how far north?

[FlyinHerper]

How far north have you big searchers found corns? How far have you looked? I never exected to find any up here west of Phila., I mean, I have enough trouble finding Eastern Milks. But I've heard of corns as far north as NJ! What do you guys think?

[CornCrazy]

for you to catch Eastern milks, FlyinHerper? I have been searching for a pair of them. I caught one here in TN, but had to let it go because I found out it is illegal to keep wild caught animals here.

[Iris]

Yup I've heard of people finding corns in NJ, but I think it's illegal to keep corns there.

[CornCrazy]

it is illegal to keep normal corns, and it is illegal to breed corns...in case normals are produced.

[Iris]

That's right, I remember now.
Since corns are native to NJ, maybe they thought that law would prevent people from going out and catching wild ones? Who knows.
I think Georgia has a similar law, and I think someone once told me that no types of snakes are allowed in Hawaii b/c they're afraid if some get lose it'll mess up the wildlife there.
Not sure though; my memory isn't exactly reliable.

[CornCrazy]

we can have corns...we can even breed them. I have to pay $200.00 a year to import any into the state and to breed them, however. TN decided to capitalize on it. It IS illegal to catch them in the wild here, though. That goes for any indigenous species of wildlife.

[pinatamonkey]

In NJ it is illegal to keep any kind of non-albino (red eyed) corn snake...I think it says that it's "not recommended" to breed them, in case a normal popped out, but AFAIK, breeding is legal. They probably enacted the law because corn snakes are considered "endangered" :rolleyes: in the state and they want to curb collecting.

In Georgia, keeping of any type of corn snake is illegal, same with most native reptiles, except for venomous.

It is illegal to have snakes in Hawaii - they're afraid of them becoming introduced and messing with the native wildlife (like Guam - iiirc, many of the native bird species have been demolished because of the "brown snake" being introduced.

[Darin Chappell]

In MO, it is illegal to buy or sell any native species (like the black rat) or any non-native animal that is genetically the same as a native species (like the white-sided black rat). One can keep five specimens of any species (5-alive program, they call it), but no more than that! So, if I caught a female black rat to keep, that's fine, but if she is gravid, I have to release all but four of the babies once they hatch. It is also illegal to buy or sell parts or products made from parts of native species (no tanned hides), unless one has a hunter's permit and teh animal is in season at the time.

Fortunately, MO is on the west side of the Mississippi, so the corn snake is not native here. The Great Plains Rat snake is native, but I can buy, sell, and keep as many cornsnakes as I want!

:cool: :D ;)

[FlyinHerper]

hey CornCrazy,

Yeah! In PA, it's legal to keep any indigenous species of reptile in PA as long as you have no more than two of the same species. There are exceptions to this, (including, of course, Bog Turtles) but Eastern Milks are not on that list. One other thing, in PA, no one can sell reptiles indigenous to the state. So I could catch Milks, but not sell them and not keep more than two. This makes it difficult for breeding.

As far as NJ goes ... You can't keep anything! You're not even allowed to CATCH them. They have some of the most strict laws concerning reptiles. We havea running joke here, "hey you looked at a painted turtle, that's a $400.00 fine" :) Kinda stinks, especially since they have some corns. I guess it's not as bad as TN since you guys have more (and cooler) species. :)

[Rachel]

Thing is...how wopuld they know if your corn was wild caught or not? Do you have to have lisences to keep your snakes? Sorry, I might sound stupid but we don't have laws like that at all (suppose we don't really have that many snakes to catch ;) )
But it sounds really strict in NJ! I feel for you guys! I can understand how they are worried about snakes escaping and 'alien introductions' playing havoc on the native spp. but everything else is just a confusion :confused:

[CornCrazy]

we have to file "end of year" reports telling how many indigenous snakes we have, where they came from, and how many we sold. Also, whenever I bring any into the state, I have to report it to TWRA within 5 days.

[Psomion]

Well yeah, so you can't legaly sell native critters, but you also can't go above 65 miles per hour. I'm not encouraging either, but i know for a fact both are done (and one done by myself even). What these dorks in office don't get is there arn't all that many collectors because breeding is so easy. And it's the breeding that keeps the snakes plentiful. If they are worried about wild numbers stop selling farmland to apparment house people, or worse yet, those big rich people houses that 2 people live in. We are (most of us at least) naturalist and want to see wild corns (and other herps) when we walk in the woods. Just to see them is cool. People just don't understand snakes and so they miss stuff.

[Darin Chappell]

Well, that can now serve as example number 2,047 of why you can't believe everything you read on Ms. Kaplan's informational sites! Corns are NOT that widespread.

I promise you that they cannot be found in Missouri, Arkansas, Kansas, or Oklahoma, unless someone has let one or more pets loose! That's like saying that Burmese Pythons are indigenous to Idaho because the police were called to retrieve one out of a lady's rose garden once!

Please, everyone . . .Ms. Kaplan may very well be an expert in iguana care (I have no clue if she is or not, because I know squat about iguanas), but there are about 100,000 better sources from which to seek answers/information than her or her websites when it comes to cornsnakes. She really does a disservice to the whole herp community by passing herself off as an expert on every species kept by mankind. Especially when she obviously knows so little about one of the MOST understood and widely kept species of all: The Cornsnake!

