Male mouse question

Hi all,

I have a quick question about male mice in general...I always thought that male mice were indifferent if not occasionally agressive towards the babies.

My male mouse is positively maternal (paternal? lol). He's in the nest, grooming the little ones often when I check on them. Is this normal for a male mouse? He seems like a very good daddy! 13 were born and he didn't eat one! They are almost hoppers now but he seems very involved with their upbringing...

I hauled them out one by one the other day to sex them (I need to know which I can feed and which I can keep as I need more females). When I put them back, I put them straight back in the nest, mom immediately removed them and handed them over to Dad mouse who then groomed them thoroughly, mom only put them back in the nest once dad was done.

Is this normal male mouse behaviour or do I just have an exceptionally good "family man"? :shrugs: (babies are males and females)

Most of my males behave the same way in all of my colonies. The only time I have to worry about overaggressive males is when the younger males are weaned. I try to take the younger males out before they get big enough to 'threaten' the older male's women, but it's hard to catch them sometimes when you have multiple colonies.

You've got a good breeder there though, and hopefully it will pass onto his offspring!

Jenn

Thanks Jenn!

I must say I am very impressed with him! I hope it's in the genes because the mom is very sweet too and I was absolutely THRILLED when her first little with me consisted of 13 pups! Hopefully her daughters will have big litters too! lol

Sounds like a nice colony started there.

I've found that kind of behavior to be the norm with any mice or rats that I have bred. I've only once ever had a case of cannibalism and I think that was caused by moving a small colony from a luxurious 10 gal with wheel and multiple hides into a much smaller lab cage.

I always wonder at all of the posts about how you have to separate males saying they cause stress, eat babies, etc. The males help take care of the babies. The only reason to separate the male is if you don't want back to back breeding.

Sounds normal paternal mouse behaviour to me! My males all have helped to brood and groom the babies, it's lovely to hear yours is doing his job! :cheers:

it sounds perfectly normal to me. i read its actually more common for the male to look after the babies than the female. i got my colony 2 days ago and 1 is pregnant. the babies are due soon and i cant wait!!!
and tell the dad mouse i said happy fathers day (i know its a day late)

:cheers:

Yup...sounds pretty normal to me. All of my male mice and rats are extremely doting fathers that play an active role as protector and provider for the colonies. They are often the first ones to defend and guard the babies when I reach into the cages, and are commonly found either grooming the offspring(or even the mothers), or bringing food and seed into the "home" for the older offspring to eat, or for suckling mothers to eat.

I don't ever remove my males from the colony, because I WANT back-to-back litters. Much like Flagg, I strongly disagree with the often heard advice of removing males during pregnancy. I find that the males in my colonies at home, as well as at work, are all very loving and active fathers...

Thanks guys! Glad to hear my boy is normal and doing his job! lol He really does seems to fuss more over the babies than the mom does! lol

I too WANT back-to-back litters. Of course I do monitor the health of the mice at all times.

I have three rats too (1 male, 2 females) and the first female I got is due to have her first litter VERY soon (if she hasn't already, I haven't checked on them today, will when I get home after work). She is HUGE so hopefully she will have quite a few babies!

One issue you might have with the rats is the other female stealing the babies to take care of them. Just make sure they all have milk-bands and they should be fine.

Thanks!

The second female rat I bought had babies the day after I got her, so this is not my first rattie litter. When she had her babies, they all seemed to take excellent care of them! They all slept in the same nest and everything! lol I had a hard time taking babies out for feeding because there was always at least one adult rat standing guard!

One issue you might have with the rats is the other female stealing the babies to take care of them. Just make sure they all have milk-bands and they should be fine.

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Milk-bands?

