seperate feeding place

[speirsaaron]

hiya for the first time tonight i fed my corn in a seperate thing to her tank and she ate but she got cold realy quickly, do i need to get anuther heat mat or something for the feeding place(its just a clear bucket) and how long should i leave her there beofre liftin her back into her normal tank?:) thanks

[GriffinL]

Ive only had my snake for 3 weeks, but what i do is put the pinkie into a lunch bag and then put my snake in considering he is small. You could also use a grocery bag. I havent had any trouble with it getting to cold but u could put the bag in the tank so its getting the heat. Hope this helps.

[speirsaaron]

you put ur snake and the pinkie in a plastic bag ? i dont think medusa(mycorn) wud liek that at all, and if i put the mouse in teh tank it gets coverd in the substrate and she eats it and its not good for her

[medusacoils]

I feed all my snakes in a feeding bin. You could put a UTH on it, if you are concerned about her getting cold, but it is usually such a short period of time, that it may not be necessary.

Wayne

[elrojo]

Feed 'em in their cage. Seriously. They are no more bitey doing so than moving them first and much more likely to eat, IMO/IME.

[GriffinL]

Not plastic, paper. Idk thats what i do.

[Floof]

I feed mine in a small container that I can fit in their vivs.. But I do that because all but two of them get either really defensive or really hungry after eating, and tend to try biting me if I so much as get near them.

Anyway, you don't need to put a heat mat on the feeding tub. Feed the snake, let it settle long enough at least that the food reaches its stomach, and then put it back in its cage. Some people will let their snakes sit and relax for an hour before they put them back... I only do that with my boas, since they take so darn long to finish eating in the first place. =)

[speirsaaron]

okay thank u everyone :) but i think il go with floof and just keep feedin her in the tub :) thanks again

[medusacoils]

I feed all of my snakes in a separate container, because it cuts down on accidental striking/biting. The snake doesn't learn to associate your reaching in their tub, with feeding. Also, by moving them into a separate container, I find that my snakes learn when feeding time is. They begin to recognize the container and "switch on". That way they and I know it's coming.

Feed however you feel comfortable. There isn't a whole lot you can do wrong, on feeding day. As long as the feeder is completely thawed, warmed and of appropriate size.

Wayne

[speirsaaron]

the onli thing about feeding her in her acc tank is that the blood from the cut throat stuck to the substrate and then she eats it and its doesn do her good and yeah the whole feeding time and stuff is a good idea :)

[kingwoz60]

I feed in the viv. I don't have any problems with "feeding confusion." This might go against the general advice on feeding, but I usually handle the snake for a little while before feeding. I then place him in his viv and lower the fuzzy to him with tongs. If anything, I seem to think that he has associated a handling with the possibility of eating right afterward. I have never been bitten or struck at. I think all snakes have a personality of their own.

[elrojo]

I feed all of my snakes in a separate container, because it cuts down on accidental striking/biting.
Nope.com. There is no evidence of this. Feeding out of the cage is one of those things that "makes sense to people." I am convinced it is 99% Internet information regurgitation. You read it, you try it, you start doing it, you tell others it cuts down on biting, when there is no evidence that it does!
The snake doesn't learn to associate your reaching in their tub, with feeding.
Again, this makes sense, but isn't supported by evidence.
Also, by moving them into a separate container, I find that my snakes learn when feeding time is.
A bit of anthropomorphism, but snakes are capable of some general Pavlovian conditioning. They will understand when feeding time is any time there is the fresh smell of rodent, too!
They begin to recognize the container and "switch on". That way they and I know it's coming.
You'll both also know it's coming when fed in the cage -it's coming when the mouse is dropped in!
Feed however you feel comfortable. There isn't a whole lot you can do wrong, on feeding day. As long as the feeder is completely thawed, warmed and of appropriate size.

