*other* reptile care

Something I've noticed on multiple forums that got me thinking about reptile care and what we perceive as right. I hope this will make since, I'm not the best at expressing things.

Lets say a member wants a new pet, we'll use a bearded dragon as an example since they are a common pet. Members who own beardies will chime in with care and tips, tell you how they have raised their dragon.
So far so good but the new dragon owner want to learn more so they find a bearded dragon specific forum, only to come back with horror stories about how mean the members are on the dragon forum, about how they got "told off" for the way they are caring for/feeding the dragon and decided its better to take the advice of their respected snake owner friends instead of dedicated dragon owners.

Now, lets turn this around. Say a member from the dragon forum gets a new corn snake, of course they will get plenty of advice on the "proper" snake care from other dragon owners but decide to find a corn snake specific forum. So they come here or to a similar site only to get grilled for improper care and taking advice from people who don't really know snakes.

Why is it, dragon owners can be so picky about dragon care but take whatever crappy advices about snakes (or any reptile for that matter) that is thrown there way.
The same can be said about snake people who keep dragons in less then ideal conditions because so and so had done its like that for 500 years?
Shouldn't all reptiles we keep be kept to the highest standards and not just "what works"?
Snakes shouldn't be cohabited and neither should dragons but I know members here keep their dragons together, why not keep your snakes together too?

This post isn't aimed at the dragon owners on here, I just saw a horrible post about corn snakes on a dragon forum and it got me thinking. Its not just dragon and snakes either, you should see the advice on reptile care that comes from tarantula forums *shudders*

It's difficult to get good advice.

Its easy to see someone keeping something successfully and take what they say as gospel. Its up to the person doing the research to take all the advice they offered then apply their common sense. Taking advice humbly also seems to negate the 'getting drilled' portion of the crit. Without good crit you'll never know where you're going wrong.

This brings me to another story - I bought a Curly hair T in March at a show on impulse. I was informed by the breeder that it was a desert T and given specific care requirements. I then got home and spent hours researching only to find that I was given bad advice. By the breeder! Can't trust anyone hey.

I think for the most part people take things to personally.

They get so used to high fives, pat's on the back, and 'yes sirs', etc...
Then they visit another site for care on their newly acquired animal species. When people critique and offer advice on how to better care for their new animal it is not the high fives and pats on the back that they are used to...and if they don't know how to handle criticism they see it as an attack on them personally, rather than people trying to help.

I guess I understand why people will leave a site if they get "critiqued" too hard, my real concern is with people giving out substandard care advice. If you care enough about your snakes to learn every little thing about them and use the standard care practices, why wouldn't you do the same with you other reptiles? Why be a supreme example of a snake keeper but a poor dragon owner?
Do the reptiles that are your "passion" rate higher then other reptiles? Tarantulas are my true passion but I spend as much time on the snake and dragon forums as I do on the tarantula forums.

@funnynonsense, how are you caring for your curly hair now? Almost every care sheet online for tarantulas is wrong and they are indeed a desert species, well a arid scrub land species if you want to get technical.

I think people should look at the way they are critiquing. Not everyone knows everything all the time. Give your critique in a helpful manner not a cruel for lack of better words bitchy manner. I've personally been on the bad end of a tantrum just because I didn't know something((not here)). I know it now but at the time it could have been said a lot more elegantly. Most people don't need to be yelled at or bitched at to get the point. Tell me what is wrong,politely explain why it's wrong and other people voice their opinion. I have my animals best interest at heart but never expect to know everything or be perfect and when I get yelled at that just puts me off from the site and the people.

maybe its that people want to try and help out, but just dont really know so they give so so advice. i know im a snake and dragon owner and i know this isnt the point your making. all of my species are very well cared for. i dont take all the advice on dragons to heart though. i tried keeping them on tiles and stuff for example, but they prefer aspen. and thats a sin in the dragon world because you have to treat them like babies and tuck them in at night and make sure they get daily baths. mine get weekly/sub weekly baths or when needed. and they make their own nest at night to sleep in. i dont think they need babied, and they like it more. they can hunt their food not eat it off tongs, they can dig if they want, run around and jump off whatever they please. but they arent housed together or really ever let out together long. i like to keep up most specific care on my animals, but i like to try out other things, and a lot of them seem to work just as good, or better for me than what the standard is.

but then you come here to a corn snake forum and theres still people that care just as much about all of their animals no matter the species, and they also like to give out advice to help out. many dont know all the species theyre talking about but they do give out their advice and they do know some and what works for them and its not that they dont care, its that this is how they do it, and it works. its not for a lack of better words being not as husbandry specific for what every care sheet by the best breeder on the animal says. its what works for them. not every animal is the same or kept under the same conditions. some are kept very well and are under opposite conditions than what is said by the forum. forums arent always right and giving out the best advice. not saying theres not a lot of good info on the net. but not gonna say its the bible and you have to live right by it either.

I try to take the best possible care of all of our animals... anything less and I should not own them. Does that mean I don't make mistakes?? Hell no... but I try my hardest, and so does Tara. As far as the sub-standard care you get at other forums for non-specific species... I really cannot say. I have not experienced that in my travels, really.

