintball CO2 tanks.

For fuzzies and pinkies, I use the whacking method to kill them before putting them in the freezer. Because they don't have much hair, you can just put them in the freezer and they will die quickly, but I just feel bad doing this. So I whack them. This is how I do it. I hold on to their left arm so they stop wiggling, then I flick them on the backs of their heads with my thumb and middle finger. Do it in the palm of your hand first to see how hard to do it. If you do it to the palm of your hand and it stings, that's hard enough.

Hope this helps!

[jjbull]

this is a really good thread thxs i only have 1 snake at the moment but we know how addictive it is and might start breeding mice if its not too much hassle but never thought how to kill the mice, think i would feel bad just freezing i like it to be quick will definatly be popping back in here for more info thanks for the info

[Ratsicles]

Here is an alternative Co2 chamber.

You need a 5 gallon bucket (with Lid), a small "tupperware" type bowl (with lid) that will fit into the bucket, and a source for small chunks of dry ice.

Take the tupperware type bowl and drill a bunch of holes in the lid (most of mine are 1/4" holes). The "tupperware" bowl and lid is to prevent prey from coming into direct contact with dry ice. Contact with the dry ice will cause frostbite and limbs to fall off (on prey).

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/Bdadawg/other/78883ae5.jpg

Get about 1lb of dry ice. I smash it with a hammer to create more surface area, then pour it into the "tupperware" bowl. Then add water til it is at 2-3" above the level of the dry ice (once the water hits the dry ice it will immediately start to off gas, so you may want to pre measure an amount). Put the drilled lid back on the "tupperware" bowl.

Put the "tupperware" bowl into the 5 gallon bucket
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/Bdadawg/other/b16172c3.jpg

Place the bucket lid on LOOSELY (do NOT make it air tight or the lid will pop off and can cause injury).

Start putting in the prey you want to euthanize. I put 2-3 medium to large rats in every 30 seconds. They will pass out in about 10 seconds and expire within 2 minutes (usually less but 2 minutes is for just in case).

This method will produce Co2 for about 7 minutes. More water can be added or the bowl shaken to produce more.

This can easily be scaled up for more at a time ... however do not use Iris tubs (these crack real easily with drastic temp changes), or glass fish tanks.

If anything needs more clarification please post back.

Bryan