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Moving up from Fuzzy to Hopper

sunglow
05-25-2002, 01:57 PM
Hi all,

I need to order frozen mice. I have seen references made to rodentpro.com. I visited web site, it looks great.

It appears that when I make my purchase, I'll need to buy a minimum of 100 mice.

I have a 10 mos old Sunglow, close to 2 feet long. I have been feeding him fuzzies. Since I have to buy at least 100 mice at this web site, should I move up to Hoppers?

How do you know when to move up in prey size? I would hate to buy 100 fuzzies when he really should be eating hoppers. At 2 feet long, could he handle hoppers?

As always, your comments are appreciated !!

Sunglow

Gregg
05-25-2002, 03:51 PM
Hi Sunglow,

Why not go to your local pet store and buy a 'test-hopper?' Then, see if your snakes will/can eat it. If it handles it with no problem, then it might be worth the investment for frozen ones.

sunglow
05-25-2002, 04:29 PM
Gregg,

Great suggestion. However I'm running into some difficulty finding frozen hoppers.

B-J@y
05-25-2002, 04:40 PM
why don't you buy live hopper? don't feed it live! you have to pre-kill it! if you are up to it that is!

Simon
05-25-2002, 06:51 PM
Well you can still order the 100 fuzzies if you want and just feed it like 2-3 fuzzies a meal. Just finish off all the 100 fuzzies and then next time you buy f/t mice again, you can buy hoppers then.

Remember the largest meal that your snake can take is around 1.5 the size of it's largest area (which should be the stomach)

Or you can go with other people's advice and go out and buy a hopper live (I would advice killing it before the feed, but of course other people have other preference so do as you like) or fozen to feed it to your snake and see if it will take it okay.

Good Luck and Happy Herping!

pdrau
05-25-2002, 08:46 PM
At 2 feet your snake should handle hoppers fine. My ghost female is 22-24" and handles two every 5-7 days with no problems.

Look on http://www.faunaclassifieds.com for a listing for Frank's Furries. I can't remember his web site, (sent him an email to get it). I am pretty sure he has frozen hoppers. I'm going to order from him as soon as he emails me back. He has a good reputation on the classifieds site.

Peter

Rodentpro.com is cheaper by 10 cents a hopper, so I ordered from them. 100 lot bag is $32. Considering my friend's pet shop charges 1.50 a hopper, this is going to save me loads.

Traci
05-25-2002, 09:12 PM
Sydeny is 27" long I feed him 1 fuzzy every 4 days or so, it sounds like I should increase it or move up. Any suggestions? I am worried about power feeding him. Can someone tell me where I can find a picture of a hopper? Thanks for the info.

pdrau
05-25-2002, 10:10 PM
Here's a pic of a hopper from rodentpro.com.

27" corn should be on 2 hoppers every 5-7 days in my opinion.

There are pics of other mice/rat sizes on there too.

Some basic guidelines for feeding. These are just my opinions, so feel free to adjust, comment, ignore, or whatever.

up to 12" - 1 or 2 pinkies every 5 - 7 days

12" to 18" - 2 or 3 pinkies OR 1 or 2 fuzzies every 5 - 7 days

18" to 24" - 2 or 3 fuzzies OR 1 or 2 hoppers every 5 - 7 days

24" to 30" - 2 or 3 hoppers OR 1 or 2 weanlings every 7 - 10 days

30" and above - move to next larger food item when eating 3 rodents of the current size every 10 - 14 days

Peter

Gregg
05-26-2002, 11:04 AM
Whew, that's a lot to feed, unless you want fat snakes, fast.

I think it depends on what the individual snake can, or will, handle. Some will go off eating, if you continually feed too much. Some will pig out and then regurgitate. Over-feeding is pushing a snake to get bigger fast. While that works, you may also be putting a lot of stress on the snake in the long term, causing it to become fat, unhealthy, and short lived.

I use to feed my snakes two each of whatever I was feeding them at the time every 5 days. Some of my '01 babies regurgitated; some of them didn't. Then, my old buddy, Spot, went off eating. I took Spot to the vet and had him examined. As it turned out, Spot was fine and healthy, but he was over-weight. At 4' 9", he weighed in at 650 grams. Doc said he was too fat and to feed him only one adult mouse every 10 days. Of course, he sometimes appears still hungry after only one mouse, so I will feed him two and he will go quitely back under his water dish afterwards. It's his way of saying, "Mmm, that was good. Wonder if there is any more." (I'm anthropomorphizing.)

My other adult snake--an albino, striped, California Kingsnake--loves two adult mice every 10 days and can handle them with no problem. He would love more, but two are all he gets.

