I think there are too many self-made experts out there these days, and here lately they've been crawling out of the woodwork it seems. I have waited 5 hours to hopefully let my irritation diminish before posting, but it really hasn't so here I am.
And in no way shape nor form is this a personal attack, just pointing out what I think are inconsistencies and inaccuracies.
In one post you said not to house females with babies together because they can cannibalize the babies. In my years of breeding rats, I have NEVER had females cannibalize each other's babies. And the only instance of cannibalization I've ever had was with stillborn babies. From my obersvations with rats and mice, a young first time female greatly benefits from the knowledge of the older females. Sometimes instinct doesn't take hold right away, and without the others acting as midwifes, a lot of the babies would have perished.
However why separate the pregnant ones with babies from other females? Yes, a dominant female will collect another female's babies and raise them as her own. Is there any problem with this? Not in my experience. If the dominant female hadn't taken them over, they likely would have starved, as of out of 7 litters this subordinate female had, she NEVER nursed a single one. They had a very smooth running system, and I wasn't about to disturb it. From my own testing with my rats in the past, a female rat without a support network to rely on, was a very stressed individual who showed more aggression amongst her young and towards me.
But in another post on this thread, "you can house 25 females together and alternate their breeding cycles". I think more troubles would arise with continually separating them out, and adding them in, jerking their babies away...now to me, that would cause stress and behavioral problems.
While I agree with the stand point of breeding them too much can shorten their lifespans...we're primarily breeding FEEDER rodents, not show or pet rats; although some people may get into that later. By the time a female's productivity starts to decline, her babies' quality is going to go down naturally. Humans follow the same guideline. The more aged you get, the worse quality of sex cells you have to deal with and the more chance for something to go awry in the embryonic development. And with feeder rodents, by that time starts, the female is no longer of use (she has done her legacy) and is euthanized and fed off, and a replacement takes her place.
I agree with Quigs, breeding after having given birth is what they do or else they would have had their post-partum estrus LATER. Rats do as they do, they're meant for such things or else those mechanisms wouldn't exist. Just like I think the post-partum depression in human females has a function. Probably just makes them so undesireable for men to be around, she can't get pregnant for quite a while after having a baby.
Rats in general are prone to cancer and tumors from everything I've read. Bite woulds can induce a fibroid tumor to appear, and simple viruses can cause tumors. Just the luck of the draw considering how inbred rats are anymore in the pet trade. But I don't think an overbred female has any significantly higher likelihood of developing ovarian/mammary cancer than a once or twice bred female. Yes, being bred increases the likelihood of it occuring than in a virgin female. But once again, by the time that tumors start occuring the female is advanced enough in age to warrant euthanizing her anyway.
when i bred rats i would often rescue cartloads of rats from from backyard breeders who treated them no better than puppymills. atleast treat an animal with the courtesy you would allow your childhood pet.
I treat my mice and rats as pets, thank you very much.
While they (the mice) may be in a rack-style system, I don't keep them in opaque kitty litter pans cramped for room. Their tubs are clear to let light through, and they have just as much floor space as a 20 gallon long aquarium. So compared to some people who breed their own feeders, I think mine live in luxury. I give them all sorts of things to stimulate their minds, and give them occasional treats. They're only in a rack-style system because I got sick to death of cleaning aquariums out, and trying to find enough space for them in my garage was a pain in the butt.
My rats on the other hand are in a 30 gallon aquarium with branches to climb on, hay to make beds with, toilet paper tubes and Kleenex boxes to chew up and sleep in, and once again, healthy daily treats. They also get to come out and climb around on me and play on the top of their cage while I'm doing things in the garage. So while she's 2 weeks away from her first litter, I don't think she's gonna suffer all that much at all.
So you tell me, does it sound puppy-millish to you, just cause I leave them with the male for back-to-back breeding? People who've been to my house can attest to how much I dote on my mice and rats (or my pets in general).
If I'm breeding for show/pet mice and rats, then I can have the luxury of giving them 6-months off from breeding. Although in the rat and mouse world, I believe that would be half of their natural lifespan. So 6-month increments would only mean you'd get one or two litters out of them. Sounds like kind of a waste to me. By the time the second litter came around, the female would be too old to be breeding anyway.
I see nothing wrong with back-to-back breeding so long as the females are well cared for and provided with the necessary nutrition. If you're feeding them sunflower seeds and expecting them to do well, yeah that doesn't work out too good.
I use high quality lab blocks specially formulated for breeding mice and rats. It has decent nutrients and vitamins and minerals (to which I can provide detailed info on contents and dietary values).
I really don't recommend anyone add liquid vitamins to their water. Its very easy to over-dose on common vitamins, and it really encourages bacterial growth inside their water bottles which can further cause illness. Talk to any veterinarian, and they'll say the same thing concerning rodents and birds (to which liquid vitamins are commonly sold for adding to water).
Anyway, I'm not knocking on your "experience", but seeing as you're only 20, I'd have to think that your experience would still be growing yet, not finished. But I really think there are better ways to get your points across without acting as "know-it-all #2" around here. There are plenty of people with as much experience as you are old, and I think even they would admit that they're still learning and don't claim to know everything. There are different strokes for different folks, so your way isn't the best for everyone. It may work for you, but the rest of us want to feed our snakes...not play patty-cake with our feeder rodents.
