My hatchling is STILL not eating.. Bad breeder?

[Foxide]

Okay. I've had my hatchling for almost a month now, I got him at one month old and he was +- 8 grams. He hasn't eaten one meal since he's been here and I've tried pretty much everything. He also isn't being handled for anything more than 2 minutes for weighing. I've called the "reputable" breeder I got him from and asked whether or not he was eating F/T while he was there, and their answer was "We don't know. If we had live at the time he got live, if we had F/T then his meals were F/T", which leads me to suspect he's only eaten live before. I've also since found out that most of the breeder's snakes and bearded dragons have problems feeding and that they're probably only reputable to people who know them personally. The reptile community here isn't so big so it's not easy to find a breeder and even harder to make sure they're credible, and it looks like I got caught out.

So after this new information.. Should I try a live pinkie? I know it's not safe to feed live, but can a pinkie do any serious damage? He's only 5 grams now and I'm hoping it's easier to get a snake that likes live onto F/T than it is to get a snake that doesn't eat at all to eat.. The breeder told me to "just bring him back and take another snake" but I've had Caddie for almost a month now and he's not disposable like that to me.

So yeah, any advice or suggestion at this point would help. I'm worried sick.

I can only hope that this doesn't happen too often, it's really stressful when it's your first snake.

One more thing, can someone tell me what this is?

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af317/clairebear121/huh.jpg

I found it in Caddie's water dish, and it doesn't look like normal feces to me.. Then again, I'm still really inexperienced, haha.

[omni]

Looks like poo in the water there. Yes, I would try a live pinkie, as they can't really do anything to your snake. When the prey gets older, then the risk of injury to your snake goes up. Set the live pinkie and your snake in the feeding tub alone for maybe 2 hrs, and hopefully it'll have eaten the pinkie. Have you tried slitting F/T pinkies for him? There are other tips members can give you here to help get him eating.

[omni]

Oh, should mention, dont try feeding attempts more often than every 5 days, and no handling until it's eating regularly. Too often trying get the lil one to eat, may condition it actually to not eat due to the stress.

[Foxide]

Thank you for replying. :)

Yes, I have tried slitting the pinkie. Doesn't seem to make any difference. I am only trying to feed him once a week.

[Sweetseraph]

Sometimes hatchlings never eat, but hopefully this one did actually eat for the breeder before it was sold. Sometimes one that has eaten will stop eating when moved to a new home, just because it's stressful.

You need to get him eating soon, since he's already down 3 g. The first thing to try is the live pinkie. It doesn't mean he'll stay on live forever and pinkies and fuzzies are not going to be able to hurt him, so you'll have some time to try getting him over to frozen. He also may not be used to being taken out of his viv and placed in a separate tank for eating, so you should also try offering food in his viv instead. Place the pinkie on a little plate so the shavings don't stick to it. If it's f/t, make it really hot and offer the food just before you go to bed and then go away and leave him alone with it. You can offer food every 5 days or even 4 days while you're trying to get him to eat.

If feeding in the viv doesn't work, then make sure the container you move him into is very small, so small there's just enough room for him and his mouse. Again, make the mouse very hot and offer at night. Stick him in the container in his viv (not on the hot side) and leave him alone until morning.

If you can't get him eating, you might consider taking the breeder's offer and getting a different snake. Sometimes babies just don't make it, no matter what you do.

[Nanci]

I'd try live. I'd feed in a tiny container. I'd try every four days. Would it be possible to return him to the breeder, let the breeder get him going again, hopefully? You could get a second baby in exchange if you wanted- and then get Caddie back after he is feeding reliably. I guess if he doesn't take live, after a couple or even one try, it's time to throw in the towel and let the breeder try again, rather than letting him starve. Sometimes they just _don't_ eat- no one knows why. It doesn't mean you did anything wrong, or the breeder sold you a faulty snake intentionally. And they _have_ offered a reasonable solution. (You'll probably end up with more than one snake, eventually anyway!!)

[Nanci]

And it is not unusual for large, reputable breeders to start hatchlings on live pinks. Rich Z told me he feeds two live, then one FT. I've never had a problem getting a baby from Rich to eat FT. I believe Sean Niland, VMS, feeds live pinks. If you have tubs and tubs of newborn mice- it's just easier to go ahead and feed them. It doesn't hurt anything. It _might_, I would say probably does, make getting that first meal into the hatchling a lot easier.

