Pine shavings ?

Have any of you ever used Pine shavings for bedding with your mice colonies ?

If so, have you had any drawbacks , using Pine shavings ? I have heard some people say that, the pine oil could cause respriatory problems with the animals. What if the shavings are kiln dried ?

Thanks, Stephen

I have used pine shavings with my hampster for years and never had a problem. In fact, the hampster lived a very long time.

I use pine shavings with the mice and have yet to have a problem.

I use pine pellets with a top layer of pine shavings for my mice and have had no issues...

Pine shavings are a highly likely cause of liver damage in small animals (no, you wouldn't see this). The respiratory infections are probably more to do with pine dust, as studies have shown elevated levels of cancer and respiratory infection and disease (and asthma) in humans who work in environments where there's a lot of softwood dust.

If other types of bedding are available, I would use them. I am not convinced that a diet full of animals with elevated liver enzymes and liver damage is a particularly healthy diet for a snake... but YMMV.

Several studies have shown that rodents kept on softwood beddings have elevated levels of liver enzymes. The liver is the body's detoxification system, and elevated liver enzymes indicate that the body is working harder to eliminate toxins. In mice these enzymes started rising after only 24 hours exposure to cedar shavings and only returned to normal when the mice were away from the shavings for 12 days. If pine or cedar shavings are heat-treated or soaked in a solvent, so that some of the phenols are removed, the effects are not as great, but still occur.

References:
Ferguson, H.C. (1966) Effect of red cedar chip bedding on hexobarbital and pentobarbital sleep time. Journal of Pharm. Science, 55 p.1142-8
Jori, A. et al. (1969) Effect of Essential Oils on Drug Metabolism. Biochemical Pharmacology, 18 p. 2081-5
Vesell, Elliot S. (1967) Induction of Drug-Metabolizing Enzymes in Liver Microsomes of Mice and Rats by Softwood Bedding. Science, 157 p. 1057-8
Weichbrod, Robert H. et al, (1988) Effects of Cage Beddings on Microsomal Oxidative Enzymes in Rat Liver. Laboratory Animal Science, 38 (3) p. 296-8

There is THIS ARTICLE that counteracts that opinion. It says that all of the research that quotes pine as "bad" for rodents is referring to the effects on labratory rodents (where they are doing drug testing).

I've used it for a very long time and have never had a problem I could link back to the bedding... I breed hundreds of mice a month on pine bedding and house all my other rodents on it as well...Keep it clean and make sure there is not to much dust and it seems to be fine..
Just my thoughts...
Ryan

I would use pine if it were significantly cheaper. Sadly, around here it does not seem to be all that much cheaper than aspen, if at all.

Maybe I just haven't found a good source for it yet.

There is THIS ARTICLE that counteracts that opinion. It says that all of the research that quotes pine as "bad" for rodents is referring to the effects on labratory rodents (where they are doing drug testing).

Click to expand...

There is quite a lot of evidence that pine shavings do cause elevated liver enzymes in house rabbits, lab mice, lab rats, and humans - plus of course some evidence of cancer and respiratory illness in humans from pine dust. Of course, this is not conclusive, but personally, I choose not to take the risk. It is completely a personal decision though - it may make absolutely no difference to snakes, but I, as someone who enjoys rodents as pets, find it an unacceptable risk for my own animals.

I have seen that article before though, I must say, and I find the arguments in less than compelling. When your main sources aren't studies that say "pine/cedar is safe" but rather sources that have done no research, then I'm not gonna put much weight on that evidence. I'd like to see some research where someone compares liver tests with rodents kept on pine vs. rodents not kept on pine where the results are that pine is fine, that would be some more conclusive evidence, I think.

Of course, my mice and rats are the same species used in lab testing. if yours aren't, then maybe it's safe to discount their reactions to irritants.

Here is a link to an article about "The Toxicity of Pine and Cedar Shavings"

http://www.ratfanclub.org/litters.html


This is just an article I found, I personally used pine for the hampster I had. I will use aspen in the future but only because I get it already for the snakes.

Huh...VERY interesting reading. I think I will be switching all of my mice over to recycled newspaper pellets...

Thanks, everyone, for the information...

I've seen and heard arguments for both sides of the bedding debate, and have used practically everything except cedar to bed my mice and rats on. Out of all the different types of bedding I have used for the mice, I really like using the aspen or using kiln dried pine if I can get it or even a mixture of both.

The reasons behind my choices? Both the aspen and the kiln dried pine do not have an aroma - not like other pine products and cedar do. When using one or the other (aspen or kiln dried) I found that both the mice and rat colonies didn't stink as bad as when I tried using recycled paper products. That is a very important factor because we have to house our colonies inside the house with us do to the extreme temps and lack of an outside building to store them in.

Cost is another factor that determines what we use. We clean out all of the cages severeal times a week - most times before there is even a noticable smell from the cage. We can purchase both aspen and pine for around the same price, but the aspen bags are usually bigger. On occassion the walmart near us stocks the kiln dried in bulk bags and we grab what we can, when we can.

The two things I'd suggest avoiding if you can:
1) Dust, the less dust the bedding has the better. Just think of it this way - If you were working (sanding, sawing, or some other dust producing activity) would be comfortable breathing in all the dust that was generated? They make masks and recommend that you do such activities in a well ventalated room or outside correct?

2) Something that is aroma free, especially if your mice or rats are housed in a cage with little ventalation. (Such as a glass tank with a screen top lid). Compare it to walking into an insense or perfume shop where the air is thick with many different scents. If your animal(s) will be housed in wire cages with plenty of fresh air or air movement, then it wouldn't be as big of a deal because the aroma will be pushed along by airflow.

That's JMO though.

Jenn