Getting worried

My little guy had a regurge last week, and I've been resisting the urge to feed him, because I know it's best for him. But he is just looking horrible. He's skinny, with little folds along his sides and moving around his cage very slowly. For the last two days he's been sitting out on his stick all morning, hoping for food I imagine. But today, he actively searching, however slowly. I'm just worried because he's only eaten once for me, and he's so skinny. Does one day make that much of a difference (it's been over a week since he regurged now)? Or should I just wait until tomorrow and stop letting my new mommy worries get the best of me?

I'm afraid I don't have any pictures. Our household isn't much into taking pictures so we don't have a good camara, and my cell just can't take good pictures of something so tiny.

Do you know why he regurged? Did you get Nutribac for him? I think, if the regurge was over a week ago, it would be okay to give him a pink head today. Then 1/3 of a pink in four days.

I recommend following Kathy Love's advice, this is from her protocol:

"FAQ from Kathy Love on Regurgitation Treatment

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT - once a snake has regurged, especially twice or more, it is more likely to keep on regurging until it dies, unless something is changed about its care and feeding. It is very important NOT to let this continue. PLEASE FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS BELOW VERY CAREFULLY. This is from my FAQ on regurges:

I suspect your problem is probably not bad mice, but about handling too soon, feeding too soon or too large of a meal, a stomach "bug", or improper temps. If you make these mistakes once, or even twice, it is not usually a problem if you FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY. But remember, each time it regurges, the stomach acids are depleted, and the whole electrolyte balance is thrown off more and more each time, and it makes it MORE likely that it will continue to throw up until it dies. (those consequences are just my opinions - I do not know if science backs up my conclusions, but my experience certainly does!) That is why it is so important to NOT ALLOW another regurge.

The next month or two is crucial. DO NOT feed it for AT LEAST 8 days since the last regurge. NOT ANYTHING AT ALL! Then get a newborn frozen pinky and cut it in half (or cut off just the head) If she eats it, leave her alone for a whole week. (no handling). Repeat the partial pinkie feeding the following week. Then feed a whole newborn pinkie a week after that, if there has been no regurge. Leave alone for a whole week. If she regurges, wait a week and repeat 1/2 pinkie. If she keeps it down, wait a week and repeat whole pinkie. If she holds down a couple of meals, DO NOT rush back into larger meals and more handling. Treat this seriously. Go very slowly. After 3 successful meals, go to a newborn pink every 5 days. Go back to normal feedings only after 6 successful meals. Always wait to handle until after 3 or 4 days, but only AFTER 6 successful meals. No handling until then (causes stress, need to keep stress down). And NEVER feed again right after a regurge - ALWAYS wait AT LEAST 7 or 8 days, maybe even up to 10 days, and then only feed something that was about 1/2 the size (or less) of what she regurged..

Also, be sure that temps are not too warm or cool. Try to give an area of low to mid 80s on one side and 70s on the other. Too hot or cold will cause regurges.

Grapefruit seed extract can sometimes help if the snake has some sort of "stomach bug" (any microbial problem) as it is a natural remedy that is good against many kinds of pathogens, but not as strong as an antibiotic prescribed by a doctor. This product has been used in agriculture for many years and seems to be very safe, as long as you dilute it with enough water that the acidity does not burn the tissues. A vet has told me he feels that it may somewhat alter the pH of the animal and thus change the way medicines are absorbed. So if you use this product and then take the snake to a vet, mention the treatment so it can be taken into account if the vet decides to change the prescription because of it. It is best to mix it in a glass and taste it to make sure it is not so bitter that the snake refuses to drink it. I have used it on myself and so has my husband. I find it works better on stomach problems than for other symptoms (such as respiratory - I didn't have any luck treating colds or other respiratory problems).You can buy it at a local health food store or online. Please refer to the following website for more background info:
http://www.nutriteam.com/index2.html

I have also had success with a probiotic called Nutri Bac, a fine powder containing seven different microflora that should be inhabiting the gut of reptiles, but may be absent due to stress, disease, antibiotic treatments, etc. Using the powder as a supplement will sometimes allow the reptile to get back the natural balance of microbes in its digestive tract, and then its own immune system can take over. See my website for more details, or go here:
http://www.cornutopia.com/Corn Ut...information.htm

The number of days and amounts of food, etc, suggested above are not set in stone. Other people may have success with slightly different formulas, but this is what I found works for me and many of my customers. If this protocol does not work when carefully followed, it is likely that the snake has some severe problems. Your only hope is a QUALIFIED herp vet, who may or may not be able to save your pet.

Please follow my care sheet for the first month or so when starting with new acquisitions (posted on my website for the first month's care of new corns).. The first month is crucial in getting the baby established. It is worth a little extra "coddling" for the first month in order to have a trouble free pet for the next 10 or 15 years or more."

No, I'm not sure why he regurged. His temps were ok, he didn't have anything to stress him unnaturally, and I don't think the pinkie was too big, but it's hard for me to tell. I asked for the smallest they had when I picked them up, and it was just a tad bigger than the one he ate successfully for me 6 days prior.

I do not have any nutribac unfortunately, though I will probably be ordering some soon.

