Whats with the outside of cage stuff?

I have long wondered why people use the reason "So he won't think my hand is food everytime I open the cage" for feeding outside the cage?

I myself fed in a different container but this is only because I can make sure no aspen gets in the mouth, and I can watch them eat easier! This I believe is the REAL reason for out of cage feeding.

I have talked to a couple professional breeders of other snakes, not corns though, and so far almost everyone I have talked to said its balony that the snake will be less likely to bite/aggresive if fed out of cage, and they all fed inside cage.

I myself have thought about this a long time. And my thoughts are this....if you reach in everytime to pick him up and put him in a feeding tub, is that not the same exactly thing as saying they will get used to eating in the cage? Won't they just think you are taking them out once again for feeding? And besides this, if a cornsnake keeper feds his snake once per week say, but changes water twice a week and holds the snake three times a week do you really think <u><b>1 out of 6</b></u> times will really honestly make the snake think he is getting fed every single time you open the cage? From the responses I got from some long time herpers, it seems feeding out of cage was a past-time and not many of them even do it anymore. And if they do its not for the reason that most people claim, the aggresive thing. Its for substrate reasons.

I purchased two adult cornsnakes, who had never been handled for pleasure and 1 snake have been fed in enclosure for two years, one for three years. Niether of these snakes thinks I am going to fed him everytime I open the cage. Neither one. So I started feeding my Anery 01 in cage, and still same result. None of the three are "aggresive" and I use the schedual above. Hold them about three times per week, water changes twice, feeding once.

Any thoughts guys?

Hmm. I never put much thought into it, i did what i was told like most other people.. Good question though..

No one told me to feed outside the cage when I got my first corn, so I always fed in the cage. I have never once been bitten, and no snake has shown me any agression. If the only reason you ever reach into the cage is to feed, then maybe you would encounter the problem that is so talked about. Personally, I use a pair of tongs to feed. I suppose I could do an experiment and put the tongs in without a rodent, and see if my snake tries to bite them... somehow I doubt it.

yeah

My thoughts exactly. If we or I use tongs to fed (which I do) and I am only feeding 1 out of every approx. 6 times I open the cage per week, it makes the whole thing seem irrational.

I think its an old myth in most cases, but I am sure it could be true for some snakes. Or else where would they have come up with something like that *LOL* ??? (they being the herpers before us!)

bmm

Yes I would think that its a old myth... but some people seem to only take time out of their lives to feed their snake... if the snake only associates the opening of the cage and food together then they could become more aggressive... of course more realisticly I play with my corns all the time... so they cant associate the opening of the cage with being fed... the only time they think their getting fed is when They see that fat f/t mouse bouncing around!!! Ive been doing this the whole time ive kept corns... and I havent been bit 1 time... most BIG breeder would have a hard time in feeding their corns in a separate container since they have hundreds of corns!!! even with 18 corns I couldnt take the time of day to feed them all in a separate container

I drop the mouse in, make sure they eat it, then give them a couple days rest.

When I come home from the mouse store when its time to feed, my corns are already realizing what is going on. They can smell a mouse a mile away (expression). I really don't think it would matter if they were brought out to some other container or not. When I get the box out of the white paper sack and I start wrestling with the little flaps on the mouse box, they're ready. Just like a cat, a dog, and just like my fish. My big tiger Oscar can see me undoing the ziplock on the orange bag and he goings crazy. And only on that style of bag.

Never gave it much though till now....but I wonder if seeing the big white paper bag triggers the olfactory senses to a "wide open" mode. OR they can smell a mouse in the vicinity, no matter what its in, before I even start to unpackage dinner. I'm leaning towars the latter.

Geez I'm getting the munchies now!

My 500th Post!!

If you only ever open the cage for feeding than the snake would get to know the procedure. However, if you used another container for feeding and also handled the snake regularly then it wouldn't, IMO. Too many respected herpers have given this advise for it to be dismissed.

Well I dont know about the "smell" of the mouse... since My corns are usually still under their hides when I put the mice in their container... I also keep mice in my room (something I have to change since they stink!) and the mice and the snakes are in the same room... you would think that this would cause the snakes to be more aggressive since they smell their food all day long... but I have had NO and I stress NO problems with my corns at all...

Good point Jr, but maybe they are so used to the scent of a mouse that having one nearer the tank wouldnt elicit much of a response. I dunno, maybe its the unbagging and unboxing of the mouse because they sure seem to know something is up. I do handle them, not every single day, but regularily....like about 5 or 6 days a week.

Which reminds me: When I first bought the rat X corn snakes (2), the pet store guy said that he put SOMETHING in with the eggs, like something that was scented like mice....the purpose being, so they "knew" what to eat when they were ready to feed after being born. They have always been really "bonkers" about mice/feeding time. Has anyone heard of doing this to snake eggs? (I know probably a question for another forum)

I'm sure I've heard of someone on a forum who dabbed a bit of "Mouse Maker" scent on each of the eggs. I think the reasoning was that both parents had been really picky eaters, preferring anoles to mice. The idea was that the embryos got used to the smell of mice as they developed and ate them from the start. Sounds odd, but the person doing it reckoned it worked.

Cheers
Kel

i think

Feeding outside of cage is a VERY good way to fed snakes. But frankly, I laugh when the person telling someone to do it says "So your snake won't get used to it, and won't think your hand is food and bite you or act aggresively"

If you are practicing good cleaning with your snakes, which means changing water a couple times per week, and you are holding them which means taking them out, its frankly ridiculous to tell people that once out of a half dozen or dozen times per week that you are actually feeding in cage, coule cause your snake to think its food every single time. And I don't know any respectable herper or breeder who would give this advice, and honestly, most have given me the oppisite saying its a total joke to think they would actually have time to remove each snake from tank to fed, and they have no problems handling or putting hands in when they have too.

I think if anything like others have mentioned, its the smell, not the fact that one time per week you have a mouse, and from then on the snake believes you do everytime.

I was just curious why people even still use that reason. I personally give and would rather see people use the substrate reason as it's actually a proven reason, not just a "maybe"

bmm

I do it with 2 of my snakes because one only eats brained pinks and she drags the pinkie around and gets blood all ov er the paper towels. So I just feed her on the table or countertop.
Another one of my snakes likes to drag his mice into his hide and then eat them there, getting aspen on them in the process. (The f/t mice are kind of wet)
It's not really a hassle for me to feed them on the floor or table and it's a way for me to handle them a little bit every couple of days as opposed to just dropping the mice in every x days.

I

Can still take time to fed mine outside as well...I only have 9 snakes but man could you imagine trying to take out each and every one in a collection of hundreds or more? *LOL* I can't wait for that day actually, it will mean I have TONS of corns!

bmm

I use feed boxes. Here is my explanation.

There is no substrate for the snake to accidently ingest when you feed them in a seperate container.
The snake recognizes the feed box and goes into "feed mode". As soon as the snake goes in the box, it knows it will eat. The box still has the scent from the last meal and this helps triggers a feeding response when you put the food in.

Granted, using a feed box is only good for smaller colubrids, and boids. You can't use with with large boas, retics, or burms. Way to hard to move a 10 to 15 footer around at feeding time.


As far as associating the opening with food, well, if you only open the cage to feed and never for anything else, the snake is naturally going to strike out of defense since it is not used to you. As long as you handle it regularly and don't make a SFE, you should be able to feed in the cage without problems.

Just watch that the substrate doesn't get accidently ingested.

SPJ, You have some really good points thanks!