Brumation Questions...

I have a few questions about brumating my snakes. I have not brumated my snakes during the winter, yet. I am wanting to brumate them this year (at least my yearlings and older).

I have one yearling that I recently acquired that is a little thin. I am afraid to brumate her. Should I hold off on brumating her until next winter?

I also have a pair of 2001 Cal kings that have become quite picky about eating (one hasn't eaten since 9-14). Is this a sign that they are ready to be cooled? And if so, is it OK to brumate them if they haven't eaten in over a month. The one that hasn't eaten since September was quite a chunky boy, and is still pretty big, by the way.

I also have a milk snake that hasn't eaten since 9-28 due to going through the shedding process. Is it OK to go ahead and brumate her even though she hasn't eaten in a month?

All of my other yearlings and adults ate 2 1/2 weeks ago, so i am ready to start brumating them. Do you let them go for more than 2 weeks before cooling them? Or is 2 weeks sufficient? I am just afraid that I am going to do something wrong since I haven't done this before.

I think I am almost through with my questions. I do want to ask about brumating hatchlings that are problem feeders. I acquired a bunch from a friend. I have gotten some of them eating (I had 52 total counting my own non-feeders. I now have 32). Anyway, I am considering cooling the non-feeders as well. Do I cool them for less time than I would a yearling or adult? If so, then how long do you recommend?

Well, I guess that is about it for now. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm really nervous about this whole brumation thing!

Thanks in advance!

i am no expert on brumation but as long as you give them long enough to clear there gut then corns (and i image kings) are farily tough when it comes to brumation --make sure they have water!(if the water freezes over its to cold j/k). Over here in the uk some breeders cool there corns down to 55f (which i personal feel is a little low but i am sure in the wild they suffer far worse). i aim for between 60 and 65 keeping as close to 65 as possible.
some poeple vary the amount of time of brumation i personally go between 2 months and 3 months depending on the over all condition of the animal in question, again some poeple go for a lot more time - i have personal bred the same snake with and with out brumation and although i dont have an extensive data set i really cant tell the difference. I expect in the long term however it will effect clutch size and also i imagine the over all health of the snake.

ok - here are a few thoughts from my experiences.

I have one yearling that I recently acquired that is a little thin. I am afraid to brumate her. Should I hold off on brumating her until next winter?

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The main reason for brumating is so that they have gone throught the cooling period necessary to make them fertile for breeding the following year. Do you plan to breed this yearling next year? If the animal is thin then you would want to increase their weight before considering breeding anyway. I would probably not brumate this individual this year, and keep them warm, feed them as usual, and brumate them the following year. I have two that I won't be brumating this year due to size.

I also have a pair of 2001 Cal kings that have become quite picky about eating

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I have noticed a slowing down in the feeding responses of some of my adults which I do take as a sign of winding down after the breeding season. If the animals are in GOOD HEALTH, and have GOOD WEIGHT, then there would be no reason at all why you couldn't brumate them.

Do you let them go for more than 2 weeks before cooling them? Or is 2 weeks sufficient? I am just afraid that I am going to do something wrong since I haven't done this before.

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I recently asked this question too. Last year I allowed only 2 weeks before starting to cool, and all snakes came out of a long brumation fine, having lost no weight. The two responses I got when I asked this recently said 3 weeks and 4 weeks. You do need to be sure that they have emptied thier digestive tract. This year, based on those two answers, I am giving them 3.5 weeks before starting to cool.

I'm sorry I can't help you on brumating hatchlings, I have never done this. I would guess that you take a considerably shorter period of time though. Having said that - I have known people who brumate for only a couple of weeks with their adults, and those that brumate the snakes for 5 months, so there is a lot of variability through personal choice.

Skye

Speaking of brumation temps I believe even cooler than 60 is preferable. This allows them to slow down FULLY meaning they lose less weight, if any at all. 65 is close to the borderline when it comes to brumation from all I have read and learned in the past couple years.

I will be brumating my snakes for the first time this year myself. Planning on keeping them between 50-60 the entire time. I am also brumating a small '02 female who is only about 35 inches but I am confident her weight is enough.

bmm

Thanks for all of the replies!