Wayne
Now that we can all agree on! I don't mean to pick on you, Wayne, just strongly disagree with this remove from cage to feed business. It doesn't "hurt" anything, IF it works for your animals, but there is no evidence that it helps!! Here are some times it can hurt: the nervous snake that is less likely to eat when moved, the strong feeder who wants to eat anything and everything once in feeding mode (God help the person who tries to feed my Womas out of cage), keeping the bins warm for feeding/pre-digestion, cross-contamination of bins (or are you going to have one for each snake?), and increased chance of escapes. And when you have a large collection, it's simply not practical. I'm not telling anybody to stop here, just pointing out that there are some potential calculated downsides and the upside is a hypothesis. Like ya said, feed however you feel comfortable!:cheers:

[Nanci]

The thing I like about feeding them in separate containers is while I have ten snakes out sitting on the counter eating, I can be scrubbing water bowls and picking out poo without having a helpful snake overseeing everything and either getting in the way or trying to leave...

Plus once they're out, they get weighed on the way to their bins. Otherwise it would be very random.

[Reptilekyle64]

IMO it might be more work to place them in bins to feed but you get to look over them more while doing it. my snakes dont really mistake my hands for food even on feeding day i just make sure i move slowly to pick them up. And the only few times i ever got bit was picking them up from their feeding bins, as they sometimes expect more food but a well handled snake is usually a calm one.

[Buzzard]

Seriously, It is a corn snake. Getting bit from a corn snake scares more that it hurts.

I feed mine in seperate container for the same reason Nanci does. Perfect time to clean cages, water bowls and do a general overlook of all the snakes before I feed them.

Elrojo,

I have to agree with you on a lot of your points. There is a ton of bad info out there. There are usually many ways of doing things and most are the "right" way (according to your situation). I do somethings that most people on this board would have a cow over. But it works for me, and my snakes. I just do not bring them up or answer the questions when they come up ( it just makes me mad and I rather not feel that way)

[speirsaaron]

if i feed my snake out of her cage in a seperate container how long should i leave her before i can pick her up again? like i dont wanna hurt her or anythin by pickin her up before her foods properly digested or sumthin.

[Marica]

I usually give mine about 10 minutes to eat and then I just dip the feeding container into the viv and let them come out on their own.

[Buzzard]

Speirsaaron, I wait until the prey item is to the stomach of the snake and then gentle pick the snake up. If it is a real small snake, Use a small container. Put it in the bottom of the tank/viv when it is done eating. Open the top and let the little bugger come out on his own, Take the container out (that is if you do not feel comfortable touching or carrying the snake after it ate.).... Just my thoughts

[speirsaaron]

thanks all im just makein sure i dont wanna hurt her or make her uncomfortable :)

[medusacoils]

I had no idea this was a debate. I actually stopped checking on this thread, because when it comes to feeding, it's all based on preference and nothing more. If it works for you, then it works for you, but that doesn't mean that it's going to work for me. Nor does it mean that your way is the RIGHT way. We as keepers, do a lot of things that aren't based on fact, but do them based on personal experience.

Nope.com. There is no evidence of this. Feeding out of the cage is one of those things that "makes sense to people." I am convinced it is 99% Internet information regurgitation. You read it, you try it, you start doing it, you tell others it cuts down on biting, when there is no evidence that it does!

Again, this makes sense, but isn't supported by evidence.



What evidence do you have? The only thing we all have regarding this, is our own experiences!

A bit of anthropomorphism, but snakes are capable of some general Pavlovian conditioning. They will understand when feeding time is any time there is the fresh smell of rodent, too!

All animals are subject to conditioning. If I were to shake a pinkie in front of my snake, while it was in it's viv. Yes, it would probably realize that it was feeding time. But, when I place that same snake in it feeding bin, it realizes it's feeding instantly. The snakes associate the bin with feeding, just like a cat does a can opener or a dog when it hears the bag rustle.

You'll both also know it's coming when fed in the cage -it's coming when the mouse is dropped in!

But what happens the time, when you aren't dropping the mouse in, but snakey thinks you are?