I was planning on giving him a pink head five days apart like you had suggested to some others Nanci, but if you think he can handle every 4, I'd really like to get some weight on him. I plan to weigh him when I feed him so i can see how small he really is.

Thank you for the suggestion, Alicat, I had seen that, and Nanci's suggestions before.

I'm sad to say my little guy passed away last night. Looking back, I think he was having problems from the moment we got him, but it's hard to not feel horrible and like it's my fault. I just didn't have enough experience to know what to look for. Luckily, the son I bought him for isn't quite old enough to understand quite what happened.

We all really loved him the short time we had him, so maybe we'll look for another snake to grace our home after a while. Thank you everyone for all the advice and everything.

khena, im in no way saying this in a demeaning or disparaging way, but if youre going to get another snake soon, do a lot of research first, know atleast the basics of snake care, husbandry, health, etc. im sorry to hear about your little one. by the comment you made about him having folds in his skin it sounds like he was pretty dehydrated =[

I spent over a month before I got him deciding what snake would be best for our family, then learning proper husbandry. While I am sure I didn't do everything perfectly, the temperatures were in the proper range (82-86F on the hot side), the humidity was on the high side of recommended (50-60%), and I used a substrate others recommended here. After he regurged, I left him alone as everyone suggests apart from making sure he was still in his viv and changing his water out every other day (down from every day before the regurg). If there was something else I should have done, I simply don't know what it is.

While I readily admit I made a mistake getting him from a pet store, I thought I would be ok because it was not a big chain store, but a small exotics store. If I would have been around more snakes, I probably would have known that he was far too small before I bought him. He looked small to me, but I assumed it was just my inexperience. In my opinion, no one should be selling a corn snake that is barely 4 grams, but it was my fault for buying him.

I am so sorry for your loss.
Sometimes the smaller stores are the ones where the animals are sick. I would rather buy a snake from petco than any of the petstores near where I live, especially because I have been able to walk in and see mites crawling around on the reptiles. Perhaps next time you can find a breeder and order a snake? That way you almost assuredly get a healthy animal.

dont feel badly about getting your snake from a petstore. a lot of people have no problems with their petstore snakes, and their snakes grow and flourish just like any snake from a fancy breeder. and i know many people, including myself, that have happy healthy petstore snakes. petstore snakes need love too! and by rescuing snakes from a bad situation in a petstore you are doing a service for all petlovers by giving that poor neglected soul a chance at a good life and being loved. you did a good thing! you tried to save him, thats all you could do. poor guy was just beyond repair. so sorry =[

It sounds like he just wasn't right. I hope you feel okay to try again with an older, stronger snake. Hatchlings are so fragile. With a larger juvenile or adult, you _know_ there are not any congenital issues lurking.

You should clean the viv with ammonia and rinse well.

I'm sorry he didn't make it. To be honest, when you said he had skin folds and was moving slowly, I didn't have much hope but I didn't want you to worry unnecessarily, when there wasn't anything you could do anyway.

he was probably sick from the beginning. i got 3 snakes from a pet store.. the first two had respiratory infections and the third one, my actual corn, had mites (wich i miracoulously cured with not much effort).. good luck with your next pet and i'm sorry for your loss!

awwww, I'm so sorry. I think i mentioned that happened to me with a baby beardie and it was the most horrible thing. I know I didn't do anything wrong and he must have been ill when I got him.

Can anyone tell me about how much a hatchling would normally weigh? I got a non feeder born/hatched in August and I would guess she might be around 7 gms. I might weigh her today.

Khena - I don't really think you should worry too much if you get a petstore snake if it's larger - ask them for feeding records, etc. I have seen nice looking snakes at all of my local stores, a gal here who lives in my town got one and he's doing great, that same store has one I keep thinking about! (that is the one who actually got me wanting a corn). I have no doubt if I got him, he'd thrive.

I've also ordered a few here and they are all awesome. Check Craigslist too - that's where I got my first 2 babies who were a month old. They were pretty cheap and they are doing well too.

Again, I'm very sorry

A normal hatchling can weigh from 4-10 grams. Sometimes they fall outside that range. It depends on the eggs size and other factors.

Thank you everyone for the kind words. I'll give everything a good cleaning then decide what to do. I'm sure I'll stick around here until then...

It's not your fault. Snakes make the _best_ pets. Don't give up!! It would take extremely blatant mismanagement to kill a baby snake in such a short period of time and your management of the regurge was perfect. Rushing to feed would only cause another regurge and that would have been the end. Snakes can stay alive for _months_ without eating, so he didn't starve to death in your care. He had something wrong and even if you'd taken him to a vet immediately it is highly unlikely that anything would have been discovered, much less been treatable. It just happens, and it's very, very sad, but they aren't all meant to make it. If you get an older baby, or even an adult (they live 20 years or longer, so no need to worry about an older animal not having a long life with you- plus, a snake is nearly fully grown at 2 years of age) it will be lots more fun and way less fragile.

Plenty of adult snakes on the classifieds. I need to keep my nose out of that section.

Nanci is right though, there is a huge difference in handling the hatchling vs the larger ones. I was holding my new 1 year old and it's way different than the hatchling handling. The one I got is so docile. She went around my neck and was flicking her tongue in my hair and it felt funny.