hybrids?

[shibbyherphuntr]

hello, just wondering what you all think of hybrids? do you think its right or wrong? also, has anyone found a hybrid in the wild or is that possible? personally, i see nothing wrong with it, but i just wanted to hear what others thought about it? :) :sidestep:

[Bluebeard]

i personal like the looks of some of them, and would probly buy one some day

[Kel]

As Lemmy once commented after he'd heard a techno remix of Ace of Spades: "Why paint a moustache on the Mona Lisa?" ;) Captive-bred hybrids aren't right or wrong, they're just not my thing.

Don't know about hybridisation of Corns in the wild, so will be interesting to see the info.

[CornCrazy]

I wouldn't think hybrids are found naturally in the wild. Most hybrids are created by tricking the snakes into thinking they are breeding with a snake of their own breed.

I personally like hybrids. The are LOTS of people who do not like them because so often they are sold as purebreds. Even though I like hybrids, I feel VERY strongly about them being misrepresented. If someone is going to get into hybrids, then ALL offspring from them need to be sold as hybrids!

[DAND]

I agree with Terri. Mutts are cool but you don't want them breeding with the Pedigree.

[JTGoff69]

I agree with Terri and Dand, but do love the albino jungles and plan on getting one someday.

[So Pirate55]

Well being someone who was not a great fan of hybrids, i have to say that my mind has changed now that i've found what i believe to be the true identity of my amel. She's still a sweetheart though.

[Buschjs]

I am neutral on the subject. My first "corn" was sold as pure, but ended up being a creamsicle. It really didnt effect my opinion on that specimen. It is still one of my favorites in my collection. My creamsicle is my most aggressive feeder, he will take anything anytime very aggressively. He is also much larger than any of my corns, and I suspect he will continue to grow.

I would not hesitate to buy another hybrid if I liked the looks of the animal.

Heres a question: How much bigger will a 50% emori creamsicle get than a pure corn?

Justin

[Joejr14]

I am neutral on the subject. My first "corn" was sold as pure, but ended up being a creamsicle. It really didnt effect my opinion on that specimen. It is still one of my favorites in my collection. My creamsicle is my most aggressive feeder, he will take anything anytime very aggressively. He is also much larger than any of my corns, and I suspect he will continue to grow.

I would not hesitate to buy another hybrid if I liked the looks of the animal.

Heres a question: How much bigger will a 50% emori creamsicle get than a pure corn?

Justin

Well, a creamsicle would be 75% corn.....and I've never really heard that creamsicle's get bigger than normal corns. :shrugs:

[CornCrazy]

Well, a creamsicle would be 75% corn.....and I've never really heard that creamsicle's get bigger than normal corns. :shrugs:A good creamsicle is 50% corn and 50% emoryi, Joe. You only have to breed 2 "rootbeer" corns het creamsicle to get some that are 50/50.

I haven't heard of them being bigger than corns, either.

[Missy]

ooh this is interesting, i have recently had a discussion on this, although it didnt end well i was kinda labeled irresponsible,

you see, my male (caramel) and female (amel) bred accidently (thought they were both female) 2 years ago, i kept one of their offspring and sold the rest to a local reptile shop.

about a year after they bred and i had already sold the rest of the offspring i found out that my male was actually a cross bred between a normal cornsnake and ratsnake, ahhhh! and i sold the hatchlings as i thought they were purebreds, wow, i got an a**kicking from some people about that from this forum as well. but anyways, so now the baby i kept is a normal bybrid het amel, i wasnt very happy that my male wasnt a purebred (caramel i was told) but i certainly wouldnt change him for the world, hes lovely and so dosile, i did always wonder why he had actually grown 5 foot 12 inches though, i just thought damn hes big for a corn, lol

anyway i personally havent got a problem with hybrids although now i know what exactly my male is, IF i do decide to breed him again i will certainly let peeps know that he is a hybrid.

though id add a pic of him, hes gorgeous!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/galaxy20/pets/gorgeousscales002.jpg

:D

[chausies]

missy, how did you eventually find out that he was a hybrid? I'm wondering because it was so long after you aquired him. Also, what kind of ratsnake is he supposed to be hybrid with?

Anyway, I also feel that as long as hybrids are properly labeled, there is no harm in having or breeding them. I see them as the next step towards "domestication" of snakes.

