Problem getting good temps w/ UTH

So now I'm having a go with my second UTH. The first one didn't work out so well so I scrapped it and went with a moonlight bulb for heat. The moon light bulb has some pluses and some minuses. One minus being making humidity control more difficult and another being no belly heat.

I'm hoping that someone whose ambient room temperature is around 70 - 72 F, and is using a glass aquarium set up with aspen, and a UTH, and can get good temp conditions with this set up can give me some direction.

Here is my set up and what I'm observing:

10 gal glass aquarium, 8x8 Exo Terra heat wave UTH, Zoo Med repti therm 500 thermostat, 2 digital thermometers and about 1 inch aspen shaving substrate with a couple hides and plants on top.

I have the tank on a wood table with 1 inch risers to give some space between the tank and the table. The UTH is electrical taped to the bottom of the tank, plugged into the thermostat that is plugged into the wall. I have the probe from the thermostat and a probe from one of the digital thermometers right on the glass directly above the UTH and under the aspen. I have a second digital thermometer probe on top of the aspen above the UTH in close proximity to the 2 buried probes.

All of the posts I read while searching on this topic advised to regulate the UTH so that it is about 90F on the glass. This is what I did but I got unfavorable results.


I would like to set up the tank for temps about 82 - 85F on the warm side and about 74 - 76 F on the cool side. I can get this with the moonlight bulb but have to constantly work to keep the humidity up.

With my probe on the glass reading about 90 I'm only getting 74 - 76F on top of the aspen above the UTH and 70 F on the cool side with ambient room temp about 71. I dialed up the thermostat slightly to where the temp on the glass goes up to 97 before it turns off and falls to 91 and turns back on and I'm only getting 76 on top of the aspen above the UTH and 70F on the cool side with ambient room temp 71F.

These temps seem a bit low to me and having only 76 - 78F on top of the aspen on the warm side makes me nervous about regurge issues as well as the general comfort level of the snake. Would most agree?

Ambient room temperature effects the outcome because yesterday when I was trying to set it I was at 88 on the glass and getting 78 on the aspen with an ambient room temp of 74 F. I assume the UTH at 90 on the glass with my current set up would work good in summer with an ambient room temp of about 78 - 80 F.

So my question is how are you folks in cold weather states/countries getting good temps with a glass aquarium, UTH and aspen substrate? Do most folks just measure 90 on the glass and not worry about the temp on top of the aspen? I suppose I could reduce the thickness of my aspen to a quarter inch but I thought a nice 1 inch layer would be nice for the snake to dig into.

I suppose I could supplement the UTH with the bulb but then I'm back to tough humidity control.

I've also checked my thermometers by putting both digital probes on the glass over the UTH and they read the same so it's not a matter of one of the thermometers being off.

Is it possible that I have to wait several days with the glass at 90 before the aspen reaches a thermal equilibrium? I don't think that will happen but I don't know.

And finally, what is the maximum temperature I can have on the glass without having to worry about my snake getting burned. Sorry for the long winded post but I wanted to give all of the info/conditions.

I have two glass tanks with a UTH on both and thermometers with probes and I'm using a rheostat on both.
I place the probe at the same location but my temps are in 81 -85 range.
The top of bedding (aspen) temps are ...I have no clue... The cool side temps on the top of the aspen is around 70 plus. I haven't had a regurge yet. The 90 temp that you are reaching for are to high for general use. Only when you have an IR issue do you raise the temps that high.
Relax, we're talkin' corn snake here.

I have pretty much the identical setup as described, except I have ZooMed UTHs. I set the hot side to 85-86 on the glass and cool side is generally 70-73. I don't worry about the top of substrate on the warm side, I keep the aspen over the UTH relatively thin and the snake can burrow down if it needs more warmth.

Lenny,

Thanks for the reply.

Maybe I'm being a little too anal with my temps. I had one regurge a while back so I'm still a bit paranoid about it happening again. There were other factors besides temperature involved in that regurge like the snake being home only 3 days before the feeding and excessive handling.

How thick is your layer of aspen?

Actually the temp I'm aiming for is about 82 - 85 on top of the aspen where the snake is.

The 90 or 90+ temp is on the glass where I hope the snake isn't but know the snake could easily go there.

My problem seems to be that the temp on top of the aspen is a good 15 - 19 degrees cooler than my glass temp with a 1 inch layer of aspen and an ambient room temp around 71 - 72F

You think it might be ok with 76- 78 F on top of the aspen on the warm side and 70F on the cool side?

I guess I could always warm her up a little with the bulb for 2 days after feeding.

Flagg,

Thanks for the reply.

It looks like your temps are about the same range as Lenny's.

It seems like I may have to thin my aspen a bit to allow better heat transfer and cool my glass a bit.

Jack B said:

You think it might be ok with 76- 78 F on top of the aspen on the warm side and 70F on the cool side?

I guess I could always warm her up a little with the bulb for 2 days after feeding.

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MY aspen is on the heavy side. Two plus inches. My corn love to burrow.
Yes, I think you'll be OK with the top temps at 76-78 F.
Sometimes from what I read, they regurge for no apparent reason, such in your case, maybe. :shrugs: Bad mouse, Who knows.
But the general temps on the warm side are 80-85 and 70-75 on the cool side. And usually the temp reading are from the warmest spot. Above the UTH under the aspen. I haven't hears anyone reading two spot on the warm side. Mu corn tend to burrow after eatting so I think good at what I'm doing.
Also, using a lamp for a heat source tends to dry thing out (from what I read).This might be the cause of the battle you're have with the humidity.

