Venom and digestion
Many of the self proclaimed venom masters (i.e. rednecks who like hot snakes because they are cool) claim that taking the venom out destroys the animal. I do not buy into this.
I have kept HOTS for years and worked with them for my B.S., M.S. and now in my PhD. NONE of these are venomoid. I have also worked at a nationally ranked zoo where NONE of those snakes were venomoids. Furthermore, in my personal collection, I currently care for more HOTS than I do venomoids and am proud to say I've never been bitten by a HOT or venomoid. So....before I get the typical hate mail associated with venomoids, I want to assure those reading this that I have plenty experience with hot snakes and do not use venomoids because I am afraid of a HOT snake. I use them for an extra layer of safety when speaking in public. In addition, if I felt that this type of surgery had any negative effect on the snake I would not employ it.
All that being said, I hope the cornsnake community is a little more mature and educated and I will therefore continue and respond to the following:
CornCrazy said:
He said he has seen the venom glads removed, and that it alters the appearance of the snakes. Is there a more current procedure that does not affect the snake's appearance?
There are two major ways of doing the surgery. Remove the glands and ducts, or ligate (cut) the ducts only and leave the glands. In theory, if the duct is cut then no venom can go from gland to tooth. (In theory, however, people can not make babies after having 'tubes tied' :sidestep: ). For elapids (cobras, etc.), the surgery is almost always associated with removal of the ducts and glands. The venomation mechanism of an elapid is wired in such a way that cutting the ducts only would not work well as the ducts are extremely small and in some species, non-existant. In viperids (rattlesnakes, etc.), often times only the duct is cut and the gland is left in place.
For any snake where the venom glands are removed, there can be deformation of the head. One is removing a large gland and there will be a gap. If the surgery is done on young animals, the animal grows without the glands and there is not as much a void as if the surgery is done on an adult. Also, if the gland is removed, some vets will put implants in to mask the removal of the glands, some will not. I've seen snakes with both. That being said, this small deformation does not seem to cause the snakes any behavior problems as they act the same as before the surgery. In snakes where just the duct has been cut, there is virtually NO indication of such a surgery. I have snakes that you will only know have had the surgery if I tell you.
CornCrazy said:
Also, how does it affect their eating behaviors? I mean...a cobra kills its prey with venom. If the snake can't inject venom, then it's prey won't die and the snake can't eat it (can it?). Do they eat F/T?
All my snakes that were venomoid were fed on F/T (frozen thawed) rodents for 6 months prior to the surgery to ensure that they would readily take that as a food item. (Some people do NOT do this and grab a wild caught snake and do the surgery and try to make a quick buck. Obviously you will then have a problem). As a routine, I feed all my snakes F/T but occasionally my rattlesnakes like the live. It sometimes takes a while to get a snake on F/T and anyone who has raised corns knows that some just prefer live as well and take time to switch over. Other snakes are the same way.
desertanimal said:
I've also seen it proposed that the venom serves a digestive function and that, even if the snake is fine with f/t, it may not be in the best interest of the snake to be de-venomed. But I doubt there has been any experimentation in that regard. Has there?
Many anti-venomoid people use this as a reason why snakes should not be venomoid. In my opinion, this does not make any sense. Almost every major zoo in the country feeds F/T to their snakes...venomous included. At the zoo I worked at, we had snakes (Gaboon vipers, eyelash vipers, mambas, king cobras etc.) that ate frozen thawed for many years without ever having a live meal. They lived normally, digested normally, and reproduced normally. Although venom does digest the animal a little, I do not think it is significant enough to change the digestion of the meal as a whole. Then again, I am not a vet nor have I read any experiment proving or disproving said statement. All I can offer is the reality that many zoos and privates feed frozen thawed almost exclusively. I have a HOT canebrake that I've had for 8 years and it rarely eats live. 99% of the time I feed it F/T and it is one of the larger canebrakes I've seen in captivity. This guy eats large rats and probably could take small rabbits. I also have a prairie rattlesnake that I've had for 9 years and it eats exclusively F/T with no apparent ill effects. Perhaps there is some effect of not using the venom and picking the prey item up off the ground but I would think that zoos and other institutions would have seen the supposed 'negative' effects of such a behavior. :shrugs:
There are many problems associated with venomoids and here are a few major ones:
1) Inexperienced people get a hold of one and do not respect the animal. They put it around their neck and walk in the local park. Snakes on an idiot so to speak. The stereotypes will not lessen when some mother is pushing her baby in the stroller and a kid walks up with a cobra. This is why you will never see me do a public performance with a venomoid snake and treat it any different than a hot snake. I do not free handle it, wrap it around my neck or anything else foolish like that. I use tongs and hooks and handle it as if it were venomous and like I said above, I've never been bitten by a hot or venomoid snake.
2) Inexperienced idiots attempt the surgery to make a snake more expensive. "Hey Bubba, want to take the venom out of this snake. I'll hold it you get a knife." This often results in butchered animals, incorrect surgeries and eventual death for the patients. The animals that do live are then sold to people dumber than the 'surgeons' whereupon they do said stupid stuff referenced in problem number 1.
3) Good surgeons can make mistakes. Remember my 'tubes tied' comment above? There are a number of people walking this earth today that should not be here because a doctor fixed their father or mother. Guess not :grin01: Same goes with this surgery. Even the most experienced person could make a mistake. This is a not much of a problem if you use proper handling of a venomous snake, but as reference in problem 1, not everyone does that. For example, I was at a show in SC where someone had a venomoid cobra and this person was free-handling it before the show. Well, said free-handled cobra bit said person and the arm swelled a little. Improper surgery...maybe :shrugs: Improper handling? Definitely! So, mistakes can be made. (On that note, I do check my snakes for the effectiveness of the surgery every three months just to make sure. So far, no problems.)
With everything I have said I do not want it to be gathered that I am a proponent for everyone to go out an get a venomoid. Far from it. I believe there is a time and place. I've had kids get on stage with me while I am handling said animals. Fortunately, when I stop the talk and ask the parents of said kid to get off the stage it usually happens, but no one knows for sure said kid would not have gotten too close.
Although there are problems with venomoids, I am MORE worried about the mass of inexperienced people buying or owning hot snakes. In SC, you can buy hot snakes at a show. All you need to be is over 18 years old. That's it!
So...to wrap up....if you are 18 you can fight for your country, smoke cigarettes, vote, and buy venomous snakes....
.....but you can't drink! :crazy02:
Go figure.
