How to stun or kill mice?

[Interested]

Um I will be getting my first corn on the 21st and I dont have a lot of freezer space, so frozen mice must be limited. How does one go about stunning or killing a live fuzzie/mouse? Keep in mind I am really trying to avoid violence and blood! I really dont want to like, slam its head on a table or whatever.....is that the only way?:awcrap:

[Darin Chappell]

I have found it to be the most effecctive way to kill/stun a mouse, but if you are uneasy about using the "table method," some have mentioned using a pencil instead. I have never used the method, myself, so it is possible I have this wrong. However, I believe that you hold the mouse by the tail, then pin its head down with a pencil (or other similar object) just behind the base of the skull. Then, swiftly give a small jerk on the tail, and the spinal column is dislocated from the head, killing the mouse quickly.

I have heard that it takes a bit of trial and error to perfect this method, and some have inadvertantly pulled the mouse's head off in the process. Even so, I understand it to be very effective, when done correctly.

As an aside, you might find the following information interesting concerning the humaneness of the "whacking" method I use:

"A blow to the head can be a humane method of euthanasia for . . .animals with thin craniums, . . .if a single sharp blow delivered to the central skull bones with sufficient force can produce immediate depression of the central nervous system and destruction of brain tissue."

Under the heading of "Euthanasia by a blow to the head" in the Report of the AVMA Panel on Euthanasia, p. 681

Just a thought ...

[Neumann]

I spoke to a keeper who says he puts the mouse in a paper sack and throws it against a hard wall. I've never done it myself.

[Russsss]

I feed live. I figure it's good exercise for the snake and, hey, it's going on all the time in nature. May be a little upsetting to our human sensibilities but that's why they call them animals.

[Darin Chappell]

Well, THIS won't take long now . . .

:twohammer

[Taceas]

Heh, I can hear it now..Russssssss you've opened up a can of worms you oughtn't have.

:argue:

[tyretosmom]

I was thinking the exact same thing!

Jaimee

[Alicia]

I'm really surprised no one has responded yet. Must be a record.
This topic is usually sure to get tempers going:realhot:

:eatsmiley

[MegF.]

O.K. I'll do it! Feeding live is not about squeemishness, it's about safety for your snake. Live mice, can and do fight back, and you risk serious injury, or even death if you don't at least stun or kill. F/T is even better. Yes, in the wild, snakes eat live. Horses manage in the wild too, but they do better in captivity. Lifespans in the wild are nothing to crow about, and if we can do things to make it safer, and more healthy for our snakes....so much the better. O.K......off the box now.:p

[sumguy]

may have saw this at KS but someone said they used a stun gun. anyone tried this yet?

[CAV]

someone said they used a stun gun.

Shocking! I'm stunned that anyone would try. :D

[PSYCOSNAKEMOM]

I am an avid DO NOT FEED LIVE Snaker. BUT on occassion I guess I need a reminder...because STUPID me was in a hurry and threw a live in the feeding tub with Beanie. That little sh** of a mouse grab her by the side as soon as Beanie got her. I'm pounding on the head of the mouse, GOOD THING Beanie didn't response to my interference and stupipidy. She just kept on squeezing, if she had pulled back I believe the mouse would have gotten a better hold on her. As it turns out the mouse didn't break skin enough to draw blood, just got a thin layer of shed:crying: . I prayed to the goddess to forgive me. DON'T FEED if you're on the way out the door and in a hurry. (That's my advise to me.) I have a few small containers that I throw the mice in and then throw into the freezer either the day before or a few hours before feeding. Then thaw and feed as usual. Cuts down on space problems. I have often read on this site about co2 as a quick death solution. Did I get the compound right???? YES I was surprised that this didn't get more heated. I guess you can only state your opinion so many times before you start to bore even yourself. ;) Sam ~~~~~:~

[Darin Chappell]

Originally posted by CAV
Shocking! I'm stunned that anyone would try. :D

You were really charged up there, weren't you CAV??? It's OK, though. I won't be giving you any static about it! Just keep me current on your future sparkings.

:D

[CAV]

Darin,

We should probably watch our conduct before someone threatens battery!

I do have one question: If the charge isn't ample is there a revolt?



:D

[Alicia]

Originally posted by CAV
Shocking! I'm stunned that anyone would try. :D

I don't know it's kind of sparked my interest:p

[Interested]

lol, thanks for the input. Um, how hard should I whack the sucker? Light whack?Medium whack? Hard whack?:smash: and could I take a live mouse, put it in a bag and freeze it?

[Interested]

oh, and is it an okay idea to feed it anoles? Just once in a while, not all the time?

