What best to bred a butter to?

[scubadiver]

The butter I got that was supposedly gravid still hasn't laid yet and I'm wondering if maybe she just didn't bred or maybe she was sexed wrong. Either way what would be best from my collection to bred to her?
normal het amel
sunglow unknown hets
amel

I'm trying to catch the double clutch stage since my first trys didn't work. Not one of the three females has laid and they are way over due. All plenty plump and old enough.

[bekers71]

How long over due?

[mynamesrick]

Breeding with the normal het amel will get you 50% amel het caramel 50% normal het butter

breeding with the amel will get you 100% amel het for caramel.

and are sunglow's just really bright amels? if they are you'll get the same as above

please correct me if any of these are wrong :)

[ForkedTung]

A Sunglow is a selectively bred amel ( brighter and little to no whites). Anyway you choose you'll end up with amels, so why not breed the Sunglow and then you might find out if there's any interesting hets and also with Amels being so common, you will at least have some with striking colors hopefully.One question before you attempt to breed again: Do you have placement for all the hatchlings? Good Luck.:spinner:

[scubadiver]

The last time I put the two normal females with the males was 4/26 but I didn't see a hook up the time before that whe I thought I saw spillage was 4/10. The butter was sent to me. He said she was gravid and was bred to a hypomelanistic. He said she was due mid May but I don't see any signs of eggs no lumps though I think there is some swelling like people say shows a female is gravid but all three females are eating still and like I said no lumps.

[scubadiver]

No I don't have placement for all the hatchlings yet but I wanted to see what I got out of it. Though I have a few people waiting. Also is it to late to try to catch the double clutching time? Or do you plan that when ever after the first clutch? Thanks for any more information.

[ForkedTung]

I don't have experience with double clutches, although I have a few females that are known to and I will find out soon I hope.No I don't have placement for all the hatchlings yetThat's OK, just as long as you've put some forethought into finding or placing them :spinner:
You won't see "lumps" per se, rather a swelling along the latter third of the female akin to having eaten a rather long hot dog ( there are alot of threads dealing with what to look for here), does this make sense? Could you post some pictures? The fact that she's still eating normally ( large meals) would indicate that she's not gravid. Try introducing a male now and watch to see if they hookup (it can't hurt all she would do is reject him) especially pay close attention to her reaction.

[susang]

The last time I put the two normal females with the males was 4/26 but I didn't see a hook up the time before that whe I thought I saw spillage was 4/10. The butter was sent to me. He said she was gravid and was bred to a hypomelanistic. He said she was due mid May but I don't see any signs of eggs no lumps though I think there is some swelling like people say shows a female is gravid but all three females are eating still and like I said no lumps.

When was her last shed and when did she eat last?

[scubadiver]

All three females ate a hopper two days ago. My two normals shed was I think a month ago. The butter has been here since the end of april and still has not shed with me. I'll try to get pictures. One normal and the butter seems swollen like they say but when they move over my hand people say I should be able to feel slight lumps, I don't feel anything. I've looked at many of the threads on here and the sights I've been sent for recognizing gravid females. Somethings look similar some don't.:shrugs:

[scubadiver]

When I took these pictures I realized that My biggest and oldest normal female is now showing lumps which you can't really see in the picture so maybe she is gravid. The butter is almost as big/swollen as the gravid normal. Though my younger normal is not really swollen any more. The first two are the butter. The next two are Little Mama (The younger normal). The last is rachael (The older normal). I'll post the last picture of rachael in the next post.

[scubadiver]

Here is the last of Rachael.

[scubadiver]

I hope these pictures will help any questions you all had. I would like to know what you all think of which ones are gravid which aren't. I believe the second set of two pictures (Little Mama) is not gravid so if you think that also I might try to put her with Fox (the sunglow) again and hope it works this time. Thanks for your opinions and any information you might let me know. :)

[ghosthousecorns]

Breeding date is not an accurate way to predict the date the eggs are due, the female can retain the sperm from the breeding and ovulate later on. When the snake stops eating and goes in shed then you can prepare for eggs.
If there was already a confirmed breeding it's not a good idea to introduce a second male if you want to know which male is the father to the clutch.

[scubadiver]

Ok thanks, considering the offspring would be close in appearance I think I'll wait. I'm not sure if there was a confirmed bred with the butter since she was sent to me afterwards. What do you think about the photos?

[ghosthousecorns]

If you took a picture looking down on the snake from the top it would be easier to gauge. The entire snake needs to be in the picture. Here is a thread I just made with pics of some gravid snakes http://cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=634631#post634631

[scubadiver]

Thanks that really helped by that I think my older normal and butter are gravid.

