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I am completely fed up with Flexwatt

TrpnBils

TrpnBils

22 is not enough snakes
I have 4" strips under 1/3 of my green tree tubs, the room temperature is a modest 74 degrees and yet I still can't get the tubs up above 79 degrees (the tape itself is at 95 degrees, which is what Beanfarm suggests as the maximum operating temp). I'm wondering what I have to look forward to this winter when the weather drops to the teens outside.

It's a pretty basic idea, so I think I'm using it right. If I am, I don't know how this company stays in business because the product sucks as far as I can tell.
 
On a side note, I just called Calorique (the producers of Flexwatt) to see if they had any suggestions and talked to a guy named Jim...VERY helpful guy. He gave me some suggestions that I'm going to try out and report back on.

Two things I will say now though:

I've read EVERYWHERE to put the thermostat probe ON the heat tape. He suggested placing it next to the heat tape (he also said that up to 110 degrees is no problem for the tape itself).

I'm not guilty of this, but I did have to laugh when he said "And then there's that guy who says 'oh yeah, secure it with aluminum tape' - If I ever find that SOB I'll knock him on his @ss because that's just a stupid idea. Why would you ever use a conducting tape to secure something electrical?"
 
I know you said that you get the temp of the tape itself, up to 95F. Do you have a thermometer probe, sitting on the bottom of the tub, right over the tape? I hope your not just measuring the ambient temp of the tub.

Wayne
 
TrpnBils said:
On a side note, I just called Calorique (the producers of Flexwatt) to see if they had any suggestions and talked to a guy named Jim...VERY helpful guy. He gave me some suggestions that I'm going to try out and report back on.

Two things I will say now though:

I've read EVERYWHERE to put the thermostat probe ON the heat tape. He suggested placing it next to the heat tape (he also said that up to 110 degrees is no problem for the tape itself).

I'm not guilty of this, but I did have to laugh when he said "And then there's that guy who says 'oh yeah, secure it with aluminum tape' - If I ever find that SOB I'll knock him on his @ss because that's just a stupid idea. Why would you ever use a conducting tape to secure something electrical?"
Click to expand...
Your right. A stupid idea.
I've never had it, Im probably getting some some time soon, or installing a light in my cages, anywho... I hope you get it working!
 
I use aluminum tape and haven't seen a problem. :shrugs: I think that as long as you have the connectors insulated correctly and do not damage the Flexwatt, you should be fine. :shrugs:

Wayne
 
Jeff, one of the hardest things I have ever tried to teach my employees is to figure out what is broken before you start to fix it.

You have said that the flexwatt is up to 95 degrees but the tub isn’t. Has it occurred to you that maybe you need more flexwatt? I mean it isn’t heating your room or you house either. If the flexwatt is up to 95 degrees then it is working perfectly. What are you complaining about? How can you say the product sucks? Thousands of herpers all over the world are using it with great success. Maybe the fault lies with the consumer?
 
I missed that this was for green tree (python, I'm assuming). So you are probably trying to raise the ambient temp of the tub. Is flexwatt effective for that? I haven't used flexwatt, nor do I have experience with raising ambient temps, so I don't know.
 
Awright, I'm in troubleshooting mode here, so don't be offended if I ask some reeeeeeally basic questions. (I have 20 feet of Flexwatt on its way now, so this'll also be a chance for me to learn details about it, too!)

You say the tape is "under the tub". How much of the tub is in contact with the tape? How big is the air gap between the tape and the rest of the tub? Are there drafts or fans in the room that could (in effect) "blow the heat away" (for lack of a better way of phrasing it). How big are the tubs? Is it possible that the tubs are big enough that the effect of the tape is dissipated too far? (See? Told ya these were basic questions!) What I'm shooting for is that heat transfer from something like Flexwatt is pretty danged inefficient if the heat has to jump an air gap, unless the air in the gap is sealed in and motionless. Maybe tuning how things are set up would make a difference?
 
wade said:
Maybe the fault lies with the consumer?
Click to expand...

Not saying it doesn't - the tape itself heats up fine, but if a perfectly normal setup of the tub being 1/4" above the tape then isn't sufficient to heat a 6" x 12" tub, then the alternative must be to simply wrap the snake in it. I'm heating 1/3 of the floor space with no substrate with up to four thermometer probes per tub in one case...two about 2" off the floor, one on the floor above the heat tape, and one along the branches where that particular snake happens to be most of the time. I've read several accounts of people using flexwatt for hatchling GTP tubs so it's by no means groundbreaking or experimental in nature.
 