I think the reason people on species-specific boards are so critical are because they care so much! I've been a member of a wide-variety of boards and can verify this effect from rabbits to parakeets to greyhounds. I think its a good thing, as long as the new owner is open and willing to listen to advice. It is easier said than done though, and there have been a few times where I've felt slightly insulted or ridiculed... but when you remember its all about the PETS and remove your emotions (and pride), there is a lot of good information to be learned!

@pwargcm, I think you are closest to understanding what I'm trying to say. I completely agree with some people going too far with dragons, like blankies and spoon feeding but why would you keep your dragons on a unsafe substrate just because they "like" it? There are safer things to use that they could dig in.
The next thing I'm asking isn't me being a smart butt, its something I'm truly curious about.
If you seen someone keeping a corn snake on millet and using a heat lamp and they told you the snake likes it, would you be happy with that answer or would you try to correct their mistakes? or lets say a member askes for advice on their new baby dragon, would you recommend aspen knowing its reputation for being unsafe?
If we as reptile keepers, decide to veer from the norm, do you pass you way of doing things on to newbies or tell them safer way to do things?

waldo said:

If we as reptile keepers, decide to veer from the norm, do you pass you way of doing things on to newbies or tell them safer way to do things?

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If a veering from the norm occurs (case in point-- Tara and I DO feed our snakes in containers, on aspen, however we take precautions to ensure that no substrate is swallowed and that cage aggression is minimized by regular handling) I may offer my own technique, but I also explain why and exactly how it is done, and typically will reccomend to a newb that they stick with the status quo until they get the hang of things.

Does that make sense? I hope so.

lol. no offense was taken. but theres no proof in that aspen is bad for beardies. if you can find me literature from someone who has studied beardie impaction and prove that aspen is bad ill believe it. i dont say it should be used for babies, i kept mine on paper until they reach 14 inches. if im not mistaken beardies are not a dumb animal. yes they lick everything. they dont "eat" everything. mine have not once eaten a piece of aspen. as for saying beardies lick everything i can see how sand is a problem. i can see corns and millet being bad. but heat mats are amazing but a heat lamp could work just as good. its not bad husbandry just cause you use a different heat source. not gonna argue that heat mats or uth/flexwatt is where its at for terrestrial snakes. and heat panels are the way to go for arboreal. theres a lot of dos and donts. but most people have never tried aspen for their beardie because its a no no on a board. but if you think about it its a chunk of wood. a beardie isnt gonna chew it up and eat it unless its dumb. mine only eat stuff thats good for them cause they know whats food and isnt. they also have a water bowl. i was told this is a no no for a dragon when i joined the dragon forum. i see mine drink all the time from them. not a lot but they do use them. so why would someone not include water. i dont find that right at all.

If you seen someone keeping a corn snake on millet and using a heat lamp and they told you the snake likes it, would you be happy with that answer or would you try to correct their mistakes?

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I'd correct the notion that a Corn Snake "likes" anything, but plently of people keep them successfully using heat lamps (I'm a UTH-user myself). Using a heat lamp isn't a mistake.

I think the main issue is that self-appointed experts (and yes, I count myself in there on occasion) have trouble with the grey areas. For every Corn owner, there will be a slightly different way of doing things - it's sometimes painful to realise that my way isn't the only or "right" way.

Sometimes there is no "right" way - just what works for you. Unless a particular husbandry practice is downright dangerous for the Corn, then this is something that folks sometimes wrestle with.

I know for me, I relied on the advice of the pet store where we got our first corn(big mistake I know). They fed live in the cage, and said it would be fine for us to do also.
It wasn't until I found this site that I found out about f/t and feeding in another bin and the reasons why.
I consider many members here to be experts and I trust that they have learned either through others or by personal experience and trust that they would give advice on the care of corns because they truly care about the snakes and the snake community.

bitsy said:

I'd correct the notion that a Corn Snake "likes" anything, but plently of people keep them successfully using heat lamps (I'm a UTH-user myself). Using a heat lamp isn't a mistake.

I think the main issue is that self-appointed experts (and yes, I count myself in there on occasion) have trouble with the grey areas. For every Corn owner, there will be a slightly different way of doing things - it's sometimes painful to realise that my way isn't the only or "right" way.

Sometimes there is no "right" way - just what works for you. Unless a particular husbandry practice is downright dangerous for the Corn, then this is something that folks sometimes wrestle with.

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I'm glad you brought up the heat lamp/uth scenario...... Lots of people on here quote that corns need belly heat and a heat lamp isn't the right way to do it....
Sure heat lamps are better for arboreal species as a heat mat won't get the air in the branches warm enough, and as corns tend to be ground dwellers a uth is a better way to ensure your snake is warm enough to digest, but thats it..... As long as your cornsnake is at the correct temps neither is right or wrong..... Just one is more effecient than the other.
I feel that advice is given out and regurged until it becomes a fact set in stone. I use uth in the racks as it's the only way to heat a rack successfully, but I prefer ceramics for vivs as they are easier to maintain. I find uth don't penetrate the wooden floor of the viv and placing them inside is a pain (and I don't trust electricity and water together). Plus you have to take the temps on top of the substrate, what happens when the snake removes the substrate?