[moreptiles]

I imagine that this has been mentioned here a hundred times before, but you can make your snake think he has a live mouse ( ie Fake Live). A snake, especially the females, get valuable exercise by constricting the food. This can help prevent egg binding. But you can do the same thing with f/t by making the snake think it is alive. All of my snakes will constrict on a dead mouse just as if it were alive if I just keep moving the mouse after they grab it. The longer you keep wiggling the mouse, the harder and longer they constrict.

They might even constrict your finger for awhile so you can get the "live mouses" perspective.

Mark;)

[Taceas]

For mice, I usually find a medium whack to the head to suffice. I have my special whacking spoon for the job. If you whack too hard you have a mess to clean up. They have pretty thin skulls and it'll be over quickly. One note I should add, keep hold of the tail afterwards. Their "death kicking" will propel them clear off the work station. =P

I wouldn't recommend freezing for larger mice. They can live with it longer and it just prolongs the suffering in my opinion. I think freezing is ok for pinks up to fuzzies, but anything past that needs whacked.

As for anoles, I would say no. Some corns require anoles just to get jump started feeding on mice. There's the off chance that your snake will become addicted to anoles and that not only is expensive, but can be bad nutrtionally for the snake. Anoles don't have the same nutrition that a lab-type of mouse does and they can harbor reptile parasites that your snake can get. So all in all, its not recommended.

Depending on the size of your snake, for variety some people feed theirs rats of appropriate size or even chicks as well. But I think I speak for the majority here on not feeding anoles to your snake. I'm sure I'm not alone in my own collection where I have two snakes that require me to scent mice with anoles just to get them to eat. They'd starve if they didn't have that beautiful anole scented food.

Hope that helps. =)

[Interested]

thanks! How do you get the mice to smell like an anole? And, where do you find the cheapest frozen mice on the web?

[CAV]

How do you get the mice to smell like an anole?

Are you curious about the technique or are you deliberately wanting to feed a scented mouse?

[Interested]

curious about the technique. I have seen things on the web that are scented as various things so I was wondering if thats what people used when they needed to trick their snake or whatever. I hope to not have a finnicky eater so I would not do anything which may cause that!

[Taceas]

If your snake is successfully feeding on mice, then I wouldn't even bother with scenting the mice. That's only reserved for snakes who would rather starve to death than eat a mouse. It can have the same effect as feeding an anole, addiction. What we all like to eat the most is probably not the best for us. Me? Nothing beats a Snickers bar. And you have to think about scenting itself, what if the mouse that particular day smells more mousy than anoley, then you've got a problem on your hands.

Just stick with the mice and you'll be fine. Like I said if you want variety, order some appropriately sized rats or some frozen/thawed chicks.

As for online suppliers of mice, I use Big Cheese Rodent Factory. They're a touch more expensive than some others, but you get what you pay for in my opinion. BCRF vacuum packs the mice, they're super clean, and healthy looking. For pinks and fuzzies, I raise my own as it's easier for me. But I do order the larger sized mice.

[Interested]

cool, I was thinking of raising my own pinkies and stuff. I used to breed hamsters so it would be nothing new, but I just hate cleaning rodent living spaces! I have a hedgehog, and that is enough for me in the rodent department!

[MegF.]

I had posted a question about that, or using those mouse traps that shock and kill. I use those to get mice at the barn, they run off a couple of D batteries, and kill instantly. They just step on the plate inside and boom, it's over.

[Russsss]

I should have been more specific on the "feeding live" issue. My snake is eating medium sized fuzzies which offer no danger to the snake as far as I can tell.
When I had my boas and they were eating rats, I used to kill them first.
There, I've come down on both sides of the issue!

As for the stun gun: I'm going to have to meditate on that one for awhile. Ohm.....Ohm......

[Darin Chappell]

"Ohm.....Ohm......"

That's odd, Russ!

I didn't take you for a resister! But it is better to be positive rather than negative about the situation! After all, we're all trading on the same circuit, aren't we?

[Russsss]

Actually I'm getting board:cheers:

[natural_angel33]

OK, so I have a few comments on this situation. :)

I kill the mice with CO2 gas because it is the most humane method. I put them in an airtight container and pump in the gas through a piece of aquarium tubing that has been "hotglued" to a whole in the lid of the container to create an airtight seal. Then I pump a slow stream of CO2 (same as in a paintball gun cartridge) until all the mice are not breathing anymore. THis method makes the mice fall asleep, and stops their hearts without any pain whatsoever. It only takes about 30 seconds may for several pinkies, and about 5 minutes for small adults. THe nice thing about this method, too, is that you can kill several mice at once rather than one at a time.

As for freezing while alive... this is not a good idea for mice of any size. Not only is it cruel but it doesn't always work. Most freezers aren't cold enough to get the job done. And then you have to kill them another way anyway!