Anyway, if my snakes can handle, or appear to want, two of whatever size I'm I'm feeding them, then I'll go up to the next larger size mouse. Believe it or not, I have two 2001 babies that still can only eat the smallest newborns I can find. Otherwise, they will regurgitate.

pdrau
05-26-2002, 11:28 AM
I don't know how you can say that's too much unless you didn't understand that my "/" between the two sizes was an OR. That was simply a guide and not a hard fast rule.

I know one guy on here lets his snakes eat as much as they want then passes what's left to his larger snakes.

My reference point was the one where a 27" snake was being fed 1 fuzzy every 4 days.

Anyway, every snake isn't going to follow these guidelines some will eat less and some will eat everything they see. The end result desired is a firm bodied snake that is still slender in proportion to its length. Its skin should be taut, but not bulging with only a slight variation in girth over the length past the neck area to the cloaca. Feeding of course should be monitored for overweight conditions and adjusted accordingly.

Most questions posed here that I've seen concerning feeding demonstrate snakes that are more leaning towards being underfed than overfed. The suggestions I've made are only small increases to what the snake was already being fed. These suggestions of course are only my opinions and what anyone decides to do is up to them.

My opinions are the culmination of what I've read here and other places, the direction of advanced herp keeper friends, and personal experience.

Peter

Gregg
05-26-2002, 11:51 AM
Don't confuse another's opinion as an attack against you personally. Opinions are like a--holes, everyone's got one. Everyone has the to right to express their opinions also. I was not launching an attack against you, okay? I have no desire to go there. Stay cool.:cool:

pdrau
05-26-2002, 12:25 PM
No offense taken Gregg. I was just reiterating that my comments were merely my opinions. I didn't think you were attacking me, but I didn't understand what I said that would make you say "Whew, that's a lot to feed, unless you want fat snakes, fast." That's all. I'm just here trying to learn and help others as I find out more myself. We all love this hobby and we're all better for all of our opinions. Everyone learns something. I tend to just throw out what I think and then let someone else correct where I am wrong. I learn a lot that way and it prompts the more experienced people to chime in.

Peter

ERJ
05-26-2002, 04:01 PM
For me (being in the UK) it is much cheaper for me to let my 28" corn to eat weaners as i can feed hime only one of these and one fuzzy a week which is much cheaper (being in the UK). though i get these locally as i got the same problem (i could have got 14p per fuzzy online, IF i ordered enough) bu hey, change when you want cus i don't think it really matters if you feed him more fuzzies instead of less hoppers, they are both the same, its just which is more conveniant for you.
ERJ

pdrau
05-26-2002, 04:21 PM
I completely agree. Use whatever combination works for you, as long as you are feeding them adequately for their size. If you want to feed them 8 newborn pinkies instead of 2 hoppers, the more power to you. :D

I suppose we could extrapolate this more and ask the question:

What should the ratio of grams of food to body weight be?

HEHE!!!


Peter

Traci
05-26-2002, 04:46 PM
Thanks for the info. I tried giving Sydney 2 fuzzies (because I have 10 in the freezer). He ate one and then sat there a minute and i "moved" the other and he went after that one. He is full now, but not too big of a buldge. He used to eat 1 and you couldn't even tell within a couple hours. I think I may stay with this and see what happens. A hopper is right after a fuzzy correct? What is after a hopper? Thanks again.

pdrau
05-26-2002, 07:06 PM
pinkie, fuzzy, hopper, weanling, adult, super adult

http://www.rodentpro.com has some nice pics like the one I posted in this thread that show each mouse size compared to a US quarter.

Peter

Matt L
05-26-2002, 09:57 PM
Peter,
I didn't think you were to far off on your post for feeding....as long as they are basic guidelines. I think that both you and Gregg would agree that all snakes don't feed the same. I have some yearlings that will eat twice as much as others. I except what they can handle, and don't try to push them. I have the luxury of owning a very large mouse colony(I always have an assortment of sizes and colors) lol. Traci, If you have to order yours I would suggest on the smaller size. If you end up with mice your snake can't handle the savings will be lost anyway. You can always double up on smaller feeders. Best of Luck to all!

BeniciaBrian
05-27-2002, 12:25 AM
Sunglow.
Try to find someone in your area to split the 100 fuzzy or hopper mice with. That way you are not stuck with 100 mice in your freezer for many months.
You could post here or on kingsnake.com forum.

sunglow
05-27-2002, 01:50 PM
BeniciaBrian,

Thanks for suggestion.

I think after reading the posts to this thread, that I will purchase 100 fuzzies.

Is there anyone in Philadelphia area that would like to purchase 50 fuzzies?

-Sunglow