[tspuckler]

Quick ideas:

1) House baby snakes in small containers - like the size of a shoebox or smaller.

2) Do not subject snake to bright lights.

3) Make sure the snake has hide areas.

4) Feed the baby corn in the evening - do not watch it eat. Put the food into the cage and leave it alone until the following morning.

5) Make sure your reptile is being maintained at the proper temperatures - with a temperature gradient.

6) Your snake could be going through a shed cycle, if this is the case, it will be less likely to eat.

[Foxide]

Okay, I tried the live pinkie last night. I waited until evening, put him in a smaller container than usual, didn't touch the pinkie at all, put the mouse in there with him and left them alone until morning. I woke up and checked on them, Caddie was cowering as far back as he could get and the mouse was just lying there trying to get up and crawl. Cad just refuses to eat.. What do I do next? Try again? Take him back to the breeder? :(

[Foxide]

Also, perhaps I was jumping the gun a bit taking it out on the breeder. I was just upset that after everything seeming so good and purchasing a snake from them I heard from multiple people that their animals tend not to eat. I'm sorry if I came off quick to point the finger at the breeder. :(

[dionythicus]

You need to contact the breeder and have them either refund your money or provide you with a snake that is eating f/t (or at least live). I know you want to keep this baby and make it work out, but not all babies are meant to thrive. Its one reason why snakes have so many babies, there will always be babies that don't make it. Its disappointing, but the reality is, you have a baby that may never eat. There are still many tricks to try, or you can opt for a new baby that will eat for you. I have babies that took their first meal after almost six weeks of refusing, so its possible yours may still eat, but at this point, I'm thinking it won't.

You have a difficult decision to make. If this baby dies, are you going to get another? If the answer is yes, then you should go ahead and contact the breeder now to get a healthy, eating hatchling. They may have ways to try to get Cad to eat (pinkie pump, although I doubt it) or they may humanely euthanise it, rather than let it starve. Cad isn't disposable, he's starving. What's fair to Cad?

[Feanturi]

to me it is weird that the former owner doesn't know what it's snake ate before he sold it.
it is therefore more likely that the breeder isn't very qualified or just starting. i would try a breeder like Kathy Love, who garanties her snakes to have eaten and shed before she sends them out. her webpage is also far more advanced with garantees and info. good luck.

[Drizzt80]

One thing to also consider is that I've sold, and purchased, hatchlings that have eaten several meals just fine and dandy and then go off food. Most, if not all, come back around and eat without too much hassle. But, I have personally been in the boat of purchasing a hatchling or two that have gone off food completely and taken more hard-line measures to get them to eat. It happens and is part of the hobby.

D80

[Nanci]

to me it is weird that the former owner doesn't know what it's snake ate before he sold it.
it is therefore more likely that the breeder isn't very qualified or just starting. i would try a breeder like Kathy Love, who garanties her snakes to have eaten and shed before she sends them out. her webpage is also far more advanced with garantees and info. good luck.

Most breeders, including Kathy Love, would have a hard time shipping to South Africa...

[Feanturi]

oops...that detail slipped my attetion.. ;-)

[Foxide]

Most breeders, including Kathy Love, would have a hard time shipping to South Africa...

Hahaha, this is so true.

Oh well, if all else fails it seems that Caddie's going back to the breeder. It's really heart breaking especially since he's my first snake but what can you do beyond trying? I guess it's just a risk you take when you choose to bring any animal into the family and I'd definitely rather take him back than let him starve to death here. I love him a lot, but I'm not selfish when it comes to his well being. I think I'll try once more, and that's it.

Thanks to everyone who replied, I really, really appreciate the help you gave me.

[CALIVIK]

The only way I could get my hatchling to eat was a head of a pinkie. I had to cut the head off & then she would eat it. It took several weeks of doing this before she finally ate a full f/t pinkie. I just cut the head off a frozen pinkie. Its much easier that way & thaw it out. Its really not that bad. I also feed mine in small paper lunch bags. Just make sure the top is sealed or in your case leave the pinkie head in w/ her over night.
So sorry you're having to go through this. I know how frustrating it is & how worried you must be. :(

[jayson rafter]

im sure we"ve all had are share of getting and producing non feeder's...but i have never put one down for not eating,i've had hatchlings go 3mo. w/o ever eating and all of a sudden it ate,grew and is one of my best breeders.

