Bad Scenario, please help

I am now the proud owner of a baby charcoal corn snake. However, being a first time owner, I am having several major problems, especially with heating.

First off, the tank I have is a 10 gallon with the dimensions of 20"x8"x12". I am using paper towels as a substrate. I have one hide, one log and one water bowl in the tank.

For heating, I have been experimenting for several days with no luck. I have a ceramic heater, a 25 watt day light, an undertank heater, and a thermostat. Simply put, the undertank heater works fine. Everything else has a problem.

I first tried combining the undertank with the day heater. This worked ok during the day, but in general was not warm enough (anywhere between 82 during the day and 76-77 at night for the warm spot of the tank) and the day light could not stay on during the night. I attempted to switch to a ceramic heater, but this was obviously far too hot, reaching nearly 90 during the day. Any attempt with the thermostat also failed, though I set it to 85 for the warm end no change was visible at all in the day or night, it appeared to shut off the heat when the probe hit 80. The tank is currently only on the undertank heater, which may be the sole reason the snake has not died yet.

The heating swings appear to be having negative effects on my snake as well. When I finally got it feeding, It regurgitated its meal 2 days later (I believe as a result of the far too hot conditions occurring from the ceramic heater), and has been acting very sluggish, though it was very active when I bought it.

What should I do? Ive thought about getting a second undertank heater (maybe mounting it on the side), but is that a good idea? Please help. Thanks

What are you using to measure the temperature? A dial thermometer or a digital thermometer with probe?

I would switch to aspen, move the UTH to only 1/3 of the cage, and get a rheostat for now. Put the probe in the cage under the subtrate on the warm side to get an accurte temp of 82-85 and have a hide on the cool side as well as the warm side. Then follow the regurge FAQ by Kathy Love which you can find on here. Don't feed or handle for 8- 10 days and then feed only a pinkie head. If it keeps it down move up size slowly feeding every 5-7 days, but if not start over and do not try to feed any sooner they need to build up their digestive enzymes or risk regurging again. You should also consider buying a product called Nutribac which can be bought on Kathy Love's website it helps them build good bacterias and digestive enzymes

danielle said:

I would switch to aspen, move the UTH to only 1/3 of the cage, and get a rheostat for now. Put the probe in the cage under the subtrate on the warm side to get an accurte temp of 82-85 and have a hide on the cool side as well as the warm side. Then follow the regurge FAQ by Kathy Love which you can find on here. Don't feed or handle for 8- 10 days and then feed only a pinkie head. If it keeps it down move up size slowly feeding every 5-7 days, but if not start over and do not try to feed any sooner they need to build up their digestive enzymes or risk regurging again. You should also consider buying a product called Nutribac which can be bought on Kathy Love's website it helps them build good bacterias and digestive enzymes

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Why should they go out and buy a rheostat, when they've already got a thermostat, which is much better in my opinion?

Just so you know, that ceramic heater is going to seriously dry out your tank. It's possible that caused the regurge and not overheating. Get rid of the ceramic heater and the lamp and just go with the UTH.

Is there a reason you're messing with all the lights and heaters instead of just using the UTH? The UTH alone is fine as long as you get the temperature of the 1/3 of the tank it's on around 85ish (temp taken under substrate, above the UTH, not ambient air temp).

First off, thanks for all of the help

Susielea, I was using a basic dial thermometer bought at a pet store. It was set right above the paper towels where the UTH was. The thermostat doesnt appear to be working.

It sounds like several people on here are in favor of a switch to aspen bedding and more importantly just relying on the UTH to keep the snake warm (UTH monitered by a probe like a rheostat). I will definitely have to try that.

In terms of feeding, if the feeding was caused by heat/dryness (RCF, you were right in terms of the ceramic heater was very dangerous in terms of the relative humidity) should i continue feeding it on its normal cycle, which would be tomorrow? (It regurgitated today) The humidity is now back to 45% or so, and I will pick up the aspen bedding tomorrow.

Also, where can I get a rheostat?

A10Airknight said:

First off, thanks for all of the help

Susielea, I was using a basic dial thermometer bought at a pet store. It was set right above the paper towels where the UTH was. The thermostat doesnt appear to be working.

It sounds like several people on here are in favor of a switch to aspen bedding and more importantly just relying on the UTH to keep the snake warm (UTH monitered by a probe like a rheostat). I will definitely have to try that.

In terms of feeding, if the feeding was caused by heat/dryness (RCF, you were right in terms of the ceramic heater was very dangerous in terms of the relative humidity) should i continue feeding it on its normal cycle, which would be tomorrow? (It regurgitated today) The humidity is now back to 45% or so, and I will pick up the aspen bedding tomorrow.

Also, where can I get a rheostat?

Click to expand...

Wait at least 10 days from the date of regurge before feeding again. I know Kathy Love posted a regurge FAQ around here somewhere. Do a search for it. It's chock full of great information.

Ok, will do, but does that rule change for a baby snake at all, or is it the same for adults?

