Little Non-Feeder Amel

[Irish Eyes (Mrs.Z)]

I have a little non-feeder amel het for lava (I think). She was sent to me as a freebie with another order, after the seller asked me if I wanted to give it a try, so we knew what we were getting into.

Soooo.... after trying every single thing people have suggested, here, including a live day-old pinky (that did NOT sit well with me, btw, although it eventually went down just fine with the other snake it was eventually offered to), the pretty baby still refused to eat. I want to say "thank you" to the member who suggested I contact Connie Hurley to purchase one of her tube feeding kits! It arrived yesterday, and with luck, it may save this baby's life. We gave the baby her first feeding last night per instructions from Connie (no more than 1 ml), and, so far, at least, she's held it down. And we didn't kill her with our first attempt at tube feeding, either, which is very, very good :-).

So I have a question (or maybe 2 :-). I assume I continue a feeding schedule of once every 5 days. Should I continue to offer f/t babies "modified" with various methods to make them more appealing at feeding time, and then tube feed if the little one (I refuse to name her just yet) continues to refuse, or should I just go with tube feeding for awhile? If so, how long before I offer this little one pinkies?

Also, if I manage to tube feed this baby successfully, what are the chances that she'll survive the process and go on to eventually eat f/t?

I really like this tiny, tiny animal, and I want to help her live if at all possible.

Thanks!

[Nanci]

If it was me, I'd just get her beefed up into the 12-15 gram range, and then think about trying real food.

[Irish Eyes (Mrs.Z)]

Thanks, Nanci. Will do!

[sarae]

with diallo, i still offered f/t every 5 days, but tube-fed that same day if he refused the pink. I tube-fed for 5 months before he finally started eating on his own.

[Irish Eyes (Mrs.Z)]

It took him 5 months?! Whoa! I'm glad he made it :-).

[sarae]

yup. he was a stubborn little worm. ate once in the 7 months he was at the store. he was 8g when i finally brought him home.

Tonight he's 36g :D

[Sacred_Nightmares]

Tube feeding? I have not yet heard of this. How does it work? It sounds interesting.

[Irish Eyes (Mrs.Z)]

Pretty much like gavage feeding macaws (only easier!), or tube feeding any other creature. You have a tube, a syringe, some lubricant, and some food (in this case, powdered ferret food). Mix up the right amount at the right consistency, put the tube down the snake's throat into its stomach, and slowly inject the liquid food into the stomach of the snake. Then carefully remove the tube, do a bit of massage and carefully put the snake down and hope for the best!

That's the short story. The devil's in the details of methodology, handling, feeding, and cleanliness issues, which you'd want to pay good attention to!!!

They make kits out there just for this purpose. Mine cost $20. After carefully reading instructions and following them to the letter, it turned out to be easier to get my little lady fed than I had expected :-).

[MysticExotics]

What kind of ferret food are people using for this?
I am curious, because ever since Proctor & Gamble took over Natura, the company that makes Evo ferret formula, there is no ferret formula that I would feed to my ferrets.
So I'm curious to find out what brand has enough nutrients for tube feeding snakes.

[Irish Eyes (Mrs.Z)]

Oh boy. I think I have that bookmarked somewhere. There were 2 brands that were evaluated and found acceptable for use by hatchling corn snakes. I think Evo was one of them....

Let me see if I can find it. I'll pm you with the results :-).

[TandJ]

I will not force feed a nonfeeder.. I am sorry, but I refuse to add poor eatters to my gene pool.. Some people can and have in the past called me cruel for culling poor feeders, but they are part of the circle of life here.. I wish you well in this endeavour...

Regards.. Tim of T and J

[MysticExotics]

Oh boy. I think I have that bookmarked somewhere. There were 2 brands that were evaluated and found acceptable for use by hatchling corn snakes. I think Evo was one of them....

Let me see if I can find it. I'll pm you with the results :-).

I got your message thank you, but the link didn't go through. :(

Evo ferret formula used to be the only ferret formula that I would feed my weasels, but since the company was bought out by Procter & Gamble (who has ruined every pet food they've taken over...Iams for example) I stopped buying Evo. There's already visable changes to Evo kibble, & when asked about formula changes, they say they'll keep it grain free, but they side step the topic of ingredient changes.

Sorry for the off topic tangent...I'm not saying it wouldn't be enough nutrients for a hatchling, but I wouldn't feed any of the ferret formulas currently out there to ferrets.

