Very hungry corn snake

[JKD1]

Hi there,

I'm new to the forum and I had a question about my 9(ish) month corn baby, Dexter. He currently eats two thawed pinkies (we thaw them in hot water until they are warm). We've had Dex for about 3 months now and he's been on that amount since we picked him up. He's never had any trouble eating, the first week we had him he accepted food readily. He's also had one shed so far.

Here's my question: recently he's been getting -very- hungry on feeding days. He burrows when he's hungry (never does it otherwise, he's a climber) and he's been burrowing a day sooner these days. Also he stares at his pinkies while he's waiting in his feeding box (we use a clear breeding box) for them and when we finally do feed him after his waiting time he leaps right up at the feeding tongs instantly. He startled me last week when he bit into the pinkie and my tongs right as I opened the top of his box, I had to shake him off and he coiled right round his food. He also downs the first pinkie in less than a minute and the second in a matter of 30 seconds or so. I get the feeling he's not satisfied after the two pinkies, when is an appropriate time to up the size of the food? And should I move onto one fuzzy or 3 pinkies?

Thank you for your time.

[snakewispera snr]

Personally I wouldn't multiple feed...
Does the food you give him leave a noticeable lump?
And one shed in 6 months... Did I read that right?

[AliCat37]

Are the two pinkies leaving a lump in his belly? How often are you feeding him?
I usually go by the width of the snake. They should be having a prey item that is the same width or a little larger than they are at their widest point. Many people use the munson plan, which goes by weight.
This is the munson plan:
When they're on single pinks (2-3g),
I feed every 4-5 days.................. ...( Snake = 4-15g )

Double pinks (3g x 2)
every 4-5 days................ .............( Snake = 16-23g )

Small fuzzies (5-7g)
every 5-6 days. ............................( Snake = 24-30g )

Regular fuzzies (7-9g)
every 5-6 days.............. ...............( Snake = 30-50g )

Hoppers (9-12g)
every 5-6 days .............................( Snake = 51-90g )

Weaned (14-20g)
every 7 days................................ ( Snake = 91-170g )

Adult (24-30g)
every 7-x days .............................( Snake = 170+ )

Jumbo Adults (40-50g)
every 7-x days .............................( Snake = 400g+ )

[JKD1]

We've had one shed in the three months we've had him, roughly in the middle of November. I'm quite confident he's had more at the store we bought him from prior to that. The double pinkies is what the store reccommended when we got him too.

We're new at this, it's our first corn snake so we followed the instructions given by the people we boguht him from. The food does leave a noticable bump, yes.

[JKD1]

Also, we feed him once every 7. Perhaps that's the issue.

[AliCat37]

I only feed mine every 7 days. If there is a lump for 24 hours after you feed him you're doing fine.

[AliCat37]

Like I said, I don't follow the munson plan. I feed a prey item that is a little larger than the width of the snake once a week.

[JKD1]

Thank you both for your swift reply.

[Iulia]

How big is your snake? How much does he weigh?

[snakewispera snr]

I was chatting with Munson (Deano), about the Munson plan last week...
He recommended chatting with Carol (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/carol) (on here) as she is a very experienced keeper and can advise better on feeding... In fact there are quite a few experienced keepers on here who have great advice on feeding....
The Munson plan is only a guide and not written in stone...

[JKD1]

Dex is just under 2 ft. I'm not entirely sure about his weight. I've never considered weighing him.

[snakewispera snr]

Direct quote from the man himself.....

That's too bad. The original MP was too aggressive. Had I listened to some of the others there, especially Carol, I could have avoided some problems. The newbs should understand that with people Carol (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/carol) like http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/carol still active in the hobby and on the site, the ghost of Roy Munson should be of negligible influence!

[crturley]

Can you tell us how thick the snake is? If not in inches or centimeters, then compared to the pinkies?

Also . . . some snakes are just simply more aggressive in their feeding display than others. I feed all mine of the same age the same amounts on the same schedule, and yet I have some who will sidle up to the mouse and half-heartedly nibble at it, and others who go into a tail-flying, mouse-squeezing ball of frenzy. They're getting the same amount as their neighbors; they're just a lot more eager for it.