Now that we can all agree on! I don't mean to pick on you, Wayne,

yeah you do! ;)

just strongly disagree with this remove from cage to feed business.

Why Strongly? It's just feeding snakes!

It doesn't "hurt" anything, IF it works for your animals, but there is no evidence that it helps!!

And, there isn't evidence that it hurts. Just speculation

Here are some times it can hurt: the nervous snake that is less likely to eat when moved,

All snakes are nervous at first. That's why you practice repetition. Think of it as a type of training. Eventually, they will get used to it.

the strong feeder who wants to eat anything and everything once in feeding mode (God help the person who tries to feed my Womas out of cage),

This is when a feeding bin comes in handy. I have several snakes that are like this. They have been conditioned to realize that feeding time, only happens in their feeding bin. They have ZERO association with the contrary!

keeping the bins warm for feeding/pre-digestion,

How cold do you keep your house? My home is a comfortable temperature and I don't see my snakes living on top of their heating pads? I don't understand this point? When I feed my snakes, I don't keep them in the tub for a long period of time, so what does this point mean?

cross-contamination of bins (or are you going to have one for each snake?),

Nope.com, but I got the cleaning and rinsing bottle ready!

and increased chance of escapes.

Common sense dictates that you keep an eye on your snake and put a lid on it!

And when you have a large collection, it's simply not practical.

I agree and now that my collection is getting larger, I am finding it a bit difficult. But, so is the cleaning, watering and everything else assiciated with a large collection. Feeding time is the time that I take care of everything from cleaning to changing to checking.

I'm not telling anybody to stop here, just pointing out that there are some potential calculated downsides and the upside is a hypothesis.

I think that you are missing that there are potential up sides and down sides to both methods. And the whole thing is a hypothesis. Nothing is based on fact.

Like ya said, feed however you feel comfortable!:cheers:

I knew we would agree on something!

Wayne

[Nanci]

increased chance of escapes

Both of my escapes have been from feeding bins, both males on feeding strike, both times I was ticked off at the snake for not eating and had done a reheat or something. I think with Maize I'd bought a live rat pink and didn't have anything else to feed it to, and didn't want to kill it myself...Both were recovered quickly: Maizey after a strike team-like response in the laundry room and Bacon after a stake-out. I've relaxed a lot since then about springtime hunger strikes...

[medusacoils]

I am not saying that person who feeds in their viv is wrong. Nor, am I saying that everyone has to feed in a seperate feeding bin. In my experience, this is the right way, for ME. It may be different for you and who am I to tell you otherwise. We are just feeding a snake, in a non life threatening manner. I think that both ways are correct, to a point! It's all about preference!

Wayne

[psychoprimate84]

I feed mine in separate plastic containers due to the fact that I use aspen bedding as substrate.

[elrojo]

I've fed an awful lot of snakes an awful lot of times on aspen or cyprus. Still do for many. Not telling you to, just saying that the day I have a health problem from that (or keeping an adult beardie on sand) is the I'll admit the bad luck lottery caught up with me.

[Floof]

Woah, it DID turn into a debate!

I'm going to try to register my opinion/reasons beyond the obvious "I don't have a million snakes" before my class ends (ish at school).

I find feeding in tubs convenient, and better for my piece of mind. All of my snakes are kept on aspen, except for the first few weeks I have them (spot cleaning is so much easier than replacing a bunch of paper towel once a week). It bothers me to think that the aspen could even just "speculatively" clog up their digestive systems... My discomfort is supported by the only snake I feed "in viv," who, multiple times ,has ingested a good amount of aspen (I've since learned to drag her into her water dish, at the expense of many rat tails to the tight clamp of the hemostats). It always makes me shiver and worry, and it doesn't help as much as one may think when all of that aspen comes out in her poo. So, peace of mind--reason #1 why tub feeding is good for me.