I guess I'll wait a few more days before I really start cooling them...just to be sure they have "cleaned out."

Skye...I do not plan on breeding the thin female next year. I do not believe she will be big enough. I think I will keep her warm and continue feeding her. Thanks for the advice.

As for everyone else, I'll go ahead and brumate them. I probably need the break anyway School has been kind of hectic, and brumating my older snakes and non-feeders will cut my work load down quite a bit.

One more thing...Do I simply monitor weight, and if I see a snake losing more than I think he/she should, do I bring him out of brumation, warm him, and start feeding him sooner than the rest?

bmm...I am brumating all of my 2002 corns (except the thin one). Some of them are a bit smaller than the others, but all of them are pretty close to being 200 grams. I think they will be fine.

Here is a picture of some of my 2002 corns (one creamsicle, one butter, 2 ghost motleys, and 2 normal motleys). Sorry for the "far-away pic." I wanted to be sure to get everyone in it!

I thought you were supposed to start brumation around mid december?
I think thats what it says in the corn manual. This will also be my first year brumating, in the spring i plan to breed my snow and albino stripe.

Here's a question, how long does everyone brumate or plan on brumating for? I am putting mine down december 1st or so.

bmm

I think I have read various things regarding when to brumate as well. I am shooting for the first of November. If all goes well, I will start warming everyone up at the first of February. I will then get everyone well fed and fattened back up for breeding around the end of February/first of March. That means I will have eggs laid around the middle of April/first of May (hopefully!). They should start hatching around the middle of June/first of July (or somewhere around there).

Remember...Kathy Love lives in Florida. It stays warmer there later than where I live. It is already getting down in the 40's at night here in TN. Not many snakes found out in the wild right now...I'd say they are all starting to brumate already.

I have never brumated my snakes totally before never had a need to but I have brumated lizards before and I already put them in so I am thinking I am going to start about Nov. 10 and bring them up early around Feb. as I do with my lizards one question though how much do I feed them during this time? and I am going to do a deep brumatation of around 50-55 to make sure they are totally cooled and ready for march when it comes. Any advise is appreciated!

I stopped feeding my breeders 3 weeks ago, gave them 2 weeks at a slightly higher temp. to help empty gut. Then a week ago I slowly started lowering the temp. a couple of degrees a day till I got to 56f.

When I started lowering the temp. I also stopped useing the strip light in my shed and changed to a 25w glob light bulb on a dimming switch on a 6 hour per day.

1 jan I start to raise the temp. in the shed, 4 jan start to raise temp. of the heat mats.

End of jan /early feb they start to shed. Then we are ready to breed.

I have had lots of sucsess with this meathod for the last 8 years.

CrazyCorn...it is my understanding that you do not feed them at all while they are in brumation. That is why it is SO important to allow the snakes time to empty their gut...the food might rot inside of the snake if there is some left, and it would kill the snake.

That's right. Definitly do not feed them during brumation! You must clean out the gut before brumation, and you don't start feeding again until a couple days/weeks after they come out of brumation usually.

bmm

Are you sure those are ghost motleys? They look more like anerys. Just wondering.

I actually bought them as pastel motleys. In my opinion, they are not pink enough to be pastel motleys. One of them (the darker one) came from Home Grown Herps. I asked him a couple of times about her heritage. I was told that both parents were pastel motleys. The lighter one is from Blue Ribbon Herps. Anyway, I guess I won't know for certain until I breed them.
Here is a close-up of the lighter one...

And a close-up of the darker one...

I thought she was darker than she was supposed to be as well...Home Grown Herps is supposed to be a reputable place to get snakes from. I've never heard any bad things about them....so I am going to trust them. If I do breeding trials, and she doesn't produce ghosts, then I will have to change my mind.