for "me" if i have a non feeder i attempt every 2 week's(with no bothering at all!!!) & most of the time after that they usually eat. also there's stuff out there to help stimulate appetite...dunno if you'ld have it there,but im sure you could order it(i've never tried it & dont know anyone who has...but it's worth a shot?)

hopefully your corn will come around,in the meanwhile i'd get at that breeder!! you should'nt have gotten a snake that wont eat & judging by the way you've explained his reaction to the live mouse...sound's like a non feeder right from the get-go.

good luck,

-jayson

[carnivorouszoo]

The only way I could get my hatchling to eat was a head of a pinkie. I had to cut the head off & then she would eat it. It took several weeks of doing this before she finally ate a full f/t pinkie. I just cut the head off a frozen pinkie. Its much easier that way & thaw it out. Its really not that bad. I also feed mine in small paper lunch bags. Just make sure the top is sealed or in your case leave the pinkie head in w/ her over night.
So sorry you're having to go through this. I know how frustrating it is & how worried you must be. :(

Reminds me of Jewel the prize of my um, what do you call a group of snakes living seperately but in their own vivs? "collection"? Well, anyway, my prize snake, Jewel an Amel mot het caramel stripe ate wonderfully for the breeder, came to me and even though I waited 8 days to feed had a regurge. Could not find a reason. Waited 10 days and fed just heads for almost two months because she turned away from whole pinks. Then bam she was chowing down whole ones, then peach fuzzies, now she is on fuzzies.

Then there is my clutch, I still have 2 hold outs. One is kinda thin, but the guy getting them knows they have not eaten for me yet and is willing to work with them with no guarantees on their health from me. I would have waited but this guy has been watching since the day the female was accidentally bred because I am so close to him.

I have 2 holdouts in the 4 I am keeping too. But they have not had food offered for a week and are doing an overnight with pinks in their bins tonight. Fingers crossed.

I hope the OP's snake decides to eat this next try. Good luck to any with snakes off feed or not eating yet.

[jayson rafter]

just thought of this now but thought i'd throw it to you...try scenting the pink's with a green anole (i have had success/not 100%) but it has worked for some.

-jayson

[carnivorouszoo]

Only problem with that is actually having one on hand t scent with. Not everyone does.

[CALIVIK]

Shoot I remember using tuna water! I would put the pinkie in it. Worked for me. You'll try anything to get them to eat!
Pray ya'lls little ones eat soon!

[Foxide]

Thanks for the advice. :)

Unfortunately no Anoles of any kind here, the closest thing I could get without much trouble is probably a Gecko. As for the tuna water, I've tried it a couple of times and no reaction at all.. Oh well. :(

[carnivorouszoo]

I got one to eat using chicken broth. :shrugs:

[chris68]

Thanks for the advice. :)

Unfortunately no Anoles of any kind here, the closest thing I could get without much trouble is probably a Gecko.

If you can, catch a real small gecko and let it crawl over the pinkie, or rub some shed gecko skin on it. Or just see if it will eat the gecko ;)

Like some others have said some babies just dont eat, or stop eating, and nothing you can do will change that.

[BNR34RB26DETT]

man, im having the exact same problem with my baby.
4 weeks old and has not eaten yet.
tried braining and chicken broth but no luck...
i might have to try live pinky...

[carnivorouszoo]

Hope you can find some. No where has any around me so I have to wait and keep trying f/t until my gerbils have their pups. It'll be longer before the mice have any pups I just got a new female and I only have the one female.

[Foxide]

Today was going to be the last attempt but unfortunately Caddie passed away this morning. I tried as much as I could but I think he just wasn't meant to make it. Thanks for everything guys, I appreciate it. :(

[BNR34RB26DETT]

im sorry to hear that....
i hope mine wont die like that..

[Foxide]

im sorry to hear that....
i hope mine wont die like that..
Don't let Caddie's death upset you. There's still time for your snake!

I hope your snake has a future full of yummy mice. :)

[BNR34RB26DETT]

how many days did caddie actually survive for?

[Foxide]

This has been an emotional week for me.
It was upsetting to put a live pinkie in with Caddie. When Caddie didn't eat the live pinkie I spent 4 days feeding it every 1.5 hours because I didn't want it to starve, it died the day before yesterday. And now I've lost Caddie. :(

[Foxide]

how many days did caddie actually survive for?