Second, it's more convenient for me. Whether it's watching to make sure they eat or to watch for refusals... Or to watch for when someone needs to be moved up to the next size. It also gives me the chance to feed and weigh them, clean out those vivs with paper towel as substrate, spot clean, and replace water. Not to mention, the "food" is kept upstairs and the snakes are kept downstairs, and I'd rather take the snakes upstairs and have them all in one place than take the food downstairs and run all over the room.

Third, interaction. I like to interact with my snakes. I've found lately that that doesn't always happen with 10 (can't imagine what it is with 100 or more). This gives me a chance to look them over...

And class just ended. Lol. I think I covered everything, though...

[b8g8]

Everything I've read agrees with MedusaCoils' ten cents, and it's worked for me. :)

[elrojo]

Woah, it DID turn into a debate!
That's what I like most about this message board!

I find feeding in tubs convenient, and better for my piece of mind. All of my snakes are kept on aspen, except for the first few weeks I have them (spot cleaning is so much easier than replacing a bunch of paper towel once a week). It bothers me to think that the aspen could even just "speculatively" clog up their digestive systems... My discomfort is supported by the only snake I feed "in viv," who, multiple times ,has ingested a good amount of aspen (I've since learned to drag her into her water dish, at the expense of many rat tails to the tight clamp of the hemostats). It always makes me shiver and worry, and it doesn't help as much as one may think when all of that aspen comes out in her poo. So, peace of mind--reason #1 why tub feeding is good for me.
Peace of mind is a valid reason. I just do not worry about possible bad outcomes that are highly unlikely. I don't play the lottery either, though!
Second, it's more convenient for me.
It certainly is NOT convenient! Of all things you could say in support of feeding out of the cage, the one thing it IS is less convenient!
Whether it's watching to make sure they eat or to watch for refusals...
But you will get more refusals when moving the animal before feeding. Many of my snakes with a poorer feeding response would never eat if moved (I've tried).
Or to watch for when someone needs to be moved up to the next size.
But you can eyeball that. http://i40.tinypic.com/ilzjb9.jpg
It also gives me the chance to feed and weigh them, clean out those vivs with paper towel as substrate, spot clean, and replace water. Not to mention, the "food" is kept upstairs and the snakes are kept downstairs, and I'd rather take the snakes upstairs and have them all in one place than take the food downstairs and run all over the room.
Jeez, you're carrying them up and down flights of stairs too!?! I promise by any definition of the word, it would be more convenient to toss a thawed mouse in each cage! :laugh:
Third, interaction. I like to interact with my snakes. I've found lately that that doesn't always happen with 10 (can't imagine what it is with 100 or more). This gives me a chance to look them over...
After hatching time, I admit I have more hatchlings than I can look over. I usually find when they are really hungry to be a less than ideal time to handle, though.

And class just ended. Lol. I think I covered everything, though...
You did all this during class? Man, I was born a generation or two too soon.

[medusacoils]

It certainly is NOT convenient! Of all things you could say in support of feeding out of the cage, the one thing it IS is less convenient!

Can I ask a question? When you clean out your snakes tanks, do you leave them in there? Do you spray whatever cleaner you use, right on them? Do you just, (just hypothetical and not insinuating), NOT clean their tanks?

I am asking, because this is the time that I do it. I can also, watch the snakes eat and check them over. I get their tubs all cleaned out, dishes washed, substrate changed and I check their hides.

I am willing to bet that you remove them and place them into a seperate container, to clean? But, is this more or less stressful than removing a snake, while feeding? I think not!

But you will get more refusals when moving the animal before feeding. Many of my snakes with a poorer feeding response would never eat if moved (I've tried).

This is an opinion and not based on any fact. I have not had any problems with refusals or regurge. I have snakes that have all different kinds of feeding responses and all of them feed, successfully in a separate feeding bin.


Jeez, you're carrying them up and down flights of stairs too!?! I promise by any definition of the word, it would be more convenient to toss a thawed mouse in each cage! :laugh:

And then find that mouse later on, partially decayed and stinking, because the snake refused to eat it.

