Poking his head out

[cowboyman13]

Under or actually in the door frame leading to my group of aparments is a snake that is solid black on top with a white belly that seems to have the same markings as my corn on bottom. His chin is an orangish white and he is about the size of my 16" corn in diameter.

He keeps poking his head out and i have not been able to get him to come all the way out of his hide. I am wondering if you guys had any idea what he might be.

[herplover]

it sounds like hes probably a black rat but i might be wrong

[mbdorfer]

No Black Rats in Florida. Most likely a Black Racer, they normally have a whitish throat, although I honestly can't remember what the ventral looks like
:shrugs:

[cowboyman13]

mbdorfer
Yeah thats what it most looked liked when i looked it up online except the checker pattern on the white belly. Thats the part that has me stumped.
I will keep me eye out for it again its bound to come around again.

[mbdorfer]

Yeah, that is strange. After a little research, I found that the racers ventral is normally solid grey. Of course, with the increasing amount of herp lovers around here, it could be an escapee. :shrugs:

[cowboyman13]

You could be right. It is an apartment complex so that could most definitely be possible.

[cowboyman13]

I walked out on the patio to find two of them sunning on it. I managed to keep up as they found a hide and snapped a couple of pics. There where two of them in there alltough this picture only shows the head of one clearly.
After looking up the belly pattern in my feild guide im thinking black kingsnake.

[mbdorfer]

That head sure looks like a racer

[cowboyman13]

Youre probably right. The feild book i have dosent show the head on the black king. The head does look like a racer. Its just those black checker patterned blotches on the white belly that looks diffent. They are big and bold. All the pics i have of racer looks like thay have a grey belly. We will go with racer unless i can catch one of them and get a good shot of the under carriage. :)

[CrazyCorn]

Trust me that is a racer, out of the maybe 300 or so I have caught in the field trust me their bellies are not always the same, I have found so far the following colors: Blue, White, Grey, Speckled, and yes blotched, including mixes of two sometimes.

[corncrazy008]

Crazycorn is right, racers have lots of variation and it does look like one. Racers are very cool IMO. I would suggest moving it to a better location though, it might get squashed by cars leaving or be killed by scared neighbors.

[knox]

Just for comparison, here is my Black King. He has markings on his lower jaw, it is not a solid color like the racers. This shows a good pic of his belly :

http://www.freewebs.com/knoxvillef4i/bayslither.JPG

http://www.freewebs.com/knoxvillef4i/king605.JPG

[Joejr14]

Just an FYI, but the only kingsnakes found in Florida are Lampropeltis getula floridana (Florida Kingsnake) and Lampropeltis getula (Eastern Kingsnake). There are no Lampropeltis getulus niger found anywhere near Florida.

As has been stated, I would be very surprised if that is anything other than a Coluber constrictor priapus, or a southern black racer.

The only solid black snakes in Florida are black racers, indigo snakes, black pine and the occasional cottonmouth.

[cowboyman13]

I was in ande's pet shop over at the mall and they had a black racer for sale 15 bucks. It confirmed what yall have been saying it could be the twin of the ones out behind our apt. It had a solid white belly just like the ones at the house. Thanks for the clarifaction yall. I am still figuring out this Feild Guide.

Joe i have seen more cottonmouths since i have moved here than in any other state i have lived in. Prime habitat. We even had two come by the job trailer a little while back. We had run them out when we started the reclaim of the swamp area. They relocated from one side of the site to the other.

[mbdorfer]

Yeah, there's plenty of cottonmouth's around here! In 33 yrs. I have never seen one that appeared black though. Always the pattern has shown through. I know the black ones are out there, might be a locality thing.

[Joejr14]

You are right, the pattern usually does show through, but at a quick glance I think many would mistake this for being solid black.

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herpetology/fl-guide/kkrysko-Apiscivorus.jpg

[Joejr14]

I am still figuring out this Feild Guide.

Cav just suggested the other night that I pick up Tennant's Florida Field guide. I ordered it last week, hopefully it'll be here by next week since I'll be gone from Wed-Tuesday.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1589790448/snakesofflori-20/002-4564375-6351207

[Standard]

Joe, if the guide gets your stamp of approval, let me know. A girlfriend of mine live out past Geneva withe 15 acreas of nothing but horse trails...

[Joejr14]

Joe, if the guide gets your stamp of approval, let me know. A girlfriend of mine live out past Geneva withe 15 acreas of nothing but horse trails...

I shall.

It's supposed to be sent out by today at the latest, so I doubt I'll get it before Wed when I leave. I'll be back up here next Tuesday, so give me about two days and I'll give you my opinion on it.

[cowboyman13]

I am using the audobon spelling? reptile guide. It has all the reptiles of north america i think. I will double check the name when i get home. What other ones would you suggest.

[Joejr14]

I am using the audobon spelling? reptile guide. It has all the reptiles of north america i think. I will double check the name when i get home. What other ones would you suggest.


That's the only problem with reptile guides for the entire country. You see something you looks like something you just saw, yet you find out it's native to the complete opposite end of the country.

Here's a good website for Florida snakes.

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herpetology/fl-guide/fl-snakeslist.htm

[mbdorfer]

I have Tennant's Florida guide and it is without a doubt the best book on Florida snakes that I have seen. I need to get a copy of his Texas guide, as CAV says "if you like alterna, it's a must" :cheers:

[Joejr14]

I have Tennant's Florida guide and it is without a doubt the best book on Florida snakes that I have seen. I need to get a copy of his Texas guide, as CAV says "if you like alterna, it's a must" :cheers:

Well, is it going to tell me where to go in the ANF and how to catch some snakes? :)

[mbdorfer]

Not exactly, but there is a detailed section on each type of habitat found in the state along with the abundance of species found in them. There is also a chapter called "Paradise Almost Lost" which details the way field herping USED to be in Florida.

[CrazyCorn]

No one in their right mind would mistake a black racer for a cottonmouth, LOL they are even easy to tell apart from water snakes. The Adubon sucks, use Tennant's. If you have any questions about native snakes you can always ask me :) I can ID 98% of the snakes in Florida.