Last night one of my first time mouse mommies had a small litter. It was very fascinating, what I noticed was all the females seemed to help her, they hovered around her, the male groomed her and nestled over some fuzzies in the tank. All of the females even the hopper size helped eat after-birth. It was just so interesting so watch, wish I had a video cam. susan

i love the way they are so caring and help eachother out so much. two of my mice are due any day now. i got them when they were pregnant so I'm hoping it will be very soon they are both huge. i cant wait for them to have their first litter.
i have one question. from the babies i am going to keep two or three females and 1 male (if they produce that). should i introduce them as soon as they are weaned or wait until they are 6 weeks old so they don't breed too young? don't mean to thread steal but i think it is quite relevant.

thanks

lee :cheers:

Are the two pregnant females in seperate tanks? If not my females keep all babies in same nest. In one tank I have adults, hoppers, fuzzies and newborn. If they are seprate I would put them together as soon as they are weaned, but watch for aggression. susan

they are all in the same tank at the moment. would it be ok to put the 3 females and 1 male weaners in 1 tank and put all the other males in 1 tank and all females in other tank or will males fight?.

thanks for the help!!
:cheers:

snakeboy24 said:

they are all in the same tank at the moment. would it be ok to put the 3 females and 1 male weaners in 1 tank and put all the other males in 1 tank and all females in other tank or will males fight?.

thanks for the help!!
:cheers:

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I wouldn't put 3 females and 1 male from the same litter together as a breeding colony. I would select 3 of the biggest females, and purchase a nice male from a petstore(preferably a different pet store than your original colony was purchased from), and start a colony that way. Once you have 2 colonies going with semi-different gene pools, than you can just mix and match females from one and a male from the other to create a third colony, and so on...

Oh...and your males shouldn't fight if you keep them together. They establish a hierarchy within the litter at a very young age, which prevents fighting during growth. However, make sure you don't accidentally mix in a female when sexing them, or you will have a tank full of extremely aggressive males, and one very abused female...and it can get ugly...

tyflier said:

I wouldn't put 3 females and 1 male from the same litter together as a breeding colony. I would select 3 of the biggest females, and purchase a nice male from a petstore(preferably a different pet store than your original colony was purchased from), and start a colony that way. Once you have 2 colonies going with semi-different gene pools, than you can just mix and match females from one and a male from the other to create a third colony, and so on...
Oh...and your males shouldn't fight if you keep them together. They establish a hierarchy within the litter at a very young age, which prevents fighting during growth. However, make sure you don't accidentally mix in a female when sexing them, or you will have a tank full of extremely aggressive males, and one very abused female...and it can get ugly...

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It is my understanding if you put a male in with adult females they likely will kill him. I understand what you're saying about inbreeding. I just think I would put younger mice together weanlings and really watch them.

susang said:

It is my understanding if you put a male in with adult females they likely will kill him. I understand what you're saying about inbreeding. I just think I would put younger mice together weanlings and really watch them.

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I have introduced young male mice to adult females without a problem, but that is not what I was saying. I was saying put an older male mouse in with 2 or 3 young females. And by older, I mean sexually mature, slightly larger...like a month or 2 older, not a burly old, experienced breeder.

As far as a young male with older females...it can be done. You have to watch that the male doesn't get aggressive to any pregnant females or existing offspring, and you want to be pretty sure that there aren't any litters born before the male "has a go". Females will definitely "put him in his place", and may stress him out, or they may accept him into the colony. That usually depends on how long the females have been without a male. I don't do this in my own colonies, as their are risks. But I do it regularly with the colonies we have at work. Sometimes successfully, sometimes not. You just need to keep an eye on them...

You'd be surprised what great parents domestic rodents can be. We have fostered baby chipmunks with rats. I have fostered store-bought pinkies and fuzzies in a home colony. I've introduced proven males to virgin females, and vice-versa... If you provide the essentials...food, water, shelter, healthy environment...and remove the competition for these items, you can accomplish a lot of things with a colony. A healthy and happy colony is usually fairly supportive and accepting of new members, whether introduced or born inside.

thanks for the info. i will get another male mouse from a different shop. just as a point, my colony at the moment has a younger male mouse than the females. i think he is the runt. is it still possible for him to breed or if so would he be likley to have some deformed gienes? sorry if it sounds stupi but i a bit of a novice at gienes.

thanks

lee

I never really worry about inbreeding. lab mice are inbred for hundreds even thousands of generations. I don't think it's really an issue for feeders.