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Regurge! :-puke01:

creamsicle83
08-05-2011, 09:42 AM
My snake won't hold down a meal, she is a 6 month old creamsicle... I've been breeding snakes for about 19-20 years... I have never had this problem, with a juvie! i have tried everything!!! I have fed her reds-regurge- I have tried pinkies-regurge- i have upped the temperature by 2 degrees, doesn't help. I have fed her at night-regurge-. ive left the light off, and uth on-regurge-. ive put a towel over her tank for 2 days-regurge!
I'm a reptile vet, and have never heard of none of these things not working! She eats, she'll be fine for the rest of that day. I'll wake up in the morning, look in her cage, and there will be a pinky, with no head, and the legs will be stuck to its sides, and it smells awefull!!!!!!! I don't touch her after she eats, because that'll usually cause it! Nope, ive been trying for about a month and a half, wasted about 7 or 8 pinkies! Is she sick?!?!?!?!
Any and all comments will be appreciated! :blowhead:

ScottyK
08-05-2011, 09:56 AM
Have you tried a probiotic?

Have you tried a very small meal like a pinkie head by itself?

How long are you waiting between feeding attempts?

creamsicle83
08-05-2011, 10:02 AM
i have not tried a probiotic.. i have tried a pinky head... ive even tried reds. im waiting about 5 days between feeding attempts...

ScottyK
08-05-2011, 10:35 AM
I would wait 10 to 14 days before attempting to feed again.

Check out this FAQ for some more information, and keep us posted...

Scott


FAQ from Kathy Love on Regurgitation Treatment

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT - once a snake has regurged, especially twice or more, it is more likely to keep on regurging until it dies, unless something is changed about its care and feeding. It is very important NOT to let this continue. PLEASE FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS BELOW VERY CAREFULLY. This is from my FAQ on regurges:

I suspect your problem is probably not bad mice, but about handling too soon, feeding too soon or too large of a meal, a stomach "bug", or improper temps. If you make these mistakes once, or even twice, it is not usually a problem if you FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY. But remember, each time it regurges, the stomach acids are depleted, and the whole electrolyte balance is thrown off more and more each time, and it makes it MORE likely that it will continue to throw up until it dies. (those consequences are just my opinions - I do not know if science backs up my conclusions, but my experience certainly does!) That is why it is so important to NOT ALLOW another regurge.

The next month or two is crucial. DO NOT feed it for AT LEAST 8 days since the last regurge. NOT ANYTHING AT ALL! Then get a newborn frozen pinky and cut it in half (or cut off just the head) If she eats it, leave her alone for a whole week. (no handling). Repeat the partial pinkie feeding the following week. Then feed a whole newborn pinkie a week after that, if there has been no regurge. Leave alone for a whole week. If she regurges, wait a week and repeat 1/2 pinkie. If she keeps it down, wait a week and repeat whole pinkie. If she holds down a couple of meals, DO NOT rush back into larger meals and more handling. Treat this seriously. Go very slowly. After 3 successful meals, go to a newborn pink every 5 days. Go back to normal feedings only after 6 successful meals. Always wait to handle until after 3 or 4 days, but only AFTER 6 successful meals. No handling until then (causes stress, need to keep stress down). And NEVER feed again right after a regurge - ALWAYS wait AT LEAST 7 or 8 days, maybe even up to 10 days, and then only feed something that was about 1/2 the size (or less) of what she regurged..

Also, be sure that temps are not too warm or cool. Try to give an area of low to mid 80s on one side and 70s on the other. Too hot or cold will cause regurges.

Grapefruit seed extract can sometimes help if the snake has some sort of "stomach bug" (any microbial problem) as it is a natural remedy that is good against many kinds of pathogens, but not as strong as an antibiotic prescribed by a doctor. This product has been used in agriculture for many years and seems to be very safe, as long as you dilute it with enough water that the acidity does not burn the tissues. A vet has told me he feels that it may somewhat alter the pH of the animal and thus change the way medicines are absorbed. So if you use this product and then take the snake to a vet, mention the treatment so it can be taken into account if the vet decides to change the prescription because of it. It is best to mix it in a glass and taste it to make sure it is not so bitter that the snake refuses to drink it. I have used it on myself and so has my husband. I find it works better on stomach problems than for other symptoms (such as respiratory - I didn't have any luck treating colds or other respiratory problems).You can buy it at a local health food store or online. Please refer to the following website for more background info:
http://www.nutriteam.com/index2.html

I have also had success with a probiotic called Nutri Bac, a fine powder containing seven different microflora that should be inhabiting the gut of reptiles, but may be absent due to stress, disease, antibiotic treatments, etc. Using the powder as a supplement will sometimes allow the reptile to get back the natural balance of microbes in its digestive tract, and then its own immune system can take over. See my website for more details, or go here:
http://www.cornutopia.com/Corn%20Ut...information.htm

The number of days and amounts of food, etc, suggested above are not set in stone. Other people may have success with slightly different formulas, but this is what I found works for me and many of my customers. If this protocol does not work when carefully followed, it is likely that the snake has some severe problems. Your only hope is a QUALIFIED herp vet, who may or may not be able to save your pet.