I never found hybrids very interesting until recently, I bought a pair of albino jungle corns and fell in love. Their personality is just great (kind of like a corn) but their look is gorgeous and unique. Those 2 prompted me to buy a few more hybrids, jungle corns and milk/corns and one king/milk. I have one really interesting F2 jungle corn from Bill Gillingham. This little girl is built and acts like a cornsnake, but has black and yellow markings (her saddles are black, her background color is a nice yellow.) The milk/corns came from Loren Zuck, one has mostly the coloration of a milk and has more of a milksnake-looking head, the other looks halfway between milk and corn in coloration with a cornsnake build and personality. They are awesome snakes. They cannot take the place of my pure corns, but they are like having a different "breed" and loving both types. (I love the looks of some kings and milks, but I like the more outgoing personality of the corns.)

charlene

[cka]

Missy, would you mind when you can taking a few more pics of him?...especially a belly shot, and maybe some pics of his offspring?...There are corns that get BIG, and maybe there was a miscommunication between the original exporter and importer...I think as the popularity of North American colubrids continues to grow oversea's an international "acceptance" of names for morphs, and other rat snake species and their morphs, needs to be clarified

[Missy]

missy, how did you eventually find out that he was a hybrid? I'm wondering because it was so long after you aquired him. Also, what kind of ratsnake is he supposed to be hybrid with?

i bought him from a place about an hour away from me,called aquatics, my aunt had recently been there buying some more fish, and she was saying they no longer sold snakes there anymore as they were not keeping them very well and they were not looking after them properly so they were not allowed to sell them anymore, i thought this was interesting as its where i bought my male, scales, so i took a visit there myself and spoke to one of the managers about what had happened and told him about a caramel male corn i had purchased from his place about 4 years beforehand, he was saying that he had never had caramels and i was like "thats weird", anyways when i bought him from there i had to fill in my name and address and all that, he went back through all his papaerwork in 1997, the year i bought him and found my details, coz i got a copy and the shop kept a copy and thats where it actually stated he was a normal x ratsnake and i was like, "but they said he was a caramel!" i wasnt too pleased with them, all the manager could then do was alopogize for whoever told he me he was a caramel but thats how i found out about it, then i thought back to a year before when i sold his offspring, i was like "oh crap!" you know. it sucks when peeps lie to you about what morph they actually are, i felt bad for the reptile place i sold the hatchlings too. but nothing i can do now im afraid.

[Missy]

Missy, would you mind when you can taking a few more pics of him?...especially a belly shot, and maybe some pics of his offspring?...


heres a few piccies of my baby, diaga, 2 1/2 years

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/galaxy20/diaga-7oct04.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/galaxy20/diaga_2yrs.jpg

an underbelly shot of diaga

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/galaxy20/diaga_25jul04_002.jpg

and a few more of scales

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/galaxy20/newcam008.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/galaxy20/scales00219aug04.jpg

head shot of scales

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/galaxy20/scales3aug04.jpg

i havent got any underbelly shot of scales just yet, will post some when i do soon
:D

[howiet4702]

Very nice snakes Missy!

[chausies]

it was great that there were still records after that amount of time, and accessable. I would assume that most shops would tuck old records away somewhere that they would not have ready access to them and only go through the trouble to dig them out if the IRS or USDA was at their door.

Well, I am sorry to hear that you had a disappointing discovery. He is a nice looking snake, and the baby you have is adorable. But inevitably, this just demonstrates why it is important to buy breeding stock from reputable breeders (rather than pet shops who may not even know what they have.)

I just want to comment about the other thread where you feel that you were "labeled irresponsible" and "got an a**kicking from some people about that from this forum." I read that thread and I think that I took your initial post the same way that others did, it appeared from your post that you knew that the snake was a hybrid and just did not think to tell the shop owner that bought the babies from you. I believe that you said something to the effect of "oopsy." The people that posted irritated messages to your post were probably under the same impression that I was (though I refrained from posting anything.) Had you stated the info that you just posted BEFORE you said that you sold babies from that male then you likely would have gotten a different reaction (from most, perhaps not all.)

