What would the offspring of these look like?

This is the male( a creamsicle, 4th generation) and this is the female(a charcoal het for blizzard)

First thing to remember is that all of the offspring will have emoryi blood in them, and as such, you shouldn't sell them as pure corn. That being said, the offspring will look normal, maybe a bit more brownish, due to the emoryi, and they will be het for amel and charcoal.

Edit: oops guys, missed the "het for blizzard" part! kinda important.

I refuse to get into the hybrid not hybrid debate, here but thanks anyway and good day to you.

if creamsicles are amel, and a charcoal het for blizzard is essentially het amel, then won't some of the offspring be amel het charcoal? or does the emoryi blood mess with this? just wondering...

Correct......

The amel in Creamsicles is compatable with the amel in Blizzards. There should be some amels (Creamsicles) in that cross.

It's my understanding that rootbeer corns are the result of creamcicle and anery crosses. I would suspect that crossing creams with a charcoal would be similar.

Clint, would the F1 of this pairing also be het for both amel and charcoal, thereby capable of producing blizzards in the F2? Just a thought!

Darin

They would be....

As I understand it, Rootbeers are the normal offspring from an emoryi X guttata. They tend to have a browner color overall.
Any offspring from that pairing that are not amel (Creamsicle) would be het amel and Charcoal.
The F2's would have the chance to be Blizzards but I have not heard of or seen any that have emoryi blood in them. I don't think you could call them Blizzards since Blizzard is a name used for a pure guttata mutation. Maybe we could call them Blizsicles?

How much Emoryi blood do you think is actually in an outcrossed, fourth generation creamsicle?
By the way he was purchased from Great Plains Reptile, at a show in Kansas City.This is how it happened:
I was standing there looking at a snow corn, when another guy walked up and started looking at them.He was asking all kinds of(good) questions." How old are they?When did they eat last?Do you have pics of the parents?What generation are they?How much Emoryi blood is in them?How many times have they shed?( All very good questions.)But this brought my attention to them.Absolutely beautiful!Showing just the smallest amount of white around the saddle,barely noticable.Unlike the other Cremesickles there, which clearly would have white borders.I stood there waiting patiently for this stranger to make his decision,and purchase,all for nothing! He just said thanks and walked away!!Leaving them all there for me to choose from.Well, out of all the ones they had this guy caught my eye the most, because of his unusual white head pattern.It must have been a fav. of the guy I bought it off of too. When I asked him to sex it for me, he did so, immediately popping it's hemis' proclaiming it a male and placing it back in with the other dozen or so. Even after I had told him I wanted it reguardless of it's sex!Well I picked it back out no problem made my purchase and left to see the other sights.The other guy?I saw him later wondering around with a Cremesickle from the other guy!I guess one man's trash truly is anothers treasure.Thanks guy!

That's a tough one....

If the first generation is emoryi X guttata then they would be 1/2 and 1/2.

If the second generation is crossed with another 1/2 and 1/2 then the offspring still 1/2 and 1/2.

If the second were crossed with a pure guttata then the offspring would be 1/4 emoryi and 3/4 guttata.

The third generation crossed with a pure guttata would be 1/8 emoryi and 7/8 guttata.

The fourth generation crossed with pure guttata would be 1/16 emoryi and 15/16 guttata.

The animal in your pic looks to be at least 1/2 emoryi. They tend to lose their yellow color if they have too much guttata blood. It may be 4th generation but I dought it was crossed out to pure guttata with each of those generations. There is no way to know for sure unless you get that info from the breeder.

Sorry, missed the "het for blizzard" on the charcoal! But I agree with Clint, the cream looks like it has a lot of emoryi in it - a lot more than 1/16.

It is very yellow for a cream. almost a butter with orange spots and the head marking is quite different than a corns(IMO).I had no idea that the more Emoryi blood in them the brighter the yellow.Does this always hold true?What if an orange Creamsicle is crossed to a butter?Would it still not have as much yellow?Would it be more yellowthan the orange parent?Anyone ever tried it?I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE RESULT OF SUCH A PAIRING. Just curious as I would like to give the breeder the benefit of the doubt.I do not have his # but he comes to the annual show every year.I will ask him more specifics about it's genetics when next i see him.I have stated all I remembered.Sorry for allthe questions but "Enquiring minds want to know".

Butter X Creamsicle........

Butter (amel + Caramel) X Creamsicle (amel corn X emoryi) would produce amels (Creamsicles) het for Caramel in the F1 generation. If you were to cross those Offspring, 3/4 of that clutch will be amel (with a 66% chance that each one of those is het Caramel) and 1/4 of them being Butter'creams'.

SW Wisconsin reptiles breeds a lot of emoryi crosses and he calls this cross "Buttercream".
Here's a link to his site: http://swreptile.com/cornphoto.html

True Butters don't need the emoryi blood to create the intense yellow colors. I personally think it's unnessary and too confusing. I don't mean to come off as someone against emoryi crosses (I have a few myself). But I think we owe it to the integrity of our hobby to keep things straight. If it didn't matter to anyone, then it would be no problem. But there are a lot of people (including myself) that want to know specifically what the genetic makeup of our snakes is. It would be too easy for someone down the line to forget the 'cream' at the end of the name even though the breeder had good intentions.
I try not to preach, but instead, just to give my opinon in a way that is easily understood. A lot of anti emoryi cross folks react with what appears as hostility, we don't need that! Open lines of communication will serve our hobby much better.

Sorry for rambling!

P.S. I love the edit option!

I think you may have misunderstood,I have no plans for crossing a butter to a cream.I just wanted to know if this cross would make a cream that looked like it had more Emoryi than it really did, as you said a first gen cream would be very yellow.

Oh.....

Gee.....I just rambled right past your question didn't I!

Actually, the link I posted was intended to let you see what that cross looked like. I think you're on the right track with your thinking. The Caramel gene in the mix would definately make the snake look like it has a larger % of emoryi.