Hey I had the same problem

I deff had the same problem. I live in montana and its bitterly cold here. My snake is in our bedroom and it doesnt stay very warm in there at all. I decided to ditch the aspen and go with paper towels (there napkins) which I actually like better. I dnt think it looks bad at all and I dnt have the issue of on the glass and on top of the aspen being different. I also had to supplement with an infrared bulb as I cant keep even the temps on the cool side warm enough without it. All i use it for is to keep a more even air temp in the tank. THe UTH actually does the majority of the heating on the warm side. I am going to buy one of the cereamic heat emitters for the tank instead when I have a few more $$$. My guy isnt looking like hes going to shed yet so the low humiditiy isnt as much of a problem right now. I also spray a water bottle in the tank a few times a day to boost humidity and am thinking about getting a snake cave. It seems to be working for me but its just a suggestion.

I live in the upper peninsula of Michigan and it gets very, very cold here. I also have pretty much your exact setup as well. The temps in my apartment stay at around 70-75 (I hate being cold) I have never really had a problem with my temps now that I got the Repto therm 500R, my main problem is just getting it adjusted properly. I don't take the temperature of the top of the aspen and I am really not very worried about it. I set my thermostat to stay at around 85-88 degrees and the air temps usually stay at around 70-75. I also have a problem with humidity because my heat is forced air and its really dry in the winter, but I just spray in the tank every day or a few times a day to help out. I think your worrying a little to much about it, your snake will go where he/she needs to to get the right temps .

Jack B said:

I suppose I could supplement the UTH with the bulb but then I'm back to tough humidity control.

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You can take a sheet of plastic and cover most of your screen top. Mist inside the tank occassionally. Misting the underside of he plastic sheet so water droplets are formed seems to keep humiditiy up well.

You could also try cypress substrate. It tends to hold moisture better than aspen.

I was having the same problem too, and I'm also being picky about temps because my juvenile just had her first two pinky meal. I live in Canada and the ambeint temp. in my house is about 70 degrees. I actually put a thin-ish peice of cardboard directly ove the spot where her UTH is to help diffuse the heat more and prevent contact burns as she's a digger lol.

Has anyhone else tried this? Or is a bad idea?

What are the temps at that spot where the UTH is?

I'm not sure if you're asking me, but I'll answer anyway

I have just built a rheostat (using the instruction here,awesome!) but I can't seem to get the temp. on the glass to less than 90. I fiddled around with the rheo. and my electronic heat probe for hours and now it stays at 83-84 under the substrate and about 75 ambient on the warm side. It seems to work, but I don't knwo if anyone else has to do this, it just seems too hot any other way.

I mean it stays 82-84 degrees on the cardboard, sorry.

aameenah said:

I mean it stays 82-84 degrees on the cardboard, sorry.

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That is the recommended temps for a corn and they can't get burnt at them temps. You do have something on the UTH to regulate it, don't you?

Good I was pretty sure that was right. I've got the UTH plugged into a rheostat but I just can't seem to get the temps low enough, always up in the 90's. I wonder if I have a faulty UTH or if they all get this hot? It's not even directly on the glass underneith, I have it stuck to another piece of glass that I slid under the tank itself. I may be paranoid, but she's just healing from some damage to her ventral scales and I don't want to take any kind of chance with her!

Thanks so much!

the problem with thermostats is that most of them are the ON or OFF type
it turns on when it's cold enough and off once it's warm enough again
back and forth

i use an in line dimmer because the temps i set are constant
once i get the dimmer dialed into the temp i want then i don't have to worry about it again, it will hold that temp constantly

aameenah said:

I was having the same problem too, and I'm also being picky about temps because my juvenile just had her first two pinky meal. I live in Canada and the ambeint temp. in my house is about 70 degrees. I actually put a thin-ish peice of cardboard directly ove the spot where her UTH is to help diffuse the heat more and prevent contact burns as she's a digger lol.

Has anyhone else tried this? Or is a bad idea?

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That's a problem I see with using a UTH as the sole source of heat in a house as cool as yours. UTHs aren't all that good at getting ambient air temperatures where they ought to be. Some people will tell you that ambient air temperatures aren't important, but that sort of flys in the face of respected authors and common sense - you don't find corn snakes in the coldest parts of the country for a reason.

I've found that if you adjust a UTH to produce an acceptable ambient air temperature, the glass temperature under the substrate and above the UTH is often so hot it can burn a snake. Lower it to 90 degrees or so, and often times the ambient air temperature will drop too much.

I recommend placing your UTH on a dimmer and placing a themometer or a probe on the glass surface. Adjust it so the glass temp is 90 degrees. Then you can supplement your heat with an overhead light. A black light bulb that can burn 24 hours a day and not disrupt the night cycle will do nicely. You will be able to achieve an acceptable glass surface temp and an acceptable ambient air temperature.

Alien Zulu said:

i use an in line dimmer because the temps i set are constant
once i get the dimmer dialed into the temp i want then i don't have to worry about it again, it will hold that temp constantly

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I agree with this wholeheartedly. I've adjusted my UTH and overhead light using a dimmer on both. I set it to produce the desired temps at mid day, when ambient air temps are their highest. The temps in the tank will drop a little at night when the temp in the house drops. I do check it frequently in case any tweaking is necessary, but that rarely occurs.

aameenah said:

I live in Canada and the ambeint temp. in my house is about 70 degrees.

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That's all you need for a corn snake.
Remember the Kiss theory.