Nice critters! Yes I have a great snake from HGH, and I believe he is honest. Have you asked him what he considers a pastel motley, genetically? Sometimes things just get lost in translation in this "name game". He may feel that a pastel motley is another name for anery motley, so of course that is what he would sell the babies as. I have seen a few people sell anery mots as pastels. Perhaps he aquired the parents from someone who called anery motleys "pastels". I'd just ask him (if you haven't already) if he believes pastel motleys are homo hypo. It may interest you to go to vmsherp.com and look at the descriptions on cornsnake page # 4. There it advertises Anery "A" Motleys aka Pastel Motleys, and Ghost Motleys aka Pastel Pink Motleys. IIRC, "Pastel Motley" was what they were advertised as last year and in the description it said they were anery a and motley (no hypo). Of course, they could very well be just dark ghost motleys, but I just thought you'd like the extra info. The lighter one does look more "ghostly" in the close-up. And I agree, the best way to tell would be to breed them to a hypo or a definate ghost. Have fun, They are nice snakes no matter what!

Thanks! I'm glad you like them

As for asking HGH about the genetic makeup of the dark ghost motley...I did specifically ask if both parents were "ghosts." I was told that "Yes, they were both hypo anerys."

Thanks for the other info as well. I already knew about the conflicting names given to various colors of corns. Too bad there isn't some sort of registry for corn snakes. It would make things a lot easier as far as identifying the snakes.

I don't know if they will be big enough to breed next year (they are a little under 200 grams right now), but as soon as they are, I will definitely be breeding them to a ghost or ghost motley. I may have to wait until 2005 regardless of their size, because my only ghost male is a baby.

I hibernate old males for 3 months. I stop feeding end of October and turn off belly heat in November. Half November I turn off all heat and after a few days I place them in rubbermaid with a waterbowl that is gluewed to the floor (so it won't flip). Then I place the snake in box in a dark unheated room that gets really cold in winter but never freezes. End Februari I put them back in snake room en slowly warm them up. Young males I only turn cage heating off for 4 weeks. Young female will not be cooled.

CornCrazy said:

I may have to wait until 2005 regardless of their size, because my only ghost male is a baby.

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Ugh! I can't believe we are coming up on 2004! I would definately believe Jim about his snakes as well. I bet then that ghost would make really nice anery mots! I wish anery mots did not fade as much as they do. So if your ghost looks like that as an "almost" adult, I wonder if he'd produce anery mots that stayed pretty dark. Nice pattern too.

Here's a question, how long does everyone brumate or plan on brumating for? I am putting mine down december 1st or so.

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I stopped feeding in mid-October. I use both incandescent overhead lights and undertank heat mats with my snakes. After three weeks I turn off the heat mat, and then they have the overhead light for 1 more week. After that I plan to leave them in the semi-warm room for one further week, then move them to the cold room and let them cool further with the room as it gets more winterry.

Last year they started at 60's and went down to 48 F. I weighed them at the beginning, part way through and at the end of brumation. If I was worried about an individual I would weigh each month though. I checked temps and changed water regularly, but other than that I didn't go into the room, and it remained dark. The snakes are taken out of their cages and placed in rubbermaid tubs containing aspen, a hide and a water bowl, and holes drilled for ventilation in the sides of the tubs. As already stated - no food should be offered during brumation.

Last year I brought them out at the end of February, so I let them go for around 5 months with cooler temps and no food. I have successfully brumated corns of around 150g and they have come out having lost no wieght, with a great appetite, and ready for a big growth spurt in the Spring. This is the smallest size I have brumated, but in the wild, even the hatchlings brumate.

Mattsnake - being as your snakes are in captive conditions you can start brumation whenever you like. In the wild it will depend on external temperatures. Most people also brumate to coincide with winter as it saves on air-conditioning costs to cool a warm room.

Some breeders also schedule their brumation with breeding in mind - i.e. how many babies will they have by a certain time or date or show, and hence I know of people who have moved their brumation period to earlier than it used to be in order to have more animals available for sale earlier in the year.

I do have one question if anyone is still reading this far down - when you bring them out of brumation do you warm them up slowly like the reverse of cooling them down, or do you subscribe to the rapid and toasty warm-up?

Thanks, Skye