4th regurge

[Dreamsnake]

The tale of my vanishing stripe's digestive problem continues. It comes down to the hard question: should I put her down? I've never killed a snake before, let alone one of my own pets, I'd have to take her to the vet and let them put her down. She is nearly two and has never weighed 30g. I've gone through regurge and recovery 3 times already, so I don't need anyone quoting the regurge protocol. I can do a power point presentation on regurgitation. Has anyone had to put a snake down for this?

[Nanci]

Do you feel like she's suffering?

[Dreamsnake]

She's curled up in her warm hide right now. I can't tell if she's suffering, that's my problem. Our first snake died as a hatchling, Nim is only the second snake we've owned. The thrid corn is younger then her by six months and eating hoppers. I use the same set up for both: 10 gal tank, screen top, uth, thermometer, and dimmer. The local breeder raised snow is thriving, the petco anery can't keep down fuzzies. I even spaced her meals 7 days and waited for her to poo before feeding her again just to be sure she digested the first fuzzie. How long can a snake survive on pinks alone? She is so skinny, I feel like I'm starving her.

[Karoni]

I don't have any wisdom to offer, but I'm sorry you're going through this.

[Chip]

I would be very hesitant to use that snake for breeding, regardless of her genes. That said, I would continue feeding small meals and see if she can recover. I'm unaware of the protocol for euthanizing that vets use, so tough to say if I would go that route or put her down myself if it came to that. Best wishes, and sorry you're going through this.

[ShenziSixaxis]

It doesn't sound like she's doing good if she's 2 and never been 30grams. However, is she underweight? Is she lethargic? Does she willingly accept food? If yes to all, I say keep trying, offer very small meals coated in nutribac, just keep trying. If no to any, put her down.

The way I see it.

Have you had her tested for parasites?

[Dreamsnake]

We don't have a reptile vet in town. I got Nim when she was 8 inches long from petco. If I knew about this forum before getting the snakes, we never would've bought them in first place.

She always eats. I've given her 8 fuzzies in her life, she's regurged 4. I was hesitant to keep giving her Nutribac, so instead I cut the tails off the snow's hoppers for the past two months to give her some calcium. I've even suffered a bit of ridicule for keeping her on pinks for so long. Has anyone heard of a snake surviving 4 regurges?

[Chip]

Oh yeah. I'm not sure what the most I've ever dealt with was, but certainly over 4. Have you tried a peach fuzzy or 5-6 day old pink? Not much bigger than a 3 day, but would have a little more nutrition to them...

[ShenziSixaxis]

...You should try rats! Seriously! My Apotos got a feeding with bad fuzzies, and her gut got screwed up, but she's doing very good on rats.

[hackler22s]

I had the same problem with a store bought Amel. Had 3 regures in a row when I bumped her up to fuzzies. I than bought some NutriBac and started to cut little slits in the back of the fuzzies. Worked like a charm. After the first time I did that she has never regurged(knock on wood) and has since then gained 15g. IMHO I HIGHLY recommend NutriBac. I feel it saved my snake. Goodluck tho!

[medusacoils]

Failure to thrive is what comes to mind. It's something that happens in many species of animals and it's regardless of what you do. I have a cousin who was a "failure to thrive" baby. It's a lot of work to turn it around.

Not sure what is going to happen post 4 regurges though. I would really go back to basics and work from very tiny on up. Stick to pinkie heads dipped in nutribac for a few feedings and increase very very slowly. Check your temps and make sure things are very clean. I would also reduce the size of the enclosure to limit movement. I think this will be your only chance.

Good luck

Wayne

[Dreamsnake]

I have an exam later today, but I was going to check on her and clean the tank. I could put her in Zar's feeding keeper on paper towels for the duration of the fast. I can feed Zar in a mixing bowl or something. What I mainly needed was some hope she'd survive. i haven't ordered any special feeders for her, because I wasn't sure she'd make it and I don't have another snake to feed rat pinks too. Titus is an adult ball python and Zar is on hoppers.

Don't ever buy a snake from petco, people. I only did because I was under the impression the state prohibited reptile shipments to civilians, which was another lie told to me by petco employees.

Wish me luck on my exam, I'm having a hard time figuring out molecules and enzymes.

[medusacoils]

I have an exam later today, but I was going to check on her and clean the tank. I could put her in Zar's feeding keeper on paper towels for the duration of the fast. I can feed Zar in a mixing bowl or something. What I mainly needed was some hope she'd survive. i haven't ordered any special feeders for her, because I wasn't sure she'd make it and I don't have another snake to feed rat pinks too. Titus is an adult ball python and Zar is on hoppers.

Don't ever buy a snake from petco, people. I only did because I was under the impression the state prohibited reptile shipments to civilians, which was another lie told to me by petco employees.

Wish me luck on my exam, I'm having a hard time figuring out molecules and enzymes.

Good luck on the exam!

Yeah, getting that snake in a nice tight enclosure will keep movement down and may help in the burning of needed calories. Keep em good and warm. Also get some pinks and start feeding just the heads after the fasting period. This WILL, hopefully, help in the rebuilding of the stomach flora. Which is very important.

I'm really pulling for you and this little one!

Wayne

[Susan]

As long as she's still willing to eat and will keep down smaller prey items, I would continue to work with her. I have an '07 female snow aztec that took forever to get past large pinky mice. She had several regurges the first year (I would have to dig up her old records to see how many), but continued to eat like a champ, gaining just small amounts at a time. I didn't rush her, feeding her what I knew she would handle and what might put a gram of weight on her in the process. She finally started putting on more weight and I would gradually increase the size of her meals until she became so aggressive at feeding time last summer that I started treating her like any other snake her size. She has about tripled her weight since this time last year and she tipped the scale this afternoon at 136 grams before munching on a medium adult mouse. I am also having to do the same thing with my dilute anery stripe female. She's an '08 and weighed 54 grams today before eating her small jumper mouse.

[Dreamsnake]

I cleaned out Zar's feeding tank and set Nim up with a the bare necessities. It looks like a little snake cell for the next two weeks of restricted movement. She isn't at all lethargic. She even jumped in my hand the way she always does.

Zar is digesting his hopper just fine. It is nice to have one without these issues.

[Outcast]

Unfortunately, I can speak from experience with my store only, Petco does not seem to get any quality corn snakes. The three we had were so badly kinked that they really should have been put down, instead of being sold to the wholesaler who sold them to us. I counted a minimum of 3 kinks per snake, and on one, the poor baby had 5 kinks going up its spine...
We also had a girl come in to the store two weeks ago, she had bought her baby corn in August, the poor things stomach looked like it ruptured, there was a dark brown/yellow stain on his/her belly scales. This was approx. 1 hour after death for the little baby...

I had only seen this happen to one other corn snake, a butter stripe that my buddy in Alamogordo had gotten from a local pet store, it died in a month of him owning it.

I really hope that your baby does well, and I would also not suggest breeding her, if/when she makes it to adulthood. Being a Petco snake, you cannot be sure she doesn't have any other genetic issues that you would be passing to the next generation.

[Dreamsnake]

I wont breed Nim. I doubt she'll ever get big enough to do the task anyway. Nim is a pet only for the remainder of her life.

I'll be ordering a strawberry pair and a lavender female later for breeding purposes with the snow as a back up. My snow came from pet store too, but he was home grown in Albuquerque. I still thought we couldn't order snakes to our residence without paying an import tariff.

[VickyChaiTea]

I say if she still eats and she's not in pain, then you might not want to put her down. So long as you think she can live a good life, or at least a painless one.

I think in all honesty you should take her to a vet. She might not just be not thriving... she may have an illness that can be cured, or at least dealt with. Another plus would be having the advice of a reptile vet on the matter. I think they would be able to give you better advice than us.

Even if you don't have a reptile vet in your city, you could drive to the closest one for at least one check up. See what the vet says, and if things don't look good you could have them euthanize her there.

[Dreamsnake]

She's survived the fast and has kept down a pinkie coated with reptile vitamin powder. She has her normal activity and interest in watching me. She sits on next to my bed, spending most of the time out of hiding. I'll be putting her on rat pinks when she's ready for that big of a meal. Nim is such a spunky snake, I just can't put her down unless there is no hope left.

Thank you for your help and concern for this tiny creature.

[garweft]

Even if you don't have a good reptile vet you should see about getting a fecal done on her. There are quite a few reasons snakes have multiple regurgitations, a high parasite load and cryptosporidium are 2 things that can cause them and can be found in a fecal.

Until you know take precautions to keep any possible exposure from your other snake.

[Caryl]

I'm playing catch-up after being unable to be online for a while. How is Nim doing now?

[Dreamsnake]

I never put the snakes together, but I have used cream cheese containers for water dishes and they interchanged between the tanks. How do you preserve a fecal sample?

[snakewispera snr]

You could try isotonic powerade drinks..... The athlete rehydration drinks.
We use these 75% STRENGTH MIXED WITH TAP WATER.. to power up our snakes...
Bathe for 20 mins or so everyday....
Sometimes the electrolyte balance helps them out, a lot......

[visceralrepulsion]

i agree pretty much with what everyone is saying. if it seems shes in no or very little pain, isnt struggling to move, or resisting movement or nippy or anything, then i wouldnt give up on her. especially now that shes holding down vitamin covered pinks then i would keep with that routine you mentioned. if worse comes to worse i do know a way to humanely euthenize small animals though taught to me by a vet tech. you can always contact me if the need ever comes up. but it sounds like shes starting to thrive and im so happy for you and her! keep up the effort and good work. hope, help, and a kind owner go along way. best of luck with your little fighter, nim.

but i do have to say i got my snow hatchling from petco, and shes doing extremely well, putting on weight, shedding perfectly, and eats with more gusto than my adult male. shes thriving just fine for a hatchling, especially for a petstore snake. so dont lose hope in all petstore snakes people! they need a loving home too!

[visceralrepulsion]

oh and i was told to store a fecal sample just in a ziploc baggie, well sealed of course. just scoop and place in the bag and bring it to the vet. probably best to use the thicker freezer type bags, just incase of tearing, ya know, haha.

[WingedSweetheart]

I have two pet store bought snakes. The corn will be a year old this coming may and is just now on small peach fuzzies. She is very tiny. The king is nice sized but I've had regure problems with him. From his size he should be on hoppers but I could only feed him peach fuzzies for a long time. We have finally moved up to regular fuzzies without a regurge. What I'm getting at is, as long as your snake doesn't seem to be suffering then I wouldn't give up on her. Keep trying. If you notice that she gets bad looking and doesn't want to eat or move around much then I would take that a cue to put her down.

[Naagas]

You could try isotonic powerade drinks..... The athlete rehydration drinks.
We use these 75% STRENGTH MIXED WITH TAP WATER.. to power up our snakes...
Bathe for 20 mins or so everyday....
Sometimes the electrolyte balance helps them out, a lot......

I've never heard of that. Snakes and PowerAid? I will have to try that out!

[Dreamsnake]

We've been away dog sitting for a family member, I can get back to check on them twice a day or so. They all seem to be doing just fine, both corns got fed yesterday. I think she can go back to her real tank soon, she's tearing up the little box. I'll stop by and check on them again after class.

The snow came from a pet store as well, the difference was that he/she was hatched from a local breeder and sold at the store instead of coming from a corporate snake distributor.