Force Feeding - NEVER AGAIN - Dead Snake

[Jenn_Tigercat]

OK at this moment I am very upset and annoyed with my vet. I am not sure if any of my snakes will go back to see him again. I took cailin to the vet after a long battle with her not eating, regurging then refusing food again. After discussing the possible issues that could cause this he wanted to try force feeding her. so I went and got a pinky mouse and he force fed her. Got her home and her mouth was bleeding. Called them back and was told that was normal cause there gums are very sensitive. Just checked up on her and she is dead. Needless to say I am very mad and upset. I just got off the phone with them and of course he was already gone for the day and won't be in until next tuesday.

Sadly I feel guilty though I know that it is in no way my fault. She was my baby and one of my favorites.

RIP Cailin
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=771&pictureid=6014

[VickyChaiTea]

Force feeding can be risky... though as a vet they should be as careful as possible.

Did you try feeding live? Sometimes it is an option if nothing else works.

[Bartholomew]

Wow, Im really sorry for your loss. She was a very beautiful snake.
RIP, Cailin..

[Jenn_Tigercat]

Did you try feeding live? Sometimes it is an option if nothing else works.

I tried live and was actually working with another member on here to try and figure out what was going on.

[starsevol]

That is heartbreaking....I am so sorry.
He killed her....

[Jenn_Tigercat]

Thanks for all your kind words


He killed her....

Basically that is how I feel at the moment

[Nanci]

I'm sorry Jenn. That isn't right. I force-fed an Eastern hoggy for over a year. There was never any bleeding...

[Jadie.Glitch]

I have force-fed about 9 snakes, some of them multiple times.. all of these were very weak and the force-feed was a last resort, however I must say NONE of them bled. A few didn't make it due to being so weak and unable to digest, however... but your story breaks my heart. You absolutely cannot be too rough with them, especially when they're already having trouble so I'm pretty miffed at your vet... It seems like he did something wrong.

Beautiful snake too, that's such a shame. I'm really sorry for your loss :(

[ceduke]

I'm so sorry for your loss. :(

[dionythicus]

I had a vet that killed a snake that was egg bound because of how rough they were. They never admitted they were wrong in how they handled it.

I'm very sorry you lost your beautiful baby. I hope you do let the vet know that what they did was wrong and they are responsible.

[wasuslitherin]

Jenn, I am as SOOO sorry! She is so beautiful!! I woulnd't use that vet anymore.

[gelshark]

Jenn, That Sux!
sorry to hear this
hopefully the wrong will be corrected

[Jenn_Tigercat]

hopefully the wrong will be corrected

The only way it could be corrected is if he could bring back my snake which I know he can't.

[MysticExotics]

I am so sorry for your loss. :(

[gelshark]

The only way it could be corrected is if he could bring back my snake which I know he can't.

thats true, hopefully he will do everything possible to correct the mistake as is actually possible.

[Drewby07]

Hopefully you at least didn't pay the bill. I'd guess they weren't experienced in juvie corns....and tore something during the force-feed. I prefer to tube-feed juvies if the need arise....

This just goes to show you that just because they are a vet they don't necessarily know what they are doing. Sorry for your loss.

[cobained]

I am sorry for your loss. One of my biggest pet peeves is people acting like they know what they're doing and what's going on when they don't, and then ignoring your concerns. Being a vet is an incredibly difficult job...they're expected to diagnose/treat a very diverse group of animals who can't speak and often hide illness until it's advanced, oftentimes with owners who can't spend ridiculous sums of money to test everything. So while your vet is completely in the wrong for attempting a procedure and not following through, unfortunately there are always risks. I have had an incredibly hard time finding a vet I'm comfortable with even for my cats/dogs, let alone my snakes, because I expect very good communication, knowledge, respect, and a willingness to admit not knowing or being wrong.

[Jessicat]

Oh no!! My thoughts go out to you. Cailin was a beautiful Ghost!!

Sounds like the vet was very misguided, but at least you did all you could and thought you were doing the right thing. Don't blame yourself. That is really saddening though.

RIP Cailin

[medusacoils]

I am so sorry to hear about this! This is heartbreaking. Cailin is such a beautiful snake.

Take it easy and know that we are here for you!

Wayne

[Jenn_Tigercat]

Thank you everyone for your kind words.

[mjdglobal]

Sorry to hear about your snake. One of my snakes died today, so I get on Cornsnakes.com and discover two other members had snakes die today. Today SUCKS. Once again, sorry to hear about your snake.

[wstphal]

Oh, Jenn, I am so sorry! Force feeding mammals never seemed like a good idea, so how could it be good for poor Cailin? ((Jenn)) RIP Cailin.

[xreinx]

you should sue. The person clearly wasent experenced with snakes, at least put the word out that the person is Killing Animals insted of helping. my sister is a vet tech, she says and quote

"a good vet won't make a cat scream in pain, or hide what he is doing behind closed doors, he will invite you in to see just what he's doing with your animal, Force with an animal is not needed in the profession, even if it is reluctant or aggressive."

[bitsy]

Have to say I agree with the above. Bleeding after force-feeding is not normal and they don't have "sensitive gums". What a crock. You can knock teeth out and graze, tear or injure the inside of the mouth or throat if you're rough, catch an instrument on them or don't use enough lubricant on the food item. They don't bleed spontaneously.

An admission that something went wrong and an immediate apology wouldn't have brought your babe back but at least it might indicate that the vet wouldn't do it (whatever it was) again. I'm so cross on your behalf.

[diamondlil]

Have to say I agree with the above. Bleeding after force-feeding is not normal and they don't have "sensitive gums". What a crock. You can knock teeth out and graze, tear or injure the inside of the mouth or throat if you're rough, catch an instrument on them or don't use enough lubricant on the food item. They don't bleed spontaneously.

An admission that something went wrong and an immediate apology wouldn't have brought your babe back but at least it might indicate that the vet wouldn't do it (whatever it was) again. I'm so cross on your behalf.
I couldn't agree more. I syringe fed Lil, then progressed to force-feeding until she finally started eating, not once did I get any bleeding or injury to her mouth, and I'm just an amateur who's force-fed and raised baby birds before having snakes to deal with.

[Tracee]

Well it's already been said many times, but no way should there have been any bleeding. And if they regularly advise worried owners that snakes bleeding at the mouth is normal, then there is a big problem here.

I'm so sorry and angry. She was aboslutely gorgeous.

[xreinx]

its not only that, but we spend money on our "hobbys" and I dont know about you, but its taken me A Long time to get my collection This big, these Snakes This old, at this size and Healthy at the same time!

that was a young snake.. hopes for the future .. gone, because one idiot thinks hes smarter then someone else and does something that the Origional Snake Owners Know Not to do! all that time you spent taking care of her, worrying over her, all for naught.. why? it shouldent have happened. if he is indeed a vet, your snake should not be dead. warning signs and flags are waving here. you need to ask to see his Vet Id License. maybe report him to the Regonal head of vets in your area. if he Killed yours.. Just think of what hes doing To other peoples pets. I know Id be upset if someone kept quiet and my animal died under the same vets care, because they didnt say anything until much later..

[wstphal]

There are state licensing boards for veterinarians, just like other people with professional licenses (physicians, nurses, pharmacists, attorneys). I don't know how much trouble you can create for a vet, but complaining to a physician licensing board creates immense havoc for the doctor that they will deal with for years. Here's the link for filing a complaint against a vet in Colorado if you want to go that route:

http://www.dora.state.co.us/veterinarians/complaints.htm

[xreinx]

yea, I know, its a harsh route, but "He" says its "normal" for a snakes gums to bleed after a force feeding.. how many times has he done Just that, and had a snakes mouth bleed.. and he calls it Normal?
you gadda think... how many Injured snakes Lived Threw that? or Not lived threw it... how many people lost their pets this same way?

im just saying.. "if" he calls it normal. then he must send a lot of snakes home with bleeding mouths, and if thats true.. Yikes... is all I can say.

he should be trying to figure out why shes not eating, Not force feeding your snake for you. you at least would have been careful with her.

im sorry for your loss.. and angry, it could have been provented. he should at least refund your money, and if he dosent, well.. file a complant.
if hes killing animals, he should stop and go back to school so he could learn to treat animals the right way.

[CULEBRA85]

I am so sorry for ur loss...i work at at vet and we have force fed many animals including reptiles and i have never witnessed bleeding...there is something very wrong here....ur vet shoulda suggested tube feeding instead of wat he/she did. Again i am so sorry u lost ur baby!!

[loki1980]

oh my god im so sorry, if that was my baby yogi i would of been beating on thats vets door!!! i dont know what to say besides im so so sorry :(

[Irish Eyes (Mrs.Z)]

I am SO sorry for your loss! Poor little one. Sounds as if the vet was way too rough, and, if I know most vets (and here at Collie Capers, with all our animals, I DO know most of them in this town :-), they rarely take responsibility for their mistakes, let alone admit to making them! Maybe they don't have malpractice insurance like docs do....

