2+ snakes in same cage?

I didn't know where to put this so I decided to post it here. I have one female (I think) creamsicle corn about 17 or so inches long in a pretty big tank (I dont know what gallon but its about 2.5 feet long by about a foot wide by about a foot high). I would like to get another corn but I don't think I would have enough money (I'm only in 8th grade so I don't have a job) for a whole another setup (heat,cage, etc.) or enough room for another setup. I've heard that it's not the best idea to house two corns together because there is a possibility of cannibalism or they just wouldn't like each other. But do you think since my snake is still pretty young and if I would get another small corn it would be ok? I want another snake and I'd like to put them in the same cage but I just wanna make sure it would be an ok idea. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks in advance

Adam

Adam, corn snake can be addicting, but I would not house them together. It will stress the snakes and there is a chance one will eat the other. It is more likely they will do this when they are young, than when they are older (over a year).

If you really want another corn, save your money and buy him another cage. I know it may take a while, but just imagine how you'd feel if you came home and one of your snakes ate the other.

I would disagree with you there. Unless you're looking at hybrid Corns (x with Ruthvens for example) then they aren't cannibalistic. Keeping two corns of a comparable size together in a roomy enough viv is perfectly acceptable. There is onlly one stipulation, however. Separate them when feeding. Don't ever feed them in the same enclosure as they will have different feeding habits and it's not uncommon for one corn to start on the back-end of a mouse being eaten by another corn (I've seen this happen) and it's no fun trying to separate them! This is the only time cannibalism may occur in normal corns as they get carried away and may continue eating the mouse and the corn at the other end.

Cornfan,

I'm sorry, but you're mistaken about normal corns (non-hybrids) not being cannibalistic. It most definitely DOES happen, and though the instance is semi-rare, it happens with enough frequency to warrant separate housing for all corns outside of breeding introductions.

Feel free to examine the following link, which shows the pictures of what sometimes happens when younger corns are housed together. Here's the link.

No, no..and no.

What is this compulsion for people to house corns together all of a sudden? I just don't understand it. You pay all that money for a snake, and then intentionally do an ignorant thing with it. *shakes head*

There are many reasons why corns, or snakes in general, should not be house together, let me list a few:

- Cannibalism
- Stress (a big unknown for snakes)
- Disease transmission
- One snake having a problem and you not knowing which one it is
- Accidental breeding that can jeopardize the female's life
- Etc etc etc

The only time my snakes are together are for a brief breeding encounter or a group photo shot. That's it.

Follow this link to another thread about the same exact thing:

Link on Housing Multiple Snakes

thx...

I am kind of new at snakes and never mated them or anything, but I thought when you do, it was fine to keep the babies together. So do you guys seperate all the newborns even into seperate cages?

Adam

Yep.

When I hatched out my clutch of 13 in August, I didn't want to take a chance and didn't leave them together like some do till after their first sheds. Mine immediately got separated into their own containers.

Yeah...I would definitely recommend separating all snakes, although I've heard of more babies eating other babies than adults eating adults.

I'm from Denmark, Europe, and I've been asking around on the danish reptile forum about how the members have their cornsnakes. In our country it's very common to have 2-3 or more cornsnakes together, and I havn't heard from anybody who have had problems yet.
Some even have them with other types of ratsnakes.

Do you think it's because our snakes here are all captive bred for generations? I can imagine that it's many many years since there have been imported cornsnakes from the wild.

I find the same thing on UK forums but it's nothing to do with our snakes being more tolerant to cage mates, it's simply ignorance. I have stated many times on the UK forums that housing together is not a good idea but it just goes in one ear and out the other. people don't want to hear something that will make them sound wrong/ spend more money etc etc.

I`m not sure whether it is a case of people not wanting to spend more money or of sounding wrong. I think people will make a decision based on what information they`ve gathered whether it be from the web, forums, books etc. Nasty things can and do happen .. be it cannabalism or snakes being stressed out, but if someone chooses to do something different surely thats up to them? If they`ve been cautioned (not castigated!) on the pros and cons of a certain issue, then the final decision rests with them as to what they do.

I don`t think people are being ignorant. Thats why they ask questions. They want information before they do things. Isn`t that better than doing something `blind`? I know it sounds like I`m being argumentative but it worries me when people who are just asking advice seem to get frowned upon for doing something that appears wrong to others.

We are all individuals, as are our snakes. I appreciate people have differing views but I do feel sometimes that some people tend to think their views matter more than others. As I said, a lot of people come here for advice .. not to be told they are ignorant or stupid.

Mayte2

I know where you're coming from and I agree that alot of people are quite harsh in their posts. The posts I'm referring to are ones where people are not asking questions as such, simply debating the topic. These are people who already keep snakes together. I usually try to give 'newbies' the answers the want, even if it is a question that has been asked a thousand times.

In the posts where I refer to people being ignorant, I still maintain that. They keep snakes together and get angry when I ask them how it is of any benefit to their snakes. Simply because there is no benefit.

