Pro-Bio=NutriBAC?

[toxiclight]

I have a quick question. We ordered some NutriBAC last week from a company because one of our girls had regurged (we've been following protocol, and she's doing quite well now), but we hadn't had any NutriBAC on hand, and wanted to be sure to have some in future for just-in-case.

What we got was not NutriBAC but apparently the company's own probiotic blend: Pro-Bio (http://www.reptileuv.com/reptile-uv-probiotic-for-reptiles.php). The information reads similar but not quite the same as NutriBAC.

Does anyone have any experience with Pro-Bio or know anything about it? I have already contacted the company asking them, but I was hoping for an independent opinion.

[CentricMalteser]

usually when they regurge is more down to stress which could be related to, too many open spaces, or too bigger tank/viv, handled to early, fed whilst about to shed etc

when i have had previously a hatchling and adult regurge, the hatchling was because it was due to shed, and the adult because the warm side wasnt warm enuf (heat mat stopped working)

i never gave them any supplements at all, and they are both thriving and being bred with a good friend of mine

[toxiclight]

We are pretty sure that her regurge was caused by going into shed. She's a snow, so it's sometimes hard to tell...but her eyes were clearly clouded when we found the regurge.

I was more asking if if pro-bio and NutriBAC were essentially the same thing.

[CentricMalteser]

yeh snow corns are hard to tell, though the eyes do actually on some go milky purple colour,

since you identified the cause of this then you dont need to worry about supplements for it,

just wait a good full week once the shedding is completely before feeding again,

jus make sure fresh clean water is available, and you should find that she be fine

[CentricMalteser]

sorry misread the question, apologies

from what i have gathered pro-bio is a blend of enzymes and also vitamin b complex and encourages good bacteria to grow

the pro-bio is used from when vitamin b is being depleted by altering their diet by feeding them an animal (most commonly fish) that contains an enzyme called thiaminase which breaks down vitamin b and makes it unuseable to the snake.

Advanced vitamin B deprivation results in tremors, convulsions, and death, so when early stages of this depletion is found, then vets usually introduce Pro-bio that has the vitamin b supplement.

where as the nutriBAC is just to help good bacteria to grow
think of nutribac as milk for example - calms ur stomach down, promotes good bacteria

and then think of pro-bio which is milk to help calm ur stomach down, but then needing a vitamin c tablet on top because of this deficency

(apologise if it's a bad comparison)


I was more asking if if pro-bio and NutriBAC were essentially the same thing.

[toxiclight]

Thank you :) And it was a good comparison, IMO. I understood clearly what you were saying, and I thank you for the response.

And the snow is actually doing quite well, it's been nearly a month since her regurge and no signs of additional problems. We just thought it might be a good idea to have supplements on hand for 'just in case' situations, since we didn't with her regurge.

[CentricMalteser]

your welcome, and im glad she is doing really well, when she gets to her max age you will see the true beauty of a snow corn, as a garden centre has one that is 10 yrs old and just under 6ft long, and her coat just shimmers beautifully in the light, so u both lucky to have each other,

and glad there has been no other problems whatsoever, and to be honest i would only use supplements as last resorts under a vets guidance, but everything is ok, so need not worry :P

[SnakeAround]

I would not accept getting anything else then what you ordered. If it's not working, what then? I'd reread the information that was given about the article in the shop to be sure there are no tiny words telling you you'll get a self made copy of NutriBac and ask them nicely to change it for NutriBac if you can't find anything about ordering anything else then NutriBac.

[SnakeAround]

I think NutriBac actually containc bacteria that are present in the guts of your snake.

Read this:

Contains naturally occurring microorganisms, tested and proven. This product is a water-soluble powder suitable for sprinkling on food or mixing in drinking water.

Beneficial bacteria, known as probiotics, have long been known to aid the intestinal tract of humans. Many reptile-related diseases can be traced to the health of the reptile's intestinal tract, too. A good, well-balanced probiotic offers a safe approach for aiding the healthy gut flora of reptiles.

link: http://www.reptileuv.com/nutribac-df-probiotic-for-reptiles.php

When a snake regurgitates, too much of the bacteria are gone and NutriBac fills up the missing ones. There is no vitamin B in it. Maybe you are confused with Biotin? That's for a healthy skin and digestion of fat.

[SnakeAround]

(Maybe i need to donate so i can edit)

I read the info about pro-bio now and understand why vitamin b was mentioned. Centric was right; the difference is added vitamin b and enzymes. I would not give extra vitamin b or enzymes if not necessary, pro-biotic bacteria are what the snake needs. Vitamin B is not water soluable either so too much of it won't be excreted.

[toxiclight]

I've already contacted them, as it's not what I ordered. I'm waiting to hear back from them, as I was not terribly happy that this was substituted for what I ordered. I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask and get some opinions on it while I waited for the return process.

[SnakeAround]

That's true!

[Naagas]

It looks like Pro-Bio is NutriBac with added stuff (enzymes and Vitamin B complex).
Corn snakes don't NEED the vitamin B complex, but I'm not sure that it hurts. B vitamins are water-soluble.
If I were you, I would feel comfortable giving Pro-Bio in place of NutriBac.

Really what you want for regurges is probiotics. There are many different brands out there- I bought some BeneBac from the local pet store and that is what I am using ATM.