I have occasionally fed live pinkies/fuzzies to my snakes, but it bothers me because if the snake starts at the tail end, they squeak the whole way down... maybe I'm just overly sensitive. I mean I'm no member of PETA or anything, and I do believe in the "circle of life" and all that, but why cause the food undue suffering when it isn't necessary?

As for live feeding, I did that at first when I didn't know any better. (A friend of mine fed live and so I figured that's what I was supposed to do.) I hated it, and then I found out why and how prekilling should be done. I heard a story of a mouse biting a snake on the head, killing it instantly, even while it was being constricted. I'm thankful that didn't happen to any of mine, and so now I prekill 90% of the time.

That's just my 2 cents.

[Interested]

how much does co2 cost? co2 doesnt hurt the snake?
I dont mind feeding mice to snakes as long as they are white. Its weird, but I just feel like a brown, red or black mouse is for being a cute pet, while white mice are destined to be food. White mice are cute to but whatever, you gotta do what ya gotta do. It will be quite an interesting experience when I stun/kill my first mouse. My snakes are tiny so are gonna eat pinkies for a little while.

[tyretosmom]

I always thought of the brown mice as wild ones (the ones that get in your house and you have to catch) and the white as pets.. all though I would probably never have a pet mouse.

[Interested]

I look at white mice like lab creatures...bred for one thing. I had one as a pet once. I trained it to walk across a "tight rope" when music played, for a science project. Then he died. He was red. I coudnt feed a guinea pig or hamster to any snake though, they are definite pets. Rabbits are another story cuz they're like white mice(in my mind).

[CAV]

Was there a reason for not being able to feed frozen and thawed mice?

I'm sorry if you have already answered this but all these threads start to run together.

[Darin Chappell]

I believe the originator of this thread stated:

"I dont have a lot of freezer space, so frozen mice must be limited."

I can relate...

:headbang:

[Interested]

me? I just got my snakes today, so I have not fed them. But I used to have a ball python and the first time I ever fed it I used a small brown fuzzie and it was heart wrenching....so I switched to white...didnt use frozen then cuz I was young and stupid, and barely knew how to care for it. Right now my new snakes are little and should be eating pinks, but eventually I may freeze my own mice. Regardless, I am going to make sure the mouse is dead....oh a question

what about baby chicks? When you get them frozen do they have beaks? It seems like a beak could hurt a snake even if the chick is dead...
sorry for all the q's I am OCD when it comes to making sure I am caring properly for my pets.:)

[So Pirate55]

If ur snakes are good eaters, which shouldnt be any problem with propper care, then you should just go the F/T route. It's much easier and safer. Save urself the trouble of worrying with everything else and go f/t pinkies, fuzzies, & mice.

[Interested]

maybe, but its expensive so right now I am just breeding the buggers and I will freeze some of the ones I breed. I have a vacuum sealer so you know. But I pay for crix and silkworms and lights and vets and a whole rack of other stuff, so I will just deal with the mice myself. If it gets to be too much in the long run I most likely will switch, but its cool right now. I need some practice being little bunny foo foo anyways. Boppin em on the head... :p

[So Pirate55]

I need some practice being little bunny foo foo anyways. Boppin em on the head.

for some sick and prolly twisted reason, i actually found that funny.

[Interested]

lol, good. I meant it to be funny!:laugh: :smash:

[syco]

Well, I hate the mouse killing thing too, but you know what they say "Hare today, Goon tomorrow!" LOL!

[PSYCOSNAKEMOM]

I can't stop laughing and the new icons only increase my pleasure. I will buy the brown mice from the dealer because he cuts the price. He says that people have a "thing" about brown mice? I guess some of you know about that ;) I love the idea of getting mice on ice at a sale price...but when I order from RodentPro, often I will have a mixed bag of white and dark "meat" lol . Sam ~~~~~~~:~

[natural_angel33]

Sorry so long in replying...

CO2 is very inexpensive. It is however a little bit of a hassle to get started with. If you get a big tank, like the size divers use for oxygen, the tank can be expensive, like $50-$75 unless you get it on eBay. ;) But filling it is only like $25, and depending on how many mice you kill at the same time, you can use it for months! (A little goes a long way.)

You can also use the CO2 canisters for paintball guns. They have less CO2, and I'm not sure if you can refill them, but they are definately cheaper.

However, I would say it was an investment, especially if you have a fairly large breeding facility, and would pay for itself over time, even if only for less hassle when killing the mice.

As for safeness, the big mouse breeders use CO2, as it is quick, and harmless for snakes. The CO2 does not affect the snakes at all.

[sumguy]

paintball tanks are typically 9,12,16, or 20oz. and can be refilled at certain sporting goods stores or your local paintball facility for a buck or two (regardless of size). while you're there, play a round or two - its a blast :fullauto: till you get hit close range :awcrap: