regurgitating/skinny foster

[waldo]

Its been a long time since I was here last but now I need some help. I took in a young corn, she is around 16" and quite skinny. She was last offered food on the 17th and today she found with a uneaten pinky and a regurg in her cage.

I know there is a regurg protocol, can anyone walk me through it? I have smaller then normal pinkies for her and pro-biotic powder.

[kathylove]

It is very similar to the "sticky" posted on the subject. Please note that the instructions are for a hatchling corn. You can increase amounts slightly for a larger, older corn.

Not sure which probiotic you have, but you can try using it with the same instructions I give for Nutri Bac. I don't really use the grapefruit seed extract as much anymore since I started using NB.

Good luck!

Subject: regurge treatment

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT - once a snake has regurged, especially twice or more, it is more likely to keep on regurging until it dies, unless something is changed about its care and feeding. It is very important NOT to let this continue. PLEASE FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS BELOW VERY CAREFULLY. This is from my FAQ on regurges:

I suspect your problem is probably not bad mice, but about handling too soon, feeding too soon or too large of a meal, a stomach "bug", or improper temps. If you make these mistakes once, or even twice, it is not usually a problem if you FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY. But remember, each time it regurges, the stomach acids are depleted, and the whole electrolyte balance is thrown off more and more each time, and it makes it MORE likely that it will continue to throw up until it dies. (those consequences are just my opinions - I do not know if science backs up my conclusions, but my experience certainly does!) That is why it is so important to NOT ALLOW another regurge.

The next month or two is crucial. DO NOT feed it for AT LEAST 8 days since the last regurge. NOT ANYTHING AT ALL! Then get a newborn frozen pinky and cut it in half (or cut off just the head) If she eats it, leave her alone for a whole week. (no handling). Repeat the partial pinkie feeding the following week. Then feed a whole newborn pinkie a week after that, if there has been no regurge. Leave alone for a whole week. If she regurges, wait a week and repeat 1/2 pinkie. If she keeps it down, wait a week and repeat whole pinkie. If she holds down a couple of meals, DO NOT rush back into larger meals and more handling. Treat this seriously. Go very slowly. After 3 successful meals, go to a newborn pink every 5 days. Go back to normal feedings only after 6 successful meals. Always wait to handle until after 3 or 4 days, but only AFTER 6 successful meals. No handling until then (causes stress, need to keep stress down). And NEVER feed again right after a regurge - ALWAYS wait AT LEAST 7 or 8 days, maybe even up to 10 days, and then only feed something that was about 1/2 the size (or less) of what she regurged..

Also, be sure that temps are not too warm or cool. Try to give an area of low to mid 80s on one side and 70s on the other. Too hot or cold will cause regurges.

Grapefruit seed extract can sometimes help if the snake has some sort of "stomach bug" (any microbial problem) as it is a natural remedy that is good against many kinds of pathogens, but not as strong as an antibiotic prescribed by a doctor. This product has been used in agriculture for many years and seems to be very safe, as long as you dilute it with enough water that the acidity does not burn the tissues. A vet has told me he feels that it may somewhat alter the pH of the animal and thus change the way medicines are absorbed. So if you use this product and then take the snake to a vet, mention the treatment so it can be taken into account if the vet decides to change the prescription because of it. It is best to mix it in a glass and taste it to make sure it is not so bitter that the snake refuses to drink it. I have used it on myself and so has my husband. I find it works better on stomach problems than for other symptoms (such as respiratory - I didn't have any luck treating colds or other respiratory problems).You can buy it at a local health food store or online. Please refer to the following website for more background info:
http://www.nutriteam.com/index2.html

I have also had success with a probiotic called Nutri Bac, a fine powder containing seven different microflora that should be inhabiting the gut of reptiles, but may be absent due to stress, disease, antibiotic treatments, etc. Using the powder as a supplement will sometimes allow the reptile to get back the natural balance of microbes in its digestive tract, and then its own immune system can take over. See my website for more details.

USE OF NUTRI BAC AND TUBE FEEDING IN REGURGING SNAKES

If your snake has regurged, especially more than once, it might be better to tube the Nutri Bac instead of just rolling some on the pink. A straight shot of NB in water a few times before feeding again may help assure a well coated stomach for the next meal.

Mix the powdered NB in 1 – 2 cc water for one baby snake. Draw it up in a syringe with feeding tip, eyedropper, or whatever you will use. Then sit down and put the snake’s tail between your knees. Then hold the snake’s head and neck with one hand, and use a fingernail on the other hand to open his mouth. I hold the syringe (pipette/eyedropper, etc) in my teeth until his mouth is open. But if you have a helper, you might not have to do that. But it is important for the head to be up and tail down (to use gravity to let the water run downhill). Work the tip into his throat, rotating if needed to get it in. It doesn’t have to go far. Squeeze the NB water slowly into his throat. Do not let up the pressure until you withdraw it, or you will suck the water back out. Hold the snake upright for a half minute to a minute so that the liquid is in his stomach. Rinse the snake off. Repeat every 3 days for a total of 3 times. After that, try a very small meal rolled in NB and see how it goes.

If the snake regurges again, try mixing egg yolk with NB instead of water. Give it every 3 days for a few weeks. Then let the snake rest for a week, and try a small meal again. I have actually kept problem snakes on this “diet” for months, and it allows them to build themselves up slowly, since the liquid diet is so easy to digest, and the NB builds up the gut flora that should be there. I use ground up ferret food (Natural Gold Pretty Pet) instead of the egg yolk, and it has worked great. If you can keep them healthy long enough for them to rebuild themselves, they can usually get over whatever is “bugging” them!


The number of days and amounts of food, etc, suggested above are not set in stone. Other people may have success with slightly different formulas, but this is what I found works for me and many of my customers. If this protocol does not work when carefully followed, it is likely that the snake has some severe problems. Your only hope is a QUALIFIED herp vet, who may or may not be able to save your pet.

Please follow my care sheet for the first month or so when starting with new acquisitions (posted on my website for the first month's care of new corns).. The first month is crucial in getting the baby established. It is worth a little extra "coddling" for the first month in order to have a trouble free pet for the next 10 or 15 years or more.

[waldo]

Thanks Kathy, I must have missed the sticky but I was pretty fragged when I made the post. I wasn't planning on bringing home a snake, let alone a problem feeder. I'm hoping it was just temps or stress and not some kind of illness.
I didn't think to check temps in the rack but she is in a proper set up now so I hope she does well. If she continues to have issues, I have a feeling she will become a permanent addition.
I'll give her 10 day then try feeding, the probiotics I have is actually made for people but it has 10 different strains in it, figure its better then nothing.

[kathylove]

Since you mentioned a rack, I am assuming you have other snakes. If at all possible, I would quarantine this one (or any new snake, but especially if it regurged) for a while, preferably a couple of months or more.

[waldo]

I don't have a rack, this snake came from a pet store. I do have one other snake, a big creamsicle I've had for a number of years.
I do have them in the same room, I will move the little one tomorrow.

[kathylove]

Great - better safe than sorry!