You are giving me very little information to work with but my first guess is simply that the heat is going someplace other than into the tub. All of my racks are set up with heat tape with the tubs resting directly on the flexwatt. I think that is most often the way it is done. The plastic the tubs are made of is not a very good thermal conductor. I may be that with the air gap under the tub the heat is just working it’s way around the tub and not into it.
 
I'm going to have to ditto what wade said in regards to the heat tape heating up just fine if it's getting to 95*F. I'd add that 4" flexwatt doesn't heat up a lot of space. 11" would probably serve your purpose better. To get ambient heat for a GTP I'd use back heat instead of belly heat as well.

D80
 
what kind of rack is it in. people lately have been saying they were using wire racks. but i always thought that if the heat had a place to escape below itself it would. also have you thought about maybe doubling up. boaphile has a option so you can double up on heat tape on cages and unplug a section when you dont need it and plug it back in when you need it. if you have it under the tub, why not try to use back heat. and put a row of bigger flex watt on the back wall so that you can heat more tubs with one row and itll heat a whole wall that way the snake can get closer to the wall on the perch and get farther away also. floor heat isnt the aim here so back heat could be a lot more successful i would think. i really say try for back heat, and if you dont like that idea try for doubling up.
 
wade said:
You are giving me very little information to work with but my first guess is simply that the heat is going someplace other than into the tub. All of my racks are set up with heat tape with the tubs resting directly on the flexwatt. I think that is most often the way it is done. The plastic the tubs are made of is not a very good thermal conductor. I may be that with the air gap under the tub the heat is just working it’s way around the tub and not into it.
Click to expand...

I've always read that it's bad to put them directly on the flexwatt because it wears through and knocks solder joints or clips around as you put the tubs in and out over time, eventually leading to a short.

Sorry I'm not really replying a lot to the questions asked here but in the middle of all this I'm about 2 1/2 weeks away from getting married so I've got a whole bunch of other stuff going on at the moment. I tried some suggestions given to me by the guy at Calorique so I'm going to give it a few hours and see how the tubs are.
 
TrpnBils said:
Sorry I'm not really replying a lot to the questions asked here but in the middle of all this I'm about 2 1/2 weeks away from getting married so I've got a whole bunch of other stuff going on at the moment.
Click to expand...
Good thing you posted to begin with. Thanks! Good luck on the marriage. Be sure to keep your knees loose during the ceremony. Lock 'em up and you could go down.

D80
 
TrpnBils said:
I've always read that it's bad to put them directly on the flexwatt because it wears through and knocks solder joints or clips around as you put the tubs in and out over time, eventually leading to a short.
Click to expand...

I don't use FW, I use heat cable, but the way Animal Plastics uses FW is to rout it into the shelf, so it doesn't get rubbed on.
 
No luck with the modifications I made last night based on the conversation I had with Calorique yesterday. i'm going to try to switch it to back heat tonight and see what happens. I've never quite understood how back heat would benefit anything in a situation like this though...if we're talking about heat dispersal being the problem here, then how would it help the situation to change the heat tape to vertical at the back of the tubs? Wouldn't all the heat just disperse upwards and go away rather than out into the tub?

Right now it's sitting at 79 degree ambient temps in the tubs in a 75 degree room with the heat tape running at 96 degrees. The snakes have taken to lying on the floor over the heat tape, which would be perfectly fine if they weren't arboreal.
 
I looked at some RHPs online and it looks like they need to be mounted at least a foot away from the nearest cage, so that probably wouldn't help me out at this point. But it's definitely something I'll look into in the future once they're all in adult-sized enclosures.

My setup for these guys is in an old 6x2x2 boa cage that I mounted wire shelves on the inside of...4 tubs per shelf. I have the flexwatt sandwiched between a piece of 1/2" particleboard and the wire shelf (board, flexwatt, shelf, tub from bottom to top). My hope was that by adding the particleboard, it would keep heat from dissipating downwards, but it didn't help. Could the shelves really be absorbing that much heat? I wouldn't think so, but I dunno... If the back heat doesn't work tonight then I'll try mounting the board with the flexwatt on top of the shelves and setting the tubs on the flexwatt with spacers tomorrow.
 
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