Whatever one's position on the one snake or multiple snakes per cage issue, most people agree that it's a poor idea to put a newly purchased snake in with a healthy, established snake. Because the new snake may bring in disease, parasites or mites and infect the healthy snake. It's a really good idea to have a new snake in quarantine in a separate cage and preferably in a separate room. I don't recall the time length recommended in The Corn Snake Manual. IMHO, a month is absolute minimum, and three months would be much safer. More than six months is probably overkill. IOW, you need a separate cage for the quarantine period whatever you do later.

People who house any species of snake together are doing so for one reason....

They are CHEAP.

Why have I come to this comclusion you ask? Well because. There is not ONE, read again, not ONE reason that is beneficial to the snakes to house them together. Not one tiny reasons.

So you are doing NOTHING for the snakes by housing them together.

That leaves us with the choice to house together being for people. Which means it's either people feel its time consuming to clean to cages, but I don't think so. It only takes seconds. People think its "cute" to house animals together. Or because they are too cheap to provide double heating systems, caging etc.

Frankly people who house together automatically get a crap check mark beside their name in my head. I would not only prefer to talk herps with someone other than people like that, I would really REALLY have to think about purchasing ANYTHING from someone who houses together. Its just TACKY, unhealthy, cheap and simply going against the snakes nature.

bmm

I agree paulh .. separation for quarantine is sensible. Our two corns get on very well .. as a result, we are going to wait till they are a bit older to see if they will be compatible in a viv together .. if they aren`t, i.e. one or other starts to get stressed or seem to be unhappy then they will be separated again. We`ll just see how it goes .. after all, there are no hard and fast rules are there?

May I also add .. its not because we are cheap. Its not because we can`t be bothered to clean out two vivs and its not bcause we think its `cute`. And you won`t have to worry about purchasing anything from us because we won`t be breeding them (they are both males, so unless someone has a way of breeding two males??? I think its impossible .. but what do I know .. I`m only a newbie!!) Its simply beacuse its something we want to do. We have taken note of all the advice and will be feeding them separately and as I said .. if they are unhappy, they will be put back into a viv each.

As I said in my previous post .. I do feel that some people think their views matter more than others. Did I also say something about people being frowned upon because they do something someone disagreees with? I certainly feel frowned upon now!!!

Mayte2

ok. thx for all the replys guys. I will make sure not to house snakes together if i ever get that many. I was just wondering and I thank all of you again for your great advice! This cornsnake forum has been so much help !!!

Adam

Is it just me or is it starting to get a bit heavy on here?.........Are we all going to end up hurling insults at people who do things we don't agree with. People have already been referred to as "cheap" and "ignorant" in this thread. What's coming next?

We all keep snakes for "people" reasons, otherwise they would still be in the wild. It's not natural for a snake to be kept in a thermostatically controlled, centrally heated box with a constantly replenished supply of fresh water and a freezer full of food. It's not natural for a snake to be selective about it's mate to see what interesting colour or patterned offspring they can produce. It's not natural for a snake to be handled, or medicated or any of the things we do for them. Ultimately it's all for us!

Personally I would not keep snakes together, but many people do, and successfully so. We cannot say they are wrong for doing so, just that they do things differently. All we can do is point out the risks and dangers and allow people to make their own decisions based on that knowledge, their own assessment of the risks involved and their own experience. Hurling insults is much more counter-productive than reasoned argument.

Come on guys.....Lets keep it civil please!

Blue

I agree. It was getting kind of "heated" in this thread.

Adam

Actually its not heated, its just that my opinion and the opinion of thousands of other snake keepers is not the same as yours.

"Did I also say something about people being frowned upon because they do something someone disagreees with? I certainly feel frowned upon now!!!"

Its not about "being different" or all ways can work. Its about an OBVIOUS risk factor. Its not about we keep them for human reasons so why not just force them to live against their nature? Wow thats really beneficial for the snakes.

Snake keeping is about keeping a colubrid in a situation that best brings out the natural health and long life of these animals. It's not about going against the way nature designed them (thats WHY they live in controlled vivs! not because it just is something we do!) Nature has choosen these creatures to be almost 100% solitray animals with a few species specific exceptions. (i.e. garters)

You all do what you want, and continue keeping how you want. Good luck to you all. But the bottom line is, more and more and more people are realizing housing together is not what the past generations though it was. Hundreds of people in the past year alone have changed their mind in threads I myself have read. Why is this? Well I guess its because there is not ONE reason bebenfical for the snakes to do so. Continue on how you wish but for me, I prefer to not "take the chance" and hope they aren't stressed, get disease passed, or regurg without you knowing who. I prefer to take the obvious risk free method that is becoming more and more popular as our hobby evolves.

Again, not heated. Its called discussion. Good luck to you all. And like I said I keep this way, you dont have too, but for me the choice is so obvious there is not a choice.

bmm

Some opinions on this just for information value folks. Don't worry nothing is getting "heated" just chill and check out some cool info. I didnt really go in depth just a couple simple pages of the many out there and available in different reading materials.

(Number three)
http://www.austinherpsociety.org/caresheet1.html

http://www.exoticpetvet.net/reptile/socialize.html

Good night to you all.

bmm