We got him at a month old and he would have been here for 6 weeks on Wednesday. I'm not entirely convinced that he was eating regularly when we got him, though. Especially since I've now found out that he was bred and possibly cared for by the "breeder's" 9 year old..

[carnivorouszoo]

Oh boy :( I would not allow a 9 year old breed anything! Not even for 4H which, thank goodness, does not do snakes. Normally I would not let a snake leave me that is not eating but I did trade some hatchlings still learning about food to a guy with lots of snake experience. That is the only time I would even think of letting a snake leave without a few good meals in them.

[Foxide]

I've been looking through some pictures I took when I'd just gotten him and it seems to me like he was already fragile and thin when I got him, especially around the neck area.

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af317/clairebear121/thin.jpghttp://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af317/clairebear121/thin2.jpg

I don't know if I'm just imagining things or not, but he seemed a lot smaller than some other babies I've seen.

I'm going to get another corn within the next week or so. I can't replace Caddie, but it seems I can't be happy without at least one snake in my life anymore.

[carnivorouszoo]

Those look like my hatchlings. Very thin in the neck area but widen at the body. Was he skinny like that all of this length?

[WingedSweetheart]

He does look thin in those pictures but I can't see the whole body so not sure. Corn snakes have skinny necks and they get wider as you go down the length of their body and then taper off again towards the tail. Some have thinner necks than others. So if your little guy was that thin all the way down then there was def wrong with him. Hope you can find another baby from a better breeder. It really does make me mad when children breed animals. They have no idea what they are doing.

[Foxide]

A little update on the breeder I got Caddie from, they are in the process of being shut down for breeding without a permit by Nature Conservation as permit laws for wild/exotic animals are strict here. Someone who is a hobby corn breeder and also happens to work for Nature Conservation has also confirmed that their snakes are generally unhealthy and non-feeding.

[Feanturi]

Most breeders, including Kathy Love, would have a hard time shipping to South Africa...

:awcrap: Missed that!

[Ivorzz5]

You could try tease feeding!
Heres how you do it
1. hold your snake 3 inches away from its head, loose enogh that it won't sufficate but tight enough that it can't squirm away.
2.Use stertile tweezers to "tease" the snake with your Mouse.
3. It should Latch on. :)

[bitsy]

You really need to start reading the whole thread Ivor - the poor little scrap has passed on now so we're past the feeding tip stage I'm afraid.

[Thulsa]

A little update on the breeder I got Caddie from, they are in the process of being shut down for breeding without a permit by Nature Conservation as permit laws for wild/exotic animals are strict here. Someone who is a hobby corn breeder and also happens to work for Nature Conservation has also confirmed that their snakes are generally unhealthy and non-feeding.

Like you I was "Burned" by a less than honest breeder. My outcome was happier though because after a whole lot of working with a reputable breeder here locally my Gray Band has eaten 3 times now and has had his first shed.

[carnivorouszoo]

I can't stand dishonest breeders of any animal. When I traded 4 of my hatchlings I was absolutely honest with their history. Especially the fact they were not eating or had only eaten once, depending on the hatchling. I've sold one but she is my best eater so the new owner will be quite happy if they are careful with her. I am so sorry for anyone who has had to deal with dishonest breeders.

[Nanci]

Like you I was "Burned" by a less than honest breeder. My outcome was happier though because after a whole lot of working with a reputable breeder here locally my Gray Band has eaten 3 times now and has had his first shed.

You know what- you keep ragging on that breeder, but you NEVER mention that you NEVER contacted him to tell him there was a problem!!!!! The person of which you speak is an incredibly ethical person. He was NEVER even given a chance to help you, offer suggestions, replace the snake, take the snake back and get it going again...He had NO WAY of knowing that the baby had stopped feeding! And don't tell me that it was his responsibility to contact you and check up on the baby- no one breeding hundreds of babies has the time to contact every new owner and make sure things are going fine...

Instead of stabbing this breeder in the back, maybe you ought to take your complaint to the Board of Inquiry and give him a chance to respond to your accusations. (No, you can't do it here).

[ZoologyGirl]

I'm sorry to hear about the death of your little one. Don't let that discourage you from owning corns though, especially if it was from a not-so-reputable breeder. Good luck in your future endeavors!

As far as the live pinky I probably would have just stuck the poor dear in the freezer, but it's over and done with now and I know you were just trying to help it. I don't think it had any chance though without it's mother.