:mad:

[pinatamonkey]

Really, it's not wise to rely on someone who says wild corns eat crickets - and has been for 9 years, apparently!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

OT, but: Today I was looking at some usenet archives on google.com....apparently the longest MK's kept an iguana was 6 years, and that one went blind and died of kidney failure? (post by mr. lizardlover, though, so I don't know how accurate it is)

[kenalotia]

Where does MK's con snake care sheet say to feed crickets? I was looking at it the other day (out of curiousity, not a search for info) and I didn't notice that. Strange.

I also do not use her care sheet for my iguana. However, having an ig die of kidney failure doesn't necessarily mean you took poor care of it. If the ig is a rescue, then presumably the previous care was somewhat lacking... And something as simple as being fed meat can cause an iguana to have kidney failure much later on, even if it has been switched to a good diet.

I don't say this in order to make people think that MK is necessarily a good ig-keeper or source of info on igs. I just don't want people to draw the opposite conclusion based on the kidney failure. On that note, I believe her ig care sheets are better, at least, than the corn sheets.

[pinatamonkey]

It's actually under the 'natural history' section

wild Corns start off feeding on small invertebrates and vertebrates, such as crickets.

It was slightly different before - a couple months ago it said that 'corns start out eating crickets, quickly moving up to pinkie mice'. No joke.

[kenalotia]

I see. Well, Melissa Kaplan has been known to write care sheets about several species that she's never actually kept. :rolleyes: Not exactly the best source of information. She's best known for her iguana information, though. For anyone trying to find info on igs, I recommend James Hatfield III's book, Green Iguana: Ultimate Owner's Manual.

[helenhighwater]

deleted

[Darin Chappell]

Where, exactly, did I call Ms. Kaplan anything close to a "ho" (as you put it)? In fact, the ONLY thing I did call her was a possible iguana expert. I use the modifier "possible" simply because I know nothing of iguanas, but I know she is completely wrong on several issues on her cornsnake care sheet.

[Kp&Co]

Hi All,

I've been shyly lurking for a little while now, but talk of NJ has really hit a sore spot.

You see, I have this "friend" ;) who has been quietly keeping a few corns in NJ, and has only recently woken up to the fact that she is apparently a CRIMINAL, even though these animals are in fact captive bred and hail from FL.

There is much confusion and ambiguity on this subject, but AFAIK if it resembles a wild snake, it is illegal. But because NJ is apparently too bizzy to distinguish between the various breeding morphs, a blanket rule states that all albinos - red-eyed albinos, that is - are legal, and all non-red-eyed animals are illegal. So, uh, what about my friend's "black" albino (anery), or her caramel (which I believe was developed by our good friend RichZ)??!

You would think they wouldn't bother you as long as you could prove the animals' origins - but we're trying to acquire facts through unofficial channels for fear of accidentally tipping off the snake police.

Has anybody here dealt with NJ first-hand, or have "friends" in NJ? If you're out there, I'd really like to compare notes. I'm also trying to find info on remediation/rehab programs for NJ corns - any thoughts? Thanks!

Kp

P.S. This forum is awesome!

[CornCrazy]

That could update you on all of the laws there. I actually adopted a couple of my snakes from there...one of them being an anery. The rescue is called All-Species-Reptile-Rescue (http://www.all-species-reptile-rescue.com/). I was under the impression that you just couldn't own any "normal" corns. And that no corns could be bred there just in case a normal corn was produced. Rachel should be able to help you out.

[brego]

ive found that you cant catch wild corns, but im not sure

[jjspirko]

NJ is full of morons in their government. I have friends (no quotes) that live there and keep corns and never have a problem and even normal ones. I even know some that breed them (under the table of course).

NJ law ranks up there with CA law for stupidity both as it relates to animals and other subjects like um I don't know say um gun control.

[eddie1976]

I have to agree with the former Moron post above. I just recently moved to Jersey and to be totally within the law, I am not supposed to have any black eyes morphs at all. ONly albino morphs. But that is only if you get caught. ANd on a side note, the railroad is responsible for the huge lack of corns form the south up to the jersey area. They must have stowed away and made it here. The farthest I have seen them is actually in a park in Mantua, NJ. Other thna that I Have not seen any. ANy herpers from south Jersey feel free to drop me a line.

[Krenna]

I saw a post a while back where someone had seen a Corn up here in CT.. I have yet to see them or hear about it myself.. hmm go figure :shrugs:

[cougardude]

For you PA guys As far as laws in PA what are they and where can i find them im looking into moving up there in winsdor pa in york county but if there is alot of crap i ahve to put up with than its not worth it
thanx
Adam

[So Pirate55]

anyone know the laws concerning keeping/breeding/catching corns in NC? all the pet stores around here sell them and i even see black rat snakes for sale so i'm assuming it is legal.

[Adam & Eve]

Yes, it's probably legal. I know that it's illigal in NJ and some states somewhere else... But I never have heard about NC being illigal.
Your assumption about the pet stores is probably accurate... Still, I keep a pet that they don't allow. I keep aquatic turtles which is illigal in my state. I've had policemen at my door. They've easily seen it and did nothing.