Pet store advice about feeding hatchlings...

Spent some time on the phone today with the local PetCo's "reptile expert". The hatchling I bought is not eating, so I called to try to get a detailed history and some info...

He told me that corns find their food with heat only and not at all with smell. He said to make sure the pink is at least 101 degrees before I offer it. That seems way wrong to me - and I know our other corn has only ever tagged us when we had scent on our hands. Never just when we had hot hands fiddling with him.

He also said that if he doesn't eat soon, I should force his mouth open with a credit card type piece of plastic and stick the pink in and hold it until he swallows it. This sounds ... I don't know. Risky? Dangerous? Wrong?

And he has no idea when this guy ate if at all, or if he has shed. He said that they had had them for about two weeks before I got them. So, obviously this is so incredibly un-ideal and a sale will never prompt me to buy from a crappy effing pet store again.

Anyway, I attempted a pink Thursday night and he just ignored it. I have read a bunch on difficulty feeding hatchlings and plan to try feeding him in a small paper lunch bag on Sunday. I guess I should leave this in his viv overnight, so if he wiggles out he is contained but he can't get any aspen on the pink this way.

So, any input on the PetCo guy's ideas? Any other advice?

Thanks!

I am probably not going to be of much help for your little one (except that it all just sounds terribly wrong) as I am just getting into this myself, but I can say something to the general Petco idea. Petco's 'experts' are trained by a computer program and by reading so much material and taking so many quiz's they become 'experts'. This information is typically basic and not (obviously) entirely correct. Its kind of like taking your car to a place that does oil changes and asking them to do an engine swap and tune. They know more about a car than the average person, but you wouldn't trust them to do more than an oil change (if even that).

There are good an bads everywhere. Petco is a chain, but the people working there aren't. There are actually people who know what they are talking about that work at them, but it is fewer than there should be. If you think it is worth your time, once you get the confirmed correct information I would put in an complaint (that store manager or district manager). Certainly don't want to possibly risk someone's job, but also don't want incorrect information being spread and killing people's animals.

Good luck with you hatchling!

Well Petco man is partly right. Temperature can be a major factor. Superheating a pinkie before offering it really can work and it's definitely worth a try.

However, smell is most definitely a factor when trying to get a "problem child" to eat. Some of the first things to try are scenting the pinkie with different things - I use the juice from a tin of tuna (not brine, as I don't know if their systems can handle salt) and others have had success with things like chicken broth. Sometimes making the smell either different or stronger, seems to encourage them.

Another trick is to wash the pinkie to take the smell away completely - something like Ivory soap in the US I believe?

Another slightly more gory method is to "brain" the pinkie before offering it. Doing it whilst still frozen makes it slightly less ghastly.

Leaving it in a paper bag woth the pinkie overnight is always a good one to try. Sometimes the absolute dark and quiet makes them feel safer about eating.

For me, force-feeding as recommended by Petco Man is a very last resort if you seriously think the hatchling will die without it. In my exerience, it's a very stressful process for the snake and in the couple of seasons that I tried it, none of my force-feeders ever ate of their own accord.

I believe there's a sticky at the top of the Health Issues/Feeding Problems section, with a comprehensive list of tricks to try with non-feeders, here:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28342

Hey now, I am getting my Petco "expert" certification today... all in 5 hours of training... It is unfortunate that Petco as a company does not hire more people who actually know reptiles. I have already gotten on a couple of the managers nerves because I have flat out told them that they had no idea what they were talking about when it came to our reptiles, and that our housing of said reptiles is horrible.

Basically what the guy was telling you is from Petco's training, which is supposedly looked over by a veterinarian. I would suggest complaining to corporate that their care sheets are antiquated and that they totally need to revamp their training programs.

On Topic...
How are you thawing out the pink? I run mine under hot water until they are thawed and quite warm. I have noticed that my pinkies tend to cool down quite a bit by the time I get into the snake room.... Also, if you have a lizard in the house, you could rub the pinkie on it and try feeding that way.
Another thing, your snake may only want live pinkies right now. I have a kingsnake that preferred live for the longest time, and now have him on f/t. But unfortunately my recent escapee, who was just caught as it started warming up, she was out all winter, has switched to live... It is a strange game, trying to play with snakes preferences.