I currently have a little non-feeder amel who is being tube fed. So far, so good. *knocks wood* I tried assist and force feeding her, and she wasn't going for it. No way was I going to truly FORCE something down her throat. Those littles are too delicate for ham-fisted handling.

May your baby rest in peace.

[Yarmuck]

Sorry to hear about your loss. We've had to force feed one of our Chondros before, and it was one of the most stressful experiences of my life. It kept her alive though, and she eventually started eating on her own.

The weird thing is, when you resort to force feeding something as small as your pictured snake, you typically only start with a pinky head or something of the like. Just to get enough in there to slow down the "wasting away."

Really sorry for your loss.

[wstphal]

I am SO sorry for your loss! Poor little one. Sounds as if the vet was way too rough, and, if I know most vets (and here at Collie Capers, with all our animals, I DO know most of them in this town :-), they rarely take responsibility for their mistakes, let alone admit to making them! Maybe they don't have malpractice insurance like docs do....

IIRC, they do have malpractice insurance, however, you can't sue for pain and suffering, only for the "economic value" of the animal as measured by an archaic legal set of rules based on food animals (making pet animals virtually worthless and purchase price, again, IIRC, not very relevant either). Because of the unlikelihood of a large jury award, attorneys don't want to take vet med-mal plaintiffs because it won't be profitable for the attorney. So it's all rather difficult to do any large scale financial damage to the vet. Maybe someone who knows more than I do can correct any inadvertent errors I made in this post...

[marshaelaine]

I am so sorry for your loss, I am force feeding my anery lavender because she will not eat. I cut, then mash a pinkie, put it in one of my diabetic syringes and put into her mouth, then push the pinkie into her throat. I do about 1/2 a syringe at a time and rub her throat to make sure she gets it down before I do the rest.
I am hoping my baby will eat soon, but has not for 1 and 1/2 months.
In all this time I have never had "Shea" bleed when feeding her.
I am sorry again for your loss,
Marsha

[vetusvates]

Sorry for your loss...she was a very pretty snake.

I have only used force-feeding as a very last resort. And do not advocate it for anyone nervous or unsure...or...incapable.
I fed a western pygmy rattler over the summer of 1980, and I never bled, nor did she. She delivered 5 healthy mini-hots that August.
I'd done it successfully before then, and since, with other snakes....and never had a bleeding snake.

[MotleyCrue]

First, I am very sorry to hear about your loss.

Second
IIRC, they do have malpractice insurance, however, you can't sue for pain and suffering, only for the "economic value" of the animal as measured by an archaic legal set of rules based on food animals (making pet animals virtually worthless and purchase price, again, IIRC, not very relevant either). Because of the unlikelihood of a large jury award, attorneys don't want to take vet med-mal plaintiffs because it won't be profitable for the attorney. So it's all rather difficult to do any large scale financial damage to the vet. Maybe someone who knows more than I do can correct any inadvertent errors I made in this post...
You are correct. With little to no possible gain for an attorney it would be very hard to find one to take your case. However, some may be willing if you put up cost and fee money up front. Risky.

You can however file a complaint yourself and cause them some headache. If you go to your local Courthouse you should be able to get the Civil Complaint forms you need. While you can't sue for pain and suffering you can ask for punitive damage awards.
This is the real fun part. Once you file the complaint you can send it to the local papers and try to get them to publish it. That would seriously hurt the reputation of the Vet and also probably force them to the negotiating table. I would also call the local news station.

[omni]

Sorry for your loss :_( Poor little snakie.
<- gets image in mind of vet packing fuzzy into snake's mouth, using a probe to push down forcibly. Definately should not be any bleeding, the only proper way to force feed is tube feeding using something like a pinkie pump. This vet is incompetent with snakes and complaint should be filed even if to just cause the vet some difficulty.
You should have been invited to watch the procedure. Anytime I've been to the vet for any animal, other than major surgery like a canine c-section, I've helped hold the animal or been there in the room to observe and see the work.

I hope I never have to go through what you have, and feel very sad for your loss.

[LeoEyes]

Im so sorry to hear about this It really sucks that you went to the vet for help and they did this.

I understand where your coming from, my first leopard gecko got a really bad impacted sperm plug that I went to the vet to have removed. They were so rough with him that later that night after I'd gone to bed he started bleeding and bled out all over the cage. It was even worse that this was one of my first pet reptiles and had for 10 years or so.

[1997snake]

im sorry for your loss, i know losing something close is hard.
I used to catch wild banded water snakes, force fed them for a few weeks because finding snakes was so rare i couldnt let him go. he never bled and he never died