Underestimating snakes?

I am not arguing with any of the information others who are more experienced than me have posted, more about the ability of the snake.

I have been reading many posts saying the temp has to be about 85 in the hot end, 75 in the cool end. Okay fine. Setting up a thermostat/rheostat is one option. But when reading The Corn Snake Manual , I came across some more information. In the manual it says that when using an overhead light, the temperature underneath the light should be about 95 degrees. This is obviously higher than what most others are suggesting is optimal. Their reasoning is that "This slightly 'too hot' spot allows the snake to thermoregulate properly to reach the temperatures it desires or needs, but also lets it move away from it when warm enough just as it would do in sunslight."

So my understanding of this is that the snake is able to tell when it is warm enough and will not just sit under the too hot section and burn itself. As long as the temperature is not unreasonably hot of course.

The only reason I could think of that a strict 85 degrees would want to be enforced would be if there was not a hide in both the cool and warm sides, in which case I understand snake behavior to be that it will sacrifice an ideal temperature for safety under a hide. But if both are offered, does it matter if the temperature fluctuates slightly?

When using an UTH, I would think that the same idea would apply. I think a snake would just not sit and burn itself if a spot is too hot. Especially when there are other optional places to hide.

Again I am not trying to spread false information. I am merely just making discussion on the board. If I have any of my information incorrect please correct me. But I am curious about why there seems such a big focus considering in my corn snake book by Bill and Kathy Love they barely focus on a thermostat or rheostat as a necessity. It just seems like most people here are saying that it is very important to have one of these temperature control items. I agree that a thermostat and rheostat would be optimal, but is it absolutely necessary? I monitor my temperatures with and indoor/outdoor digital thermometer with a probe.

does it matter if the temperature fluctuates slightly?

Click to expand...

NOPE! But 85 is a temperature that most corns do well with and is a good goal to aim for. Corns can actually be healthy at a wide variety of temperatures. A thermal gradient is ideal, but many people have raised their corns without one. If you wnt to imitate nature a little bit, you need to provide multiple microclimates--different temps, different humidities, places to hide...

Thing about corns is that there are many ways to successfuly keep them; not everything has just one right answer, which is why these forums are great; you can read what other people do & what works for them & what doesn't & decide what sounds logical to you.

I think a snake would just not sit and burn itself if a spot is too hot.

Click to expand...

They could and many have. It is my understanding they they don't have heat receptors in their skin, so they would not move until their core body temperature is up. By then, they may already be burned. That is why a thermostat or rheostat is recommended for UTHs. Many can get to 115+.

As already mentioned, corns are usually quite hardy and can often make do with a variety of environments. I feel that the more variety of microclimates available to them, the more they can choose their needs under different circumstances, including times of hunting, digesting, resting, shedding, and maybe even trying to get over illness. For the most part, low to mid '80s during the day and somewhat cooler at night will be great. But if you are able to offer more choice, that is even better.

If your corn is well established, and as long as it is not suffering from any kind of unusual stress or illness, you would be surprised at the fairly extreme conditions it can tolerate. But of course, we always want to provide more than the minimal acceptable conditions if we can.

I think a snake would just not sit and burn itself if a spot is too hot.

Click to expand...

There are plenty of posts around the Internet about snakes which have sustained horrible burns by sitting on unguarded lightbulbs for long periods of time. Their nervous systems just don't react in the same way that ours would. If you or I touched a hot bulb, we'd flinch away immediately. A snake can't seem to sense intense heat in the same way and won't react to protect itself because it doesn't recognise that there's a problem.

When you think about it, in the wild they'd be very unlikely to come into contact with any object that's over 100 degrees. The way I figure it, they just aren't evolved to react to the kind of intense heat sources that we use in captivity. Being as how we can't trust them to look after themselves, we have to make sure that we protect them.

When I started out years ago, in my isolated innocence, I used UTHs without thermostats (those were the days when UTHs were new and the appropriate stats were still being developed). But having said that I also had Corns Snakes that lived in the cool third of their vivs! I also had a couple of UTHs overheat to the point where their plastic coating melted - I was lucky to find them before they caused harm to the snake or a fire. All my UTHs are on stats now and I have to say, I wouldn't use one without again.

bitsy said:

When you think about it, in the wild they'd be very unlikely to come into contact with any object that's over 100 degrees.

Click to expand...

I take it you've never walked barefoot down a black top road in August in the South, then. Well over 100'. Even after the sun sets, the blacktop retains quite a bit of heat. This is why so many snakes get run over trying to soak up the heat from the roads.

As far as needing a thermostat or rheostat, I also used to use unregulated UTHs. On the substrate surface it read a perfect 85'. Upon the advice of someone from this board, I moved my thermometer probe under the substrate (which can act as an insulator) and was shocked to find the temperatures there over 130'. This will indeed burn a snake.

Now around 90-95, I don't really see as a problem as long as there are cooler spots the snake can move to. The snake may get a bit uncomfortable at these temps, but I doubt it would burn him.

I take it you've never walked barefoot down a black top road in August in the South, then. Well over 100'.

Click to expand...

LOL! I'm in the UK. If it gets over 80 degrees we start passing out from the extreme heat!

I think roads come into the "man-made and not-evolved-to-deal" category anyways. Are Corns really prone to basking on tarmac at that level of daytime heat? I'm surprised they haven't evolved into short-order fry chefs by now :sidestep:

bitsy said:

LOL! I'm in the UK. If it gets over 80 degrees we start passing out from the extreme heat!

I think roads come into the "man-made and not-evolved-to-deal" category anyways. Are Corns really prone to basking on tarmac at that level of daytime heat? I'm surprised they haven't evolved into short-order fry chefs by now :sidestep:

Click to expand...

Here, in the summertime, it doesn't even get down to 80 at night, so even though the roads cool down some at night, they still stay pretty warm.

Yes, roads are man made, but sand and rocks will also get hot enough to burn my feet. I imagine they'd burn a snake as well. I've seen several snakes in the road this year, both live and dead, and at all times of the day.