After hatching time, I admit I have more hatchlings than I can look over. I usually find when they are really hungry to be a less than ideal time to handle, though.

A new hatchling, is better off fed in their cup or tank. They feel safer and are less intimidated. I don't feel the same way about an established feeder. But, that is just MY opinion.

Wayne

Wayne

[elrojo]

Can I ask a question? When you clean out your snakes tanks, do you leave them in there? Do you spray whatever cleaner you use, right on them? Do you just, (just hypothetical and not insinuating), NOT clean their tanks?

I have a few spare identical bins for every rack, and a TON of extra water bowls. I set up a new clean bin, new clean water bowl, move the snake into that, then slide it into the rack. Then I take that dirty bin, and clean with a bleach solution, rinse, towel dry, add more newspaper or bedding, and move the next snake into that. And so on and so forth. I spot clean here and there, but replace each water dish at least once weekly. The cages themselves don't need sterilizing too often. I've had a much larger collection in the past, so never have to wash and replace water dishes as part of the routine due to over 100 extras. All the water bowls go into a 35 gallon trash can full of chlorine solution overnight, then are hand washed, then go into the store dishwasher and are used the next week.

I am asking, because this is the time that I do it. I can also, watch the snakes eat and check them over. I get their tubs all cleaned out, dishes washed, substrate changed and I check their hides.
I only feed once weekly, except for females nearing breeding season. If I feed on Sunday, I tend to spot clean on Wednesday or Thursday and take care of any cages that might need a whole cleaning. The snakes don't go back into the same bin they came out of, almost without exception.

I am willing to bet that you remove them and place them into a seperate container, to clean? But, is this more or less stressful than removing a snake, while feeding? I think not!

Nope, they go into a new container that is their new home for a week or three.

This is an opinion and not based on any fact. I have not had any problems with refusals or regurge. I have snakes that have all different kinds of feeding responses and all of them feed, successfully in a separate feeding bin.

It IS an opinion, but is indeed based on evidence. My black milks will NOT eat when put in a new bin. They are the only snakes not part of the snake room due to their lower temp requirements. I have tried to feed them while cleaning their cages, and with one exception, they simply will not feed and just cruise the cage. I have hognosed, ball pythons, and lepidus that are on the "hot rack" that I have tried this with as well. They are hit or miss but mostly miss with thawed in a feeding bin. I have no doubt most of my corns and kings would eat if I was holding them, but to call this opinion and not "based on any fact" is simply untrue. You could not care for my collection using your methods, I assure you.


And then find that mouse later on, partially decayed and stinking, because the snake refused to eat it.

I check every bin the morning after feeding. I've missed an uneaten mouse this way before, but it really is uncommon.

A new hatchling, is better off fed in their cup or tank. They feel safer and are less intimidated. I don't feel the same way about an established feeder. But, that is just MY opinion.

Wayne

Wayne

Wayne Wayne, I'll reiterate that I am not telling anyone NOT to feed outside of their enclosure. I am simply stating that it is unnecessary, and that there exist downsides. I like you as a poster here and I appreciate the debate! :cheers:

[medusacoils]

Wayne Wayne, I'll reiterate that I am not telling anyone NOT to feed outside of their enclosure. I am simply stating that it is unnecessary, and that there exist downsides. I like you as a poster here and I appreciate the debate! :cheers:

This has been a fun little debate, because so many people have varying opinions on feeding. Some are done for habit and others are done for reason. I think that we forget that snakes have been successfully eating prey, without our help for thousands(if not more) of years.

I just get so wrapped up in the spirit of the discussion, sometimes that my fingers type faster, than my brain can think. I appreciate the opportunity to have this discussion, on this topic. I realize that we are both, "set in our ways" and probably have reached an impasse. I guess that we are just going to have to agree to, respectfully of course, disagree!

Thank you Chip!

Wayne

PS. Sorry for the Wayne Wayne thingy in the last post!