Please follow my care sheet for the first month or so when starting with new acquisitions (posted on my website for the first month's care of new corns).. The first month is crucial in getting the baby established. It is worth a little extra "coddling" for the first month in order to have a trouble free pet for the next 10 or 15 years or more.

Good luck!
Kathy Love

CONTACT INFO:

CORNUTOPIA / Kathy Love
Captive-Bred Cornsnakes

WEB: http://www.CornUtopia.com
TEL: (239) 728 2390
Backup tel. # 239-691-4414 (Cell)
EMAIL: kathy@CornUtopia.com

Nanci
08-05-2011, 10:45 AM
Did you breed the snake yourself, or did she come from someone else?

Has she ever been able to feed?

How much does she weigh?

How long have you had her?

This is what you need to do. This is an extremely serious situation- the odds of survival at this point are not good.

Cease all handling except for what is required to feed. She needs to conserve calories.

Observe STRICT isolation from all your other snakes. I would feed her on a different day, or if you can't do that, last.

Obtain Nutribac Probiotic. Kathy Love has it on her website, but it's also widely available on-line. I would tube about 1ml into her stomach every other day for ten days. After ten days, feed a pink head, with a coating of Nutribac. (All meals will be coated with NB from now on). If she keeps that down- another pink head in five days. If she keeps that down, 1/3 of a pink. Progress slowly, 1/3, 1/3, 1/2, 1/2, 2 x 1/3, 2 x 1/3, 3 x 1/3, etc. If she tolerates advancement of prey size, I'd keep cutting her prey into thirds or halves, all the way through fuzzies. And keep up the Nutribac. Once you are feeding whole prey, slit the back and both sides with 5-6 shallow cuts through the skin, every meal, up till she is on adults.

You could consider tube feeding ferret diet- but realistically, if she can't keep a pink down after following the regurge protocol- it is probably just prolonging a miserable life for her with no prospect of recovery.

creamsicle83
08-05-2011, 11:14 AM
thank you, scotty!

Nanci,

i did not breed the snake myself... ive had her about a 2 months... my breeding season only produced one fertile egg... and it was deformed... so, out of pity, i rescued this snake from a local pet store... they fed her about 2 days before i got her... and when i got home, i made sure she had everything she needed... and the next morning... there was a regurge... unfortunately... i waited about 5 or 6 days and fed a red... regurge... ive tried almost everything... if been force feeding 4mls of petiatric electrolyte that i got at walgreens, every other day... the pet store said she was feeding about 1 to 2 times a month... to keep it small... i immediately bought the snake, took it home... and then came the regurges... i do not know how much she weighs...

Lavender
08-26-2011, 02:05 PM
Did she ever get back to normal?

nightmaredisco
08-29-2011, 01:04 AM
Well, I thought 2 1/2 days was enough. I doubt it was nerves because he seemed very calm, but I could easily be wrong. He didn't throw up much, just the back feet of the pinky I gave him on Tuesday. Last I checked, my temps on the hot side were around 85 F and the cool side was about 73 F. I will check them again tomorrow. I use a digital thermometer with probe. I'm pretty sure I just handled him too much and now I feel awful. Poor baby. I will be following Kathy Love's advice down the the last word. :(

nightmaredisco
08-29-2011, 01:05 AM
I meant Friday, not Tuesday

kathylove
08-29-2011, 01:54 AM
Excellent advice from Nanci, as well as other posters. Once there have been so many regurges, the prognosis is usually grim. Because of that, I would immediately go to the Nutri Bac every 2 or 3 days (mix with water and tube feed) and a liquid diet after a few NB doses. After about 2 or 3 weeks of NB and a a small amount of liquid every 4 days (ground up ferret food is best), then I would go for the pink head, and so on. I usually start with 1cc of liquid, and then go to 2 cc after a couple of feedings, for a hatchling. Use slightly more for a bigger snake. Better to underfeed than overfeed, since the snake has probably lost most of its ability to digest anything by now.

A vet friend of mine who breeds snakes suspects that in many cases, the repeated regurges are just feeding an overgrowth of yeast in the digestive tract instead of much digestion going on. The probiotic will hopefully out compete the unwanted microbes and slowly lead the snake back to healthy digestion.