As hard as it is not to want them to get bigger in a hurry, you're better off feeding him a bit too little than a bit too much . . . especially if it's a male. Dunno if you're planning to breed him ever, but male's fertility rates can be harmed by excess body fat. Not to mention that he'll not live as long.

One final note: how warm is the part of his cage where he spends the most time? How much you can get away with feeding him depends a lot on the digestion temp.

Congrats on having a voracious young fella!

[snakewispera snr]

Dude... Forget measuring..
A 9 month old, 2ft snake should not be on pinkies... He's much too big for them..
No wonder his sheds are 3 months apart..
You want one food item that is 1.5 times as big as his fattest girth....
Try him in something as fat as him for a few feeds first...

[Iulia]

Direct quote from the man himself.....
The original MP was too aggressive.

What do you mean by too aggressive?

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

I am giving this advice only as JMHO.... I would say if he is taking down 2 like that and they leave a bump but he may be hungry quickly after.... maybe try a 5 day and see if that might help? I do feed little ones every 5 days but the normal around here is every 7 but if I have one that is super hungry like that, I will put it on every 5 days for abit and work him back to 7 days.

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

Dude... Forget measuring..
A 9 month old, 2ft snake should not be on pinkies... He's much too big for them..
No wonder his sheds are 3 months apart..
You want one food item that is 1.5 times as big as his fattest girth....
Try him in something as fat as him for a few feeds first...

Mike, I think he did a typo. He said 3 months but I think he ment 3 weeks... he has only had it since the middle of november :)

[JKD1]

He's still quite slender, I would say that the pinkie is about the same thickness as he is. I would hold him up to one to check but it's feeding day and he'd try to eat it, ha!

He's in a 20 gallon tank, with a heating lamp on one side (there's a day and night one). The average temperature in the tank is 80 degrees farenheit and his humidity sits at about 40-55%. The shed he's had was very healthy, all in one piece. He spends most of his time on the warm side, I'd estimate the warm side to be about 85 degrees and a little less humid. He has a two "storey" hide on that side with damp moss on the bottom layer and he sits up top there for most of his time. He doesn't venture into the cool side except to drink water or explore since his climbing branches criss-cross the tank.

If it helps any I could take a picture of the bugger and post it?

[crturley]

If the snake is 2 ft (which was posted while I was typing the other), than I agree even 2 pinkies is likely too little. Age has nothing to do with it; I've seen 6-month-olds that looked like 1-month hatchlings, based on their birth size and being very lightly fed.

Another good guide on the prey size is how easily he handles it. If he can swallow the mouse in 30 seconds, as you mentioned, then it's probably too small. Not saying you should give him something that will take 10 minutes to eat; just that there should be some awkwardness with limbs and stretching to get around it, even if it's just the right size.

So, without knowing the exact thickness, I'd concur it's probably time for fuzzies.

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

Pics would help a lot. Try to take one next to something so we can see a size guestimate :)

[JKD1]

No, I've had him since the middle of October. He shed in November, it's now exactly the middle of December and the third month he's lived with us.

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

ok sorry :) too many pain killers today I guess! :) Thanks for clearing that up. Sorry I made such a mistake! geez I am embarrassed! :(

[JKD1]

Pics are coming! Wow, so much attention haha

[crturley]

But still, that means his sheds *could* be 1.5 months apart, if he shed just prior to purchase, and will again soon. If it's much longer, though, he's likely not getting enough.

[JKD1]

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa465/kas603/12152011042.jpg
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa465/kas603/12152011041.jpg

That's Dex, and a standard bic pen for comparison. Pardon the mess behind me, we're students and it's finals season so things are being left strewn about in our home office.

[snakewispera snr]

What do you mean by too aggressive?

Too regimented is my guess..... I'll ask Deano when I chat with him next to see what he meant...

ok sorry :) too many pain killers today I guess! :) Thanks for clearing that up. Sorry I made such a mistake! geez I am embarrassed! :(
Alcohol in my case.... LOL... Forums and meanings.... pfft... LOL

But still, that means his sheds *could* be 1.5 months apart, if he shed just prior to purchase, and will again soon. If it's much longer, though, he's likely not getting enough.
1.5 months is cool.... I thought..... Oh never mind.... LOL

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

Pics are coming! Wow, so much attention haha

That is what makes this site and this community really special :) We all care