[MedusaCorns]

Woah, it DID turn into a debate!.





Wayne-O is the debating king... See his evil monkey....

He's so much fun :nyah: Poor me :noevil:

[elrojo]

I'm not done yet!http://i39.tinypic.com/rbfy8p.gif
This has been a fun little debate, because so many people have varying opinions on feeding.
It's not a little debate! And there are only two opinions!http://i42.tinypic.com/10ppl3q.gif
Some are done for habit and others are done for reason.
Mine is the one for a reason.http://i40.tinypic.com/ao5n3l.gif
I think that we forget that snakes have been successfully eating prey, without our help for thousands(if not more) of years.
At least 100 million. And cavemen never put them in separate containers!http://i42.tinypic.com/1zoaj46.gif
I just get so wrapped up in the spirit of the discussion, sometimes that my fingers type faster, than my brain can think. Happens to the best of us.http://i40.tinypic.com/2jba2o7.jpg
I appreciate the opportunity to have this discussion, on this topic. I realize that we are both, "set in our ways" and probably have reached an impasse. I guess that we are just going to have to agree to, respectfully of course, disagree!
But I just won! You asked all these loaded questions thinking that I was gonna admit putting mine in a separate enclosure to clean and I don't. You were just waiting to gloat!http://i40.tinypic.com/351ibv6.gif
Thank you Chip!

Wayne

PS. Sorry for the Wayne Wayne thingy in the last post!
I like Wayne Wayne. That should be your new nickname.

[Floof]

Lol... This was interesting. I'm sad I forgot to check on this after school. And, yes, you were born too early. So was I, or I would've been able to finish after class. The year I became a sophomore, the school started issuing laptops to Freshmen. Missed it by one year!

Anyway, I'm too lazy to go back, quote, and respond like that, so I'm going by memory.

It IS more convenient for me. I don't know how to explain that, but it is. I don't handle them before feeding, but give them a quick look-over as I put them in their tubs, and then as I put them away. I'm still learning to "eyeball" prey sizes; I usually go by a combination of weight and how big the bulge is when they've finished eating. I also weigh them before they eat.

I don't have a problem with refusals in feeding bins... Yes, even with the walk up stairs (though that may change, now that the rodents don't fit in the upstairs freezer and I realize I DO have one downstairs--however stinky it is). The only refusals I get are when the boas begin to go into shed.. I only have a couple corns who occasionally refuse in shed. Only one snake did I have to feed in enclosure, and that was my first corn, who was stressed from living in my sleeve through a mid-winter power outage. She eventually phased back into the feeding tub, and now would probably ignore her food in her regular enclosure (not refuse, but literally ignore--she's a lazy feeder, takes as long as an hour to get to her food sometimes, even with the small space of the feeding tub).

I'll probably end up feeding the hatchlings in their own tubs until they're established, but I also intend to keep them on paper towels, at least for as long as I feed them in their tubs--part of the "peace of mind" thing. I can understand feeding in the enclosure for immense collections, but mine is far from the point where feeding in separate tubs becomes cumbersome and inane.

[Fozzy8810]

What if the snake was put in a small enclosure ( rubbermaid bowl or something ) with the pinky that was placed in the tank with the pinky? I'm new to this as well and hearing whether or not to put the corn in an enclosure from pet stores is really CONFUSING

[ceduke]

I feed in a separate enclosure as well. I use the opportunity to give each snake a once-over, spot-clean their tank, etc. Plus, I have one snake who is determined to eat her own tail, and it's easier for me to get into a rubbermaid than her tank if I need to pry her mouth off of herself.

[elrojo]

What if the snake was put in a small enclosure ( rubbermaid bowl or something ) with the pinky that was placed in the tank with the pinky? I'm new to this as well and hearing whether or not to put the corn in an enclosure from pet stores is really CONFUSING

Feeding in a deli cup is a common trick for finicky feeders. Something about them just being in close proximity overnight often helps stubborn feeders take a meal.