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Question about Pine

ceduke

ceduke

Female Wiccan Heretic!!
Pine shavings contain phenols which can cause health issues, this is common knowledge.

Kiln-dried pine has most of the phenols baked out during the kiln-drying process. Even the real Nazis on the rat forum I used to belong to agreed that kiln-dried pine was safe for rats and other small animals. I assume that means it would be safe for snakes as well?

I ask because I can get 12cf of kiln-dried pine at my workplace cheaper than 4cf of aspen.
 
Personally I wouldn't chance it, but that is just my humble opinion. Not anything based on facts about the risk, based on my not wanting to anychances with the health of my snakes. Esp. because I have had so much heart ache from loosing 3 snakes that were bought from pet stores and were ill upon purchase, but I did not know enough to know better.
 
I'm one of those "rat-nazis" as well, and I wouldn't use any kind of pine for my rats, period. Not to mention that since snakes have a longer lifespan, I think they would even have a greater chance of coming down with health issues associated with pine.
 
Ah, this was what I was looking for:

Some claim that pine shavings which are heat-treated are safe because the heat drives off the toxins. There are currently products being sold, notably All-Pet Pine, Feline Pine, and Pine Fresh, that claim to be free of toxins. However, the studies in references 8 and 9 found that heat treatment did not remove all the toxins from the wood. Heat-treated shavings still caused a rise in liver enzymes in rats and mice.

Thanks! I'll pass that along to my customers at the store as well.
 
Pine

The place where i bought my snake uses Pine exclusively. The East Bay Vivarium. They are not a chain pet store. They sent me home with a bag of Pine. I switched to Aspen after reading the forums here.
 
Well let me be the nay sayer. (How do you spell sayer? Saier? )

Do you know what the most expensive pets on earth are. Race horses. People spend literally millions of dollars for a Derby candidate. People spend a million bucks for a few cc’s of semen from a runner. They spend millions on doctors and trainers and research. They are even cloning the runners now. I had a horse with a trainer in California who had a swimming pool for the horses and he would make them swim laps.

Do you know what every racehorse in America is standing on right now? Pine Shavings. Horses are extremely sensitive to respiratory problems. They have all they same problems mice would have. They eat hay off the shavings and ingest shavings all the time. Race Horse People don’t cut corners. If they thought shavings from nut trees in Egypt were better they would buy them.

I can’t get aspen where I live. I have ordered it from PetCo and had it shipped but that is very expensive. I can get Pine Shavings from the feed store. I have used pine for many years for both my mice and snakes. I can honestly tell you I have never heard of anyone who could definitely say they had problems the resulted from pine. I’ve heard all the Internet horror stories, but I have never talked to anyone who could substantiate it. Have you?
 
wade said:
Well let me be the nay sayer. (How do you spell sayer? Saier? )

Do you know what the most expensive pets on earth are. Race horses. People spend literally millions of dollars for a Derby candidate. People spend a million bucks for a few cc’s of semen from a runner. They spend millions on doctors and trainers and research. They are even cloning the runners now. I had a horse with a trainer in California who had a swimming pool for the horses and he would make them swim laps.

Do you know what every racehorse in America is standing on right now? Pine Shavings. Horses are extremely sensitive to respiratory problems. They have all they same problems mice would have. They eat hay off the shavings and ingest shavings all the time. Race Horse People don’t cut corners. If they thought shavings from nut trees in Egypt were better they would buy them.

I can’t get aspen where I live. I have ordered it from PetCo and had it shipped but that is very expensive. I can get Pine Shavings from the feed store. I have used pine for many years for both my mice and snakes. I can honestly tell you I have never heard of anyone who could definitely say they had problems the resulted from pine. I’ve heard all the Internet horror stories, but I have never talked to anyone who could substantiate it. Have you?
Click to expand...
As above....... Snap.
 
wade said:
Well let me be the nay sayer. (How do you spell sayer? Saier? )

Do you know what the most expensive pets on earth are. Race horses. People spend literally millions of dollars for a Derby candidate. People spend a million bucks for a few cc’s of semen from a runner. They spend millions on doctors and trainers and research. They are even cloning the runners now. I had a horse with a trainer in California who had a swimming pool for the horses and he would make them swim laps.

Do you know what every racehorse in America is standing on right now? Pine Shavings. Horses are extremely sensitive to respiratory problems. They have all they same problems mice would have. They eat hay off the shavings and ingest shavings all the time. Race Horse People don’t cut corners. If they thought shavings from nut trees in Egypt were better they would buy them.

I can’t get aspen where I live. I have ordered it from PetCo and had it shipped but that is very expensive. I can get Pine Shavings from the feed store. I have used pine for many years for both my mice and snakes. I can honestly tell you I have never heard of anyone who could definitely say they had problems the resulted from pine. I’ve heard all the Internet horror stories, but I have never talked to anyone who could substantiate it. Have you?
Click to expand...

One difference between rodents and race horses. Size!! Race horses or most other barn animal for that matter, have size on their side. Their mouths and noses are feet and sometimes yards above stall bedding, stables and barns have far greater air circulation, then the typical rodent set up and race horses are kept in cleaner environments.

Mice, rats or rodents in general have their noses and mouths just mere millimeters to centimeters from any bedding. Actually, they will usually burrow into the bedding, plus all the digging, scratching and whatever else they do in it. They will breath in far more of the dust and toxins from the pine.

We have seen first hand, what happens to mice when you put them on pine shavings and the respiratory problems that arise and the skin irritation that occurs.

Do what you think is best, but keep an eye on you animals and be prepared to change things quickly, if there is a problem.

Good Luck!

Wayne
 
Dust is the main factor with respiratory problems and it won’t matter what species of tree the dust comes from. Dust for the food will be a problem as well.

I have never seen any skin problems on my rodents. I use a 4 cubic foot bale of pine each week and have done so for about 20 years. But as you say, do what you think is best.
 
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