[scubadiver]

so i guess all three of my females either didn't breed or absorbed the eggs. so i guess ill try some late breedings after the females shed. thanks for all the info and hopefully this time works.

[Drewby07]

Just out of curiosity, what are the weights on the females? They seem somewhat small, but it may be the camera angle. Also, have you put a laybox in with them just in case?

[scubadiver]

yes all three have had a moist lay box even while i was trying to bred them just so they could feel comfortable. They are all atleast 3 years old the butter i haven't measured yet. The older female was 350g when i weighed her on april 17. The younger one was 210g but got bigger. I'll go measure for an update.

[scubadiver]

The last measurements were after the females ate and they are getting feed tonight but the butter is almost 250g, Rachael is 300g, and little mama is 210g.

[DD-mel]

they should all be at lest 300g minimum to breed. Rule is 3feet, 3 years, 300g other wise you risk them dieing from becoming egg bound

[scubadiver]

The butter was bred while she was with her previous owner. Little mama is still growing though she is about 5 years old and 40in.

[DD-mel]

Ok something doesn't seem right with that she is 5 years and only 210, and 40 inchs. Does she have probelms with keeping her food down? Also what size food is she getting at 5 years she should be way bigger then that.

[scubadiver]

She gets adults sometimes a smaller jumbo but when i thought she was gravid i didn't want to stress her so i gave her a hopper. she keeps down her food she just doesn't get bigger the lst time she really grew fast was when she was little and it was because she laid slugs at a really early age. thats why we call her little mama.

[DD-mel]

If she is that small it is probably best not to breed her since she is almost 100g below the minimum and could be a high risk to her becoming bound

[scubadiver]

I'm planing on waiting and feeding her up.

[DD-mel]

If at 5 years she is still that small there is a good chance she won't get much bigger. She may only ever be sutable for a pet snake. At least that is my opinion I would never use a snake that is too small for breeding just to much risk.

[ForkedTung]

The last measurements were after the females ate and they are getting feed tonight but the butter is almost 250g, Rachael is 300g, and little mama is 210g.
The highly recommended numbers for breeding females are the 3,3's:
1. 3 years of age
2. 3 foot in length
3. 300 grams ( this is especially important for younger females)

These are guidelines to help insure that the female does not egg bind, recovers from laying, etc.. You might want to consider giving the smaller ones another year before attempting to breed again, IMHO...Kyle


Did not read the next page..before posting ooops

[scubadiver]

Thanks for the consern. I have worried slightly over it though we had a friend who had approximately 500 snakes and he said though she was small last time we spoke he said since she was 5 yrs and close to 4 ft that maybe she was just a petite snake though i am very catious and am trying to feed her up we have already thought of letting her just be a pet snake though i want to try one more time.

[Quiet Tempest]

She gets adults sometimes a smaller jumbo but when i thought she was gravid i didn't want to stress her so i gave her a hopper. she keeps down her food she just doesn't get bigger the lst time she really grew fast was when she was little and it was because she laid slugs at a really early age. thats why we call her little mama.

Are you feeding her singleton mice at each feed or is she getting multiples? Is there any reason why you haven't graduated to weanling or extra small rats? I believe from a nutritional standpoint she'd be gaining better and benefiting more from eating rats rather than mice at her age.

[scubadiver]

Well right now she can only handle a adult mouse and we have jumbos when she gets big enough i have several on them right now. She only gets one but i try to feed every week if she has pooped. i just fed her and looks like she might be able to handle one of the smaller jumbos next time, or maybe two adults. we have never tried feeding our corns rats only our boas. The smallest rats we have are bigger than the jumbo mice.

[Quiet Tempest]

Well right now she can only handle a adult mouse and we have jumbos when she gets big enough i have several on them right now. She only gets one but i try to feed every week if she has pooped. i just fed her and looks like she might be able to handle one of the smaller jumbos next time, or maybe two adults. we have never tried feeding our corns rats only our boas. The smallest rats we have are bigger than the jumbo mice.

Maybe it's just me, but I think one mouse per week isn't enough. Once mine were over two they started getting 2-3 mice each week and now they're on one small rat per week. I think if you increased the size or number of her feeders you'd see more growth from her.

[scubadiver]

ok ill give her two adults next time and see if it helps. thanks for the info.

[Quiet Tempest]

ok ill give her two adults next time and see if it helps. thanks for the info.

Good luck with her. :)

[scubadiver]

Thanks ill give up dates on how she is.