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first regurge and in blue, what to do?

Hexadeci
10-18-2011, 12:09 AM
My hatchling Sherlock regurged last week. :( I last fed him on last Tuesday and I suspect the regurge was on the following Thursday, but I only just now found it today (Monday), at the bottom of the warm side. I found him in blue on Saturday so I skipped Sunday's feed (trying to avoid the regurge that I didn't even realize had already happened). Of course I'm super worried; he's my first snake and I've only had him for a month.

This was his 6th feeding with me, and he'd not had any issues before. He was reluctant to take the f/t pinkie; seemed disinterested until I waved it under his nose persistently, and then he took it from the tail end with the legs all splayed out after trying to take it from the middle. It was rather bizarre how it seemed like he trying gnawing on the middle, but I figured it was just a quirk. I had suspected he'd be in blue soon; for the last two weeks his scales have dulled and he's been reclusive, but his eyes were not clouded over until after the last feeding. I didn't handle him at all between Tuesday feeding and Saturday discovering he was in blue. The temperature is fine in theory: the warm side has been between 82 and 86, the cool side between 68 (night time low room temperature) and the warm side temp (83 day time high on Wednesday when it was really hot. So the days just after the critical feed were a bit warm, but I had hoped not too much. On Wednesday (day before or of regurge) I found him curled up at the top of the silk plant I'd just put in, so he was feeling active.

As you can imagine I wish I'd been more vigilant on Friday that I could have cleaned the tank sooner, but I had a bad feeling. Of course now I see in hindsight I should have responded to my intuition with activity, not inactivity.:sobstory:

So my question is, what could have gone wrong and now what do I do about it? I had planned to wait until he completed his shed before feeding, but now that I know he regurged last time, should I try to get a little food in him? I'm thinking I should still wait for the shed, maybe even more important now with the regurge, and then give him only half a pinkie (which half?), then 5 days and another half a pinkie, then resume regular feeding, avoiding blue feedings. I don't have any priobiotic on hand; should I buy some, and what kind/brands/sources? What if it takes him a long time to shed (a week or more)?

How do I clean up the regurge? I just spot cleaned by removing the paper towel and surrounded shredded paper, but should I change out all the shredded paper (substrate I'm using)? I did the big cleaning (changed all substrate and paper towels, wiped down with water and rubbing alcohol, wiped down again with water, dried) on Sunday October 9 (2 days before the regurgitated feeding).

Also his eyes were still cloudy blue when I checked on him today: is 2 days a long time for this phase?

Fatman608
10-18-2011, 12:45 AM
I would recommend reading the sticky in this section called " Health Issues/Feeding Problems FAQ"

I would also recommend buying a book

Corn Snakes in Captivity (Professional Breeders Series) by Don Soderberg or

Corn Snakes: The Comprehensive Owner's Guide (Herpetocultural Library, The) by Kathy Love and Bill Love

Destarte
10-18-2011, 03:17 AM
I think you're getting kick backs from Don and Kathy... You've recommended buying those books on almost every post the last couple days lol.

Hexadeci
10-18-2011, 03:23 AM
Thanks for the info Fatman608. :) I will definitely look into the books, and I have read the sticky thread as well as read through a search of this site.

I have lots of general information, but would appreciate some specific advise to the situation at hand. Should I be rushing off to the vet at day break (unlikely, I hope), or just follow a cautious protocol and hope for the best? I'm hoping the regurge was just because of the proximity to shed and/or fluke in the way he took the food.

And something I haven't seen addressed in much detail concerning regurges is the cleaning up after. Is the spot clean sufficient, or is a more vigorous cleaning called for? I feel super bad that I didn't find it sooner and it was basically sitting there on the warm side for like 5 days. I think if I'd have fed again it almost certainly would have caused another. I will obviously be more vigilant in checking the substrate, but I thought I was doing well spot cleaning the feces and that the lingering smell was just my imagination...

Please note, this is my first experience owning any sort of reptile at all. It's entirely possible I'm overlooking something that wouldn't even be thought to mentioned, though I've done my research.

Nanci
10-18-2011, 05:24 AM
Was he eating just single pinks? This is why I really, really try to avoid feeding a snake when they are blue, because they regurge! So now you are going to have to really watch his behaviour so you can spot when he is blue, before it is visible to the eye. Keep a calendar and if it's been a month and he hasn't shed, watch very closely. If he's staying hidden when he'd normally be out, for a couple days, you can bet he's blue. Especially in the evening.

So now, wait for him to shed. Do not feed until after he has shed. Feed his a pink head only for the first meal, no sooner than Saturday, no matter when he sheds. Buy a bottle of Nutribac from Kathy Love or wherever else on line you can find it. This is _important_. It will replace the probiotics, the beneficial bacteria needed for digestion.

Every five days I would feed :

Pink head
1/3 pink
1/2 pink
1/2 pink
2/3 pink, in two pieces
the headless pink, cut in half, both pieces
whole pink, cut in half, both pieces
whole pink, slit down the back and both sides

Continue on, watching for him to be blue and then not feeding until after he sheds. Put Nutribac on every food item, for six months to a year. Triple-slit all his prey items for six months. This makes them super-easy to digest. Because of the Nutribac, you may need to rinse him off after he feeds; it is very sticky. Just run him under room temp water from the faucet very briefly. he'll freak out the first one or two times; after that he won't care at all.

The reason Don and Kathy's books are always recommended is because they are the closest thing we have to a bible for cornsnakes! Each book offers something different so it's best to have both in your library. The third important book is Charles Pritzel's Cornsnake Morph Guide. A new edition is published in the early part of every year.

Good luck!

Cornelia
10-18-2011, 09:58 AM
Wow Nanci do you really do all that every time you have a regurge? I was thinking you had a lot of snakes so that seems like a ton of work. Better safe than sorry though, for sure. I've accidentally fed in blue a couple times but luckily haven't had any regurges. It's so hard to tell when my amel is about to shed.

Fatman608
10-18-2011, 12:48 PM
The only reason why I recommended Don's or Kathy's books is because I have both and read both. I think most people here want to be responsible snakes owners so they should have them and read them because a lot of the questions asked here would already be answered in the books.

Plus, I am a nerdy Fatman who likes to read books and find a lot of the answers to my questions in them there books.

Nanci
10-18-2011, 12:55 PM
Wow Nanci do you really do all that every time you have a regurge? I was thinking you had a lot of snakes so that seems like a ton of work. Better safe than sorry though, for sure. I've accidentally fed in blue a couple times but luckily haven't had any regurges. It's so hard to tell when my amel is about to shed.

Well it's not like I have a bunch of regurges going on all the time! I did have a triple regurge a few months ago. I thawed pinks for a group on the wrong day so I refrigerated the pinks immediately overnight and fed the next day. Three of four snakes regurged. I won't be doing that again...

Hexadeci
10-18-2011, 07:16 PM
Thanks much for the advice Nanci, I will definitely be following it!

I do have another question: at what stage in the shed cycle should I postpone feeding? Blue eyes for sure, but I can't be sure about his behavioral cues and color changes, yet, since I haven't had him long enough to establish expectations. He's been hiding more often for the last 2 weeks, but ate fine 2 or 3 times in that stage. If he sheds once every 4 weeks or so, and it's a 2 week process, that doesn't leave much time to eat...

Fatman608
10-18-2011, 09:56 PM
Not Nanci but I can tell what I do. Once the snake is back to eating normally. Just feed it like normal. If you happen to see that it is in blue skip feeding it until it sheds. It seems to me that the only time my snakes ever regurged was when they were under a year old. I have never had an older one regurge.