I thawed the pink in my hand and under warm water until it wasn't cold anymore, because I had heard that using hot water could actually cook them and make it unappetizing for the snake. I will definitely heat it more thoroughly next time.

Once I get this guy stabilized and feeding I will write PetCo and forward them a Kathy Love care sheet or something I compile from here.

Thanks for all the great ideas and the link! Think good hungry thoughts for my little guy on Sunday!

i would only stick to luke warm, as to oppose superheated, as that could burn the inside of the snake digetsive system,

i would never certainly force feed mine unless it was the absolutle last resort, and what I mean by absolute last resort is if i have tried

braining, leaving snakey alone with food in a small dark place, like a tub with a towel over it
and live food
and if after leaving it 5 days in between each try, snakey started losing any weight

force feeding creates a hell of a lot of stress for them and can often put them of future feeds as the smell can be assosciated with stress

bitsy said:

Well Petco man is partly right. Temperature can be a major factor. Superheating a pinkie before offering it really can work and it's definitely worth a try.

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I think that petco guy is mixing up other snakes with corns. Corns don't have heat pits and therefore do not hunt by sensing heat (. They go mainly by smell. The whole thing about making sure the mouse is hot has nothing to do with them being attracted to the heat like say a viper would. Making the mouse hot just makes it seem more like its fresh or alive to the snake. Real baby mice feel hot to the touch and your snake is gonna notice if it gets a hold of a mouth full of cold dead flesh.

So when we are talking about how hot the pink should be, I should heat him to a temp that is hot to my hand but not hot enough to be uncomfortable for me, and that would be safe? Maybe with hot tap water?

I warm my mice in a bowl of hot tap water. I get the tap as hot as possible and fill a bowl. Then I put the mice in. A pinkie actually only takes a few seconds to a minute. I used to have pet mice and so I get the body to feel like my mice felt. So very warm to the touch.

yes exactly,

thats what i do, use a cup of hot water but not so its uncomfortable, deforst my pinky in it,

and by the time it is ready (usually few minutes, i squezze every part of body make sure its thawed and soft), i give a quick paper towel dry and then feed snakey

and although corns do NOT have heat pits,

they still can sense some heat by tasting or air particles

that is how they can find their warm part of their tank, and also a warm pinky does "taste" as if it's still alive/just died

jessicalb said:

So when we are talking about how hot the pink should be, I should heat him to a temp that is hot to my hand but not hot enough to be uncomfortable for me, and that would be safe? Maybe with hot tap water?

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So Mal is in the bag with the heated pink in his viv. He was super freaked about being picked up and put in a bag. While I had him in the bag I weighed him (the scale was already set to zero with the bag on it). He is 6.3 grams. That seems not frighteningly small but pretty little. I also got a rough measurement of about 13 inches when he was pacing his tank the other night.

Wish me luck that I find a fat and happy snake in the paper bag in the morning!

Oh, and it's killing me to wait. I think Ark needs more handling.

I had one start at 6 grams and within two months he was at 16 grams. No worries.

He ate the pinkie! I am so incredibly thrilled!!!! YAY!!!!

Thanks, Smallet, it's good to hear these little fellows can make good progress!

RESULT!!!! So pleased for you - I know what a triumph it feels, when you finally get a reluctant feeder to eat. Well done!

Thanks Bitsy! I really am over the moon!

so happy for you

what method did you use? as this will be helpful to future members

I waited a full 72 hours after the last feeding attempt, and then put Mal in a paper bag with a hot pinkie. I rolled the top down and left it in his viv overnight. This morning the pinkie was gone! When I let him out of the bag, I just unrolled it and tipped it so he could climb out on his own. He's such a little spaz I want to avoid freaking him out into a regurge if at all possible.

well done!!!! and good idea too

and if you are going to feed him outside his tank (which I do with Bruge), then just get a small tub, and do the same thing, but after an hour come back to him and do the same thing let him go into his home

but really overjoyed for you!!!

Yeah, normally we feed outside the tank, but with the paper bag thing, I was afraid he would sneak out overnight. Hopefully over time he will eat more willingly and I can just put him in a tub to eat and then place him back in his viv to digest. Ark ate like that from day one.

I feel so lucky that Ark was so easy. If Mal had been my first I would be a wreck!