No don't feed tomorrow if he just regurged today!!!!

Here's a link to the health issues/feeding problems FAQ and if you scroll down a little there is Kathy Loves Regurgitation Treatment <- link

I prefer to leave at least 10 days after a regurge before offering the first post regurge meal and make sure it is at least half the size of the regurged meal, so if he is eating defrosted, frozen pinks, then try a pinky head, cut it off while frozen, much less messy

Another thing you want to do, get hold of a digital thermometer with a probe to measure the temperature. The dial ones are insanely inaccurate, even when placed close to the substrate. The probe from the thermometer should be placed under the substrate, over the heat pad along with the probe from the thermostat (you don't need a rheostat if you already have a thermostat, they are both ways of controlling the heat from the mat, but a thermostat is more accurate), then set the thermostat and monitor with the thermometer until you get the warm side to 80-85*F, this will feel slightly cool to you because your body temp is 98*F, so don't rely on your hand to tell how hot it is. The cool side should be in the low to mid 70's.

There's no need to bother with lights, the UTH should be more than sufficient and paper towels are a fine substrate for little ones if you want to stick with them and they are easier to monitor poop, regurge etc.

Also a few more hides would be a good idea, nice small tight fitting ones to make him feel more secure, on both the warm end and the cool end, then he'll have a choice of where is most comfortable

So, have read through the link I gave you, get the temperature stable, refrain from handling for a little while, then in 10 days try another very small feed.

Any problems or more questions, let us know, there's nearly always someone around that can help out

Thanks so much everyone.

where did you get the digital thermometor (Ill get one asap) Also, my thermostat is a Petco one, and I dont know how reliable, should I invest in a better piece of equipment?

Final question, would aspen or paper towels be better?

Aspen - shredded if possible. They love to burrow in it. And you can mound it up or thin it down over the UTH as needed. That will allow as much or as little heat as you need to come through to the baby. If it is still not warm enough, you can cover part of the screen to restrict ventilation.

Until the snake is well established, consider getting rid of everything in the cage except water dish (put in the corner where it is cool), aspen, thermometer, and one, long, skinny hide (such as a paper towel roll cut in half length-wise, to make a tunnel). Put half the hide over the warm spot, and the rest cool. Cut an entrance hole in the middle, on top. Mound the aspen around the open edges. Then you will have one hide that is dark, cramped, and warm on one end and cool on the other. No hide decisions for the little guy, except hot, warm, or cool. I like the old "KISS" rule.

Once the snake is well established without any feeding problems, you can decorate the cage. Also, no unnecessary handling until several feedings in a row with no regurges.

Good luck!

I would listen to Kathy, i remember back in 99' when i got my first corn snake. Her book was the one i read, and followed. Everything went fine other than the little buger gettin out.

Sounds good. Would the basic petco digital thermometer work

I am not familiar with that particular one. Just take it with you to someplace that sells thermometers (maybe Radio Shack?) and see which thermometers display a very similar temp, whether mercury or digital. If there are a couple that exhibit temps quite different than the majority, then the "oddballs" are probably off a little - the majority rules (probably, anyway)!

Then compare yours to theirs after it sits there for a couple of minutes, exposed to the same temps. If it is very close, great! If it is way off, then choose one that shows the same temp as the majority of the others sitting there. Your thermometer doesn't have to be EXACT - corns are not THAT picky! But get one that is accurate within a couple of degrees, if at all possible.

To the OP: I just got one of those basic Petco thermometers the other day, and it's very accurate for me. Your results may vary, but I think it's very much worth the ~$8.

Here is a quick update just to tell everyone what is going on. I started my day by going to Radio Shack and picking up one of thier indoor/outdoor probe thermometers. Linked with the thermostat (which does work, it was the needle thermometer that was messed up) and the undertank heater, I have kept the temperature at the hot end stable at around 84 for an hour or so. This is as stable as the temperature in the cage has ever been.

I also took kathylove's decorating suggestion with the switch to aspen bedding and the paper towel tube. So far, Kevin (snakes name) seems to enjoy it, he has been more active today than he has the past few days (probably b/c he is not baking under the ceramic heater)

Next step is to leave him alone without handling until July 21 (10 days since regurgitation) and try feeding him half of a pinky. Am I missing anything?

Thanks again everyone

It sounds like you're doing pretty darn well. Good luck getting everything back on track!

Yep, I agree, sounds like you got it all covered! (my gut instinct was saying the thermostat was working and that it was the thermometer that was off )

Only other thing I'd add, is to feed the baby in a seperate small feeding container, so he doesn't ingest any substrate

I have an extra container, trying to get him to eat the first time I was perplexed when he wouldnt take the dangling pinky. Turns out the pet store fed him by putting him in a dark box alone with the mouse, he wasnt used to people dangling a pinkie in front of him (or her, dont actually know gender). Eating substrate wont be a problem.

Speaking of substrate, Im assuming its normal for a corn snake to bury itself for hours on end in aspen shavings? I havent seen kevin for a bit lol