Snake not eating; lump in abdomen; no money for medical care

[DiscipleRayne]

I've had this snake for about 2-3 years. He was probably about a 1 old when I got him. This is a wide estimate. Over the past 2 months, he has been slowly beginning to refuse food and now he wont eat at all.

Since the day we got him, he would jump on anything you put in his feeding box the moment you put it in there. Never had any problems with health issues or anything like that, and he always ate just fine. Now, he wont even stop and smell food or acknowledge that it's there. It doesn't matter if I cut it open. He isn't even interested if I dangle it in his face with tongs. He is no longer interested in food.

About 2 weeks ago, I noticed a lump in his abdomen. We took this image about a week ago.

http://raynes.me/hfiles/lump.jpg

I'm posting a link to the location of the image because the image so large, it goes way out of the forum's margins.

The lump doesn't seem to have grown or gotten smaller, but this all seemed to come to a head when the lump appeared. We don't own any other snakes nor come in contact with them or people who own them, so I'm not sure whether or not it could be crypto.

The biggest problem in this whole situation is that I can't even take him to a reptile vet to have him checked out. We simply do not have the funds to go to one, given their costs and the location of the nearest ones (we live in the middle of nowhere).

I'm looking for advice because I do not know what to do. I want to do whatever the precisely best thing is within my limitations. I do not want to be a bad owner. I understand that I shouldn't have this snake if I can't afford his medical care, and I would be absolutely willing to give him up so that he can get proper medical care if that is what is necessary. I just want to do the right thing.

[Nanci]

Here is the picture. Is it soft or hard? Is it at the stomach, or higher, at the heart? Are you positive your snake is a male?

[medusacoils]

Are you noticing any other symptoms? Maybe clicking when breathing, mucous in the nose or mouth, did the snake regurge at all or have loose stool, breathing problems or wheezing.

Plus the questions Nanci asked.

Wayne

[DiscipleRayne]

Like I said in my original post, we've never had feeding problems of any sort. No regurgitations or anything. The lump seems to be harder than the rest of the body, but not rock hard. I suppose I need to brush up on my snake anatomy, but it's not far from the tail so I assume stomach. No clue what the sex is. Finally, no other symptoms that I can discern.

[Shiari]

Can you get us a picture of the entire snake so that we can see where the lump is in relation to the rest of the body?

[medusacoils]

The stomach is a little more than half way down the body. Some people think it's up higher but it's not.

When is the last time he pooped? He may be impacted.

Wayne

[DiscipleRayne]

I'll get that picture asap. It's in a hide right now and I'll be going to sleep soon, so tomorrow for sure. In any case I'm fairly certain that it's his stomach. He has a bowel movement either not long before, our right after the lump appeared. He may have had another small one after that, but it might have just been a bit I missed during clean up.

[SnakeAround]

Makes me think of my king snake which developed a very aggressive tumor in her bowel, about an inch below her stomach. She started refusing sometimes, ended up not eating at all, while feeling just a bit weaker then normal and being way more calm then usual. The vet had to operate on her to find out what it was, we decided to not let her get back from anesthetics because the vet might have been able to save her but it would get back and she would only suffer more.

Sorry to have to tell this, but I feel you should be prepared it might be bad :(

[DiscipleRayne]

That is worrisome. I've already been expecting a bad outcome out of this. The worst thing is the prospect of just letting him suffer because I don't have any money to have him checked out or euthanized.

In any case, here is that picture. It's a bit dark, but my flash is way too bright that close and I don't have any other sources of light handy. You should be able to see the location of it relative to the top of his body. The lump is not that visible from this angle, but it's right beside his head.

http://raynes.me/hfiles/lump2.jpg (Once again, forgot to lower the resolution. Sorry. I'd edit it down, but I don't have much time).

[dan803]

Kathy Love's book talks about crypto and says the stomach swells noticeably in the advanced stages. A parasite like that would cause regurges and abnormal stool though. And I'm not sure if that spot is the stomach.

It would be wise to keep him far away from other animals if you have any, and wash your hands really good after handling just to be on the safe side. I'm sure it isn't crypto but you can never be too careful.

[Nanci]

It's hard to tell, but it looks further down than the stomach. Wait and see what happens? maybe gentle swimming?

[4riscorn]

We had one just like that. We took her to the vet because when we first got her, she refused to eat...for a lonnnnggg time. The vet said it was probably an old egg stuck since she was bred the year before we got her and once she ate it would probably dislodge. Well, she finally ate later that week and ate for months afterwards and deficated but the lump remained. Hers was close to the tail. Then the lump got really hard and she ate like crazy then didn't pass anything for a month then stopped eating and was barely moving around and you could tell she was in pain because she would jerk every time you touched her. She wasn't young, but not old. But my husband works with CO2 at work so he made a little chamber and put her down before it made her even more miserable. I also had another snake that developed a lump closer to the head overnight and went from eating like a giant then stopped and died within a couple of months. Luckily we took him out of the snake room as soon as the lump appeared as well as another snake we got at the same time. She hung on for quite a while before dwindling away to nothing but bones so he put her down as well. I am glad we removed them from the snake room. Haven't had any problems since then so far thank God!
Have you tried putting her/him in the tub with warm water and let her/him swim around for a while in case it is food that has to be dislodged? That sometimes works.

[SnakeAround]

I gave her a 1 ml syringe with olive oil in her throath every day for a week as a first try to help dislodge a blockage. That was advised by my vet, before we decided the only thing left to do was to open her up.

[medusacoils]

Kathy Love's book talks about crypto and says the stomach swells noticeably in the advanced stages. A parasite like that would cause regurges and abnormal stool though. And I'm not sure if that spot is the stomach.

It would be wise to keep him far away from other animals if you have any, and wash your hands really good after handling just to be on the safe side. I'm sure it isn't crypto but you can never be too careful.

Cryptosporidium was something that came to my mind but I didn't want to be an alarmest without having more facts. The only thing I can say about that is, that with Crypto, the lump wouldn't necessarily be hard. It would be distended and very soft almost like air in the belly.

Only other thing I can think of is that when my girl had a URI she used to swallow air and hold it in her stomach. Or at least that is what the vet told me. I did have a Gastric Lavage done on her and it came back normal.

I really think you need to have her stool tested for a parasite. That could be her problem and the tests aren't that expensive. My vet charges me $15 to get one done. I would also suggest that you beg, steel or borrow the $$ to get her checked.

Wayne

[bitsy]

If it seems to be a harder mass, then a tumour is another possibility. I've lost one to cancer. You'd definitely need a vet to diagnose that.

[DiscipleRayne]

Sorry for not responding for a while. I stopped getting reply emails and figured that the thread was abandoned, so I didn't bother checking the forum.

I took him to the vet last Friday and the doctor took an xray. The lump is firm, and he pointed out that it was a little low for crypto, but it's still at the top of his list. That or a tumor. He said that before we get into diagnostics (biopsies and tubes down the throat) we should try to get a stool sample. Alas, he sent me home with a prescription for some antibiotic that I'm supposed to administer by putting a small syringe down his throat.

I'm getting that prescription filled today and fetching some mice. I guess I'll try to get him to eat fuzzies, because I imagine those will be easier for him. But, given that he isn't even remotely interested in food, I'm not very optimistic.

I'm going to try what the doctor said, I guess, but I'm not sure I have what it takes to put a syringe down a snakes throat to administer antibiotics. Furthermore, I'm pretty certain that he isn't going to eat. I've never seen him so disgusted at food than the last time I tried to feed him.

One good thing is that I explained to the doctor that I probably wouldn't have the money for another visit until early next month, and he said that if I got a stool sample, he'd consider it a part of the first visit and wouldn't charge me for another office visit. I doubt that I'll be able to get a stool sample (you don't poo if you don't eat) though. I certainly don't have money for diagnostic tests and surgeries and such, so I kind of wish he would have just put him out of his misery. I think it's obvious to everyone that it isn't going to get better. I don't like keeping him around just so he can suffer.

</endfrustratedrant>

[Nanci]

Tell the vet that, then.

But tubing the snake is pretty easy. Aim for the corner of the mouth. You aren't going to hit the airway if you start from there. Then just feed the tube in gently. It goes better if it's wet.

[DiscipleRayne]

I'm going to try the antibiotics and try to feed him every couple of days. If something doesn't give by the 15th or 20th or so, I guess I'm going to call the vet and figure out where we should go from there. The poor thing is emaciated and starving to death. The agonizing part is how long that snakes take to starve to death. He hasn't ate in like two months. I can't even imagine.

[Nanci]

Well, a healthy adult snake can easily go months without eating, so the fact that he is becoming emaciated is a good sign that he has an illness of some sort. I'm sorry. You could also talk to the vet about what if it _is_ crypto? There isn't a cure, and while some snakes can carry it and not be affected, that would not appear to be the case with yours, if that is the problem. Likewise, if he has a tumor, chances are it is not treatable except maybe surgically, and you probably can't afford that, and it's probably not a high success rate. It's not a bad thing to take positive action and euthanize a suffering animal if there is nothing you can do to fix it.

[wilomn]

You'd be surprised at the amount of feces just hanging out in the colon too. Try to gently but firmly massage out anything that might be in there.

Just run your hand down the snake, after the lump, with your thumb on her scoots and gentle finger pressure from above as you move your hand down the snakes body. Do this over a damp papertowel and take whatever comes out to the vet.

[SnakeAround]

Maybe the vet agrees on monthly payments on the bill, should it be an option to operate on your snake. But to me it sounds like a tumor to be honest. Little chance of successful treatment indeed.

If I administer medication with a syringe, I usually gently pry open the mouth with a spoon or wooden spatula (provided by the vet) from the front, let it sit in the corners of the mouth, put in the syringe behind/above the spoon/spatula, with the air tube opening (glottis) residing in front/underneath so it's safe from the fluid. I push a bit of the fluid into the throat, lubricating it, then gently pus in the syringe further into the throath. If it's not going smoothly I twist the syringe clock and counter clockwise for about a quarter of the circumference while pushing. The throath usually widens then. I'll try to draw it.

[Naagas]

I'm so sorry this is happening to your poor snake.

I agree with you that it may just be easier and kinder on the snake to euthanize at this point. :-(

Hugs and condolences.

Ps... It is pretty easy to give oral antibiotics. Just make sure you get the tube far enough down the throat.

[bitsy]

You'd be surprised at the amount of feces just hanging out in the colon too. Try to gently but firmly massage out anything that might be in there.
Be very careful doing this if a tumour is potentially involved. A vet (not my usual one I hasten to add) tried this with mine and something to do with the tumour ruptured. Extra bleeding to add to the problem is not what your snake needs.

Sadly, if it is a tumour and it's already that advanced, then there's probably nothing surgically that can be done. My vet tried for mine, but by the time it was detectable as a lump, it had already spread laterally along the body and was a lot bigger than they thought when they started operating. I decided to let the snake go without coming out of anaesthesia, as they advised that it was inoperable.

I'm afraid you may be looking at euthanasia, especially if the snake is now starting to show physical effects. Two months without food shouldn't have that kind of impact on a healthy Corn, but it still could takes weeks or even months longer before the poor thing passes without assistance.

Basically, you're telling us that the vet doesn't have any concrete plans to do anything yet, and even if he did, you couldn't afford them. If things looked more hopeful, I'd be urging you to find alternative ways to pay the vet. However, given the circumstances you describe, my gut feeling is that euthanasia is the way to go here.

[wilomn]

I was not clear enough. I meant to gently apply pressure after the lump. Don't try to push the lump itself out, just any juices that may be in the intestine between the lump and the vent. You don't need much for a fecal.

Good luck but Bitsy may be right.

[carnivorouszoo]

You could use a blender or food processor to liquify a mouse and use a syringe to force feed the same way you give the antibiotics. This would help get the fecal sample I would think.

[DiscipleRayne]

I got the meds today and tried to give it to him. I couldn't get him to open his jaws enough for me to get it in. I know I could have used something to pry them open, but I couldn't do it. It brought me to tears. The vet and everybody else knows that the chances of it doing anything are kind of nil, and putting him through all of this every single day for the next two weeks seems to be pointless to me. I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and see if we can just go ahead and euthanize him rather than put him through all of this. He isn't going to come back from this.

[Nanci]

I'm so sorry. Do what you feel is best. And then when the time is right, a new snake will mend your heart.

[Caryl]

I'm so sorry for what you and your snake are going through. If you do decide to try again with the medication, you could do it with a syringe. I'm sure the vet can give you one, but you can also get them at pharamacies. If you lubricate it with KY jelly or something similar (don't use petroleum products) it's relatively easy to get the it into the corner of the snake's mouth and push the plunger.

You're in my thoughts and prayers. Sometimes euthanasia is the best choice, but it's never an easy one.

[bitsy]

Forcing a Corn's mouth open really isn't that traumatic for them, but I understand your problem with doing it, given that he's already going through so much and it's not expected to help.

This is a terrible decision for any pet owner to be faced with, but sometimes you need to be strong for the animal's sake. Only you truly know your Corn and whatever you do, it will be in his best interests. Sending you my support, whatever you decide.

[crotalis40741]

My heart truly goes out to you, I am having issues in my own collection at the moment but after it is hopefully taken care of and my collection is shown healthy I would be more than happy to help you with a new snake free of charge. Just keep in touch with me if you are interested later on.
Time does heal heart break slowly, but there are a lot of good people here to help so you are not alone.
Take care
bob

[Susan]

I'm sorry your poor snake is having a rough time. It sure sounds as if it's a tumor. It also sounds as if he's suffering now and you've made the right decision in choosing euthanasia. You've had several offers of a new snake when you're ready, and I will add my name to the list. I have an adult male normal that really needs a new home. His name is Gregg and is one of the many babies I've bred and raised here. If you want him, he's yours for part of the shipping costs.

http://www.wwecornsnake.com/images/stories/Gregg%20Oct%20%2710%20-%20close%20up%20-%203.jpg

[Nanci]

Aw- who could resist that face? He'd be so happy to be an only snake!