Anyway, it is possible that even if you had informed the pet store that the snakes had ratsnake in them that they would have been sold as "pure corn" since they do look pure corn (the baby from you male does at least) and most pet stores don't bother with "peddly naming convections" unless it ups the dollar amount of the animal. In fact, I believe that there have been a few cases that people purchased "cornsnakes" from a pet store only to later be told by cornsnake breeders that snake is NOT a corn! And in a few cases, the "cornsnake", which was actually a ratsnake, had been bred to a cornsnake and produced babies (originally believed by the snake owner to be "pure corns" and now known to be hybrids.") What a confusing mess! Again, this is why it is best to buy breeding stock (or pets destined to become breeders) from a reputable breeder (or I suppose a reputable "dealer" that knows the stock they sell.) JMO

take care,
charlene

[Missy]

lol chausies,
i am so slapping myself right about now, i hadnt re-read my original post, damn, now i see what everyone was going on about, it does seem that way, doesnt it? i would edit my post but i cannot edit for some unknown reason, blasted pc, always giving me problems, anyways i know what you mean though about peeps selling hybrids off as purecorns, thats for sure, i wouldnt do that though as i know what it feels like to believe one thing then being told another. it sucks! thanx for your reply.

[JTGoff69]

I no longer am wanting for an albino jungle! My son bought me the one that SoPirate55 had in the photo gallery asking opinions on whether or not it was a hybrid. She is just BEAUTIFUL! I couldn't be happier with her. I could tell as soon as I got her home that she's got king in her, she has been soaking in her bowl for hours. My corns have never done that. She is supposed to be ready to shed too, so that makes sense. Very sweet personality to boot, she is just sitting there watching my cats watch her, too funny! :crazy02:

[CornCrazy]

Will you post pics of her? I have seen some pics, but I wanted to see closer ones of her head.

[JTGoff69]

I sure will Terri, as soon as Spirit finishes tutoring me on the micro function of my camera. I have never been able to get shots like you guys do. :cry: I will tell you though, she has absolutely no neck at all, kinda like the bodybuilders you see whose necks are all muscle. Believe me, when I get this pic thing down, you will probably groan and say...."Not another one!" LOL

[CornCrazy]

Thanks! Pirate sent me pics to ask my opinion. I told him that the snakes color reminded me of my creamsicle Okeetee. That's why I wanteds better pics of her head.

And we will never tired of seeing AWESOME pics!

[So Pirate55]

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17251


heres a few pictures of her from the thread i made. Jenny, glad to see that you are pleased. It was great meeting you as well.

[CornCrazy]

Thanks Pirate! Her head does look like she is crossed with a king snake. Thanks for posting the link to that thread. I had somehow missed it before!

[JTGoff69]

Pleased isn't the word Pirate, ecstatic is more like it! LOL She is snuggled in on the warm side snoozing as we speak. Terri, I'm sorry, I could've linked you to that thread, I thought you had seen those. If this is what she looks like before a shed I can't wait to see her afterwards! :crazy02:

[So Pirate55]

she's bright, trust me. I think the best way to describe her blotches would be to call them "blaze orange" kinda like the hunting hats.

[JTGoff69]

Can't wait to see it! Just wanted to let you know, she ate two nice size fuzzies tonight and is back to her vigil in the water bowl! She even went snorkling, scared me to death, I pulled her head out of the water after 60 secs or so, and she just looked at me like "what'd you do that for?" and went back to swimming. She is comical! LOL

[So Pirate55]

ok jenny, you've had plenty of time. We want pictures.

[BrzlnBlader]

hybrids can be found in the wild, i have one.It looks like a cornsnake just much darker.
I have also cought a cornsnake+bended water cross.

[TrpnBils]

hybrids can be found in the wild, i have one.It looks like a cornsnake just much darker.
I have also cought a cornsnake+bended water cross.

Can you post pics?

[JTGoff69]

ok jenny, you've had plenty of time. We want pictures.

Sorry, Harry, I took some and put them on the photo gallery a while back right after her shed, thought you saw them. Here they are, the best I could do with my limited photo skills!

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17518&highlight=Peaches+shed

[Kevin S.]

I got this guy as an adult a few years back in a trade. He had an iffy personality, sometimes being a jerk and sometimes being perfectly handleable. The pictures don't show it well, but he was really gorgeous and pretty big. As I understand it, this was the result of a snow corn bred with an albino cal king. Don't know if it's an F1 or F2 though (I thought maybe the F2's expressed anerythrism making them "snows" since this one had none of the orange saddles I see in other jungles) but I guess it doesn't really matter.

[CornCrazy]

WOW Kevin! He's gorgeous!!!