[SnakeAround]

Indeef i was wrong, vitamins a and k are not soluable in water

[Naagas]

I only know because I get B vitamin shots! Lol!
So I get WAY above what normal people do. It is totally safe in humans to jack up B vitamins. I am guessing it is also safe in snakes. Hey, it might even give your snake more energy! Haha!

[CentricMalteser]

extra vitamin B would not be safe in snakes

in humans too much sugar = diabetes
too less sugar = diabetes

in humans too much vitamin c = nausea and diarrohea
in humans too less vitamin c = scurvy

vitamin b supplements only given to snakes if their diet has been altered to an animal that contains an enzyme thimanese which breaks down vitamin b and therefore causes nervous disruption like tremours in the snake

this are only given in rare case scenarios and by a vet and not by supplements unless instructed by vet


I only know because I get B vitamin shots! Lol!
So I get WAY above what normal people do. It is totally safe in humans to jack up B vitamins. I am guessing it is also safe in snakes. Hey, it might even give your snake more energy! Haha!

[SnakeAround]

too much vitamin b:

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA50582/can-too-much-vitamin-B-cause-problems.html

[SquamishSerpents]

when my cockatiel was sick, i ground up some Acidophallus in the blender into a fine powder, and sprinkled it on his food. that's what the Avian Vet reccommended, i wonder if perhaps that would work for regurging snakes too?

[CentricMalteser]

each animal is different, as you wouldn't give gaviscon to your cockatiel to calm the stomach down to prevent sickness, and you wuldn't give them paracetamol if they had a temperature

so it really isnt worth thinking about

when my cockatiel was sick, i ground up some Acidophallus in the blender into a fine powder, and sprinkled it on his food. that's what the Avian Vet reccommended, i wonder if perhaps that would work for regurging snakes too?

[SnakeAround]

All drugs prescribed by my vet for my snakes are made for humans and used for the same purpose as in human most of the time. So it's not really weird to compare. There are no drugs registered for reptiles, at least not over here.

[SquamishSerpents]

yes, exactly. why do you think snakes sometimes are injected with Baytril, I think i've maybe even heard of Fluconazole injections, both human drugs.

it was just a thought, anyways. i've never used Nutribac, so i don't know a lot about it, other than it's for regurges. regurges are not something i've had to deal with on a regular basis (so far)

[Naagas]

extra vitamin B would not be safe in snakes

in humans too much sugar = diabetes
too less sugar = diabetes

in humans too much vitamin c = nausea and diarrohea
in humans too less vitamin c = scurvy

vitamin b supplements only given to snakes if their diet has been altered to an animal that contains an enzyme thimanese which breaks down vitamin b and therefore causes nervous disruption like tremours in the snake

this are only given in rare case scenarios and by a vet and not by supplements unless instructed by vet

I understand that a HUGE amount of vitamin B would be bad.
The amount of vitamin B a human needs to cause side effects is HUGE.

I don't think that the amount in this product is going to do anything to the snake, especially since it is a reptile product.

I know why vitamin B supplements are prescribed to snakes, but this is an over-the-counter probiotic that contains vitamin B in a supplement amount.

(The link you included said that while extreme amounts of vitamin B can be harmful, taking a vitamin B complex plus a multivitamin with vitamin B plus an antioxidant with vitamin B would only give you 1/10 of what you need to reach a toxic level.)

[MysticExotics]

I understand that a HUGE amount of vitamin B would be bad.
The amount of vitamin B a human needs to cause side effects is HUGE.

I don't think that the amount in this product is going to do anything to the snake, especially since it is a reptile product.

I know why vitamin B supplements are prescribed to snakes, but this is an over-the-counter probiotic that contains vitamin B in a supplement amount.

(The link you included said that while extreme amounts of vitamin B can be harmful, taking a vitamin B complex plus a multivitamin with vitamin B plus an antioxidant with vitamin B would only give you 1/10 of what you need to reach a toxic level.)
I agree with you.

[CentricMalteser]

in humans, yes large amounts are needed

however, snakes a lot smaller than humans, and do not have the same complexity as a human

and yes vit B is a reptile product, but giving excess to a snake especially if it has a normal level already regardless of regurge can be harmful

and i am illustrating the point that is only given to snakes that have a deficit in vit B because of they eating animals that have the thimanese enzyme which destroys vit b inside a snake

I understand that a HUGE amount of vitamin B would be bad.
The amount of vitamin B a human needs to cause side effects is HUGE.

I don't think that the amount in this product is going to do anything to the snake, especially since it is a reptile product.

I know why vitamin B supplements are prescribed to snakes, but this is an over-the-counter probiotic that contains vitamin B in a supplement amount.

(The link you included said that while extreme amounts of vitamin B can be harmful, taking a vitamin B complex plus a multivitamin with vitamin B plus an antioxidant with vitamin B would only give you 1/10 of what you need to reach a toxic level.)

[Naagas]

in humans, yes large amounts are needed

however, snakes a lot smaller than humans, and do not have the same complexity as a human

and yes vit B is a reptile product, but giving excess to a snake especially if it has a normal level already regardless of regurge can be harmful

and i am illustrating the point that is only given to snakes that have a deficit in vit B because of they eating animals that have the thimanese enzyme which destroys vit b inside a snake

I understand what you are saying, however I don't want the OP to think that their snake is in any danger of a vitamin B overdose if she uses this probiotic. The amount of vitamin B in this product will not harm her corn snakes. She is not using it long-term, and her snakes will be fine.