[sarae]

My vet had recommended prescription A/D dog food for diallo's tube-fed diet. I mixed in a powdered multivitamin as well.

[sarae]

I will not force feed a nonfeeder.. I am sorry, but I refuse to add poor eatters to my gene pool.. Some people can and have in the past called me cruel for culling poor feeders, but they are part of the circle of life here.. I wish you well in this endeavour...

Regards.. Tim of T and J

That's certainly understandable from a breeding standpoint, but from what I've noticed, the majority of non-feeders are considered Pet-Only... never to be used as breeding stock.

If non-feeding could be passed on, I don't think it's right to breed more... but if one comes across an already-hatched non-feeder and has the time to spare to try and bring it around and make a good pet out of it, I see no harm. Sometimes those animals that nature decided shouldn't make it turn out to be great companions :D

[Irish Eyes (Mrs.Z)]

I will not force feed a nonfeeder.. I am sorry, but I refuse to add poor eatters to my gene pool.. Some people can and have in the past called me cruel for culling poor feeders, but they are part of the circle of life here.. I wish you well in this endeavour...

Regards.. Tim of T and J

That's cool. Since I don't breed, though, that's not a consideration in this case :-). Should she survive, and ever change hands, I'd inform the new owner of her previous non-feeder status and let them make the choice as to whether or not to include her in the gene pool. Chances are, though, that she'll not be changing hands. We're very attached to her. As a non-breeder owner of pet-only corns, I feel no responsibility to let my pets die of starvation if I can do anything to avoid that outcome.

[Sacred_Nightmares]

What an interesting method. I wonder if it puts as much stress on them as say, force feeding does? Sounds like it's pretty effective.

And I saw you talking about nutrients in food... and i was wondering if raw egg yolk would suffice? I'm not sure for corns, but lots of snakes eat eggs in nature, and the yolk has lots of fat and healthy nutrients. Just my little brain waves going off. I'm not experienced enough to know if it would work as a good substitute.

[Nanci]

The original study (http://tinyurl.com/29e2l46) compared Ultimate Ferret Diet, Carnivore Care and pinks. Both groups on tube-feedings gained more weight than the control group on pinks. This study was performed by a vet.

I have a thread on here called Woe Is Noah. It's pictures of me tubing Nutribac into Noah the BOA when she regurged. You can see how calm she is- it's like she could care less! It's got to be way less stressful than force-feeding. Much less prone to injury.

[Jessicat]

I feel no responsibility to let my pets die of starvation if I can do anything to avoid that outcome.

What about those who don't feel the necessity of watching an animal who might not ever eat starve to death, so they cull it shortly after it is determined a non feeder? Snakes are the kind of animals that over produce as a survival mechanism. Even if a number of snakes from a clutch die at least the genes will be carried on by the survives. As I wrote to you before, some are not meant to make it. It's actually designed into their birthing habits.

I think that attempting to keep an animal alive which isn't living a fulfilling life and will most likely have problems for its whole life (talk to Jen about a snake she got eating, only to have regurges and die on her) is unfair to the animal and to yourself. There are MANY healthy snakes out there that can survive perfectly on their own.

I personally would not attempt to force feed an animal because to me it's perpetuation an unnatural life. I don't think the only reason to not keep a sickly hatchiling alive is not to pass its unhealthy genes on. Obviously this animal has already caused you a lot of grief. I doubt it is really living a happy life either, but Corn Snake feelings are not for me to judge.

[Nanci]

Except some hatchlings are deemed non-feeders when they won't accept an unnatural food (mouse pinks) in the first few tries. Many breeders have too many hatchlings to mess around figuring out what the snake wants. Look at the non-feeder someone had last year- Tom E?? that wouldn't touch anything until he offered a day-old finch. The poor baby was like, I wondered when you were ever going to feed me! And it then went on to accept finch-scented mice and then unscented mice. I bet if you offered the "non-feeders" a hatchling anole, there wouldn't be many non-feeder cornsnakes that didn't have a physical defect causing them not to feed.

[wstphal]

Considering the ZILLIONS of hatchling brown anoles around the Homewood Suites, I am quite sure hatchling cornsnakes in the Daytona area feast and feast on anoles, and might well consider mouse pinks, well, kinda nasty. Wish I could have caught one of those darn things to bring home for scenting! Maybe next year. If a "nonfeeder" is really holding out for anoles, is it unhealthy? Or just doing what its genes SHOULD do? The whole nonfeeder issue is COMPLICATED in my eyes.

[Rdoyle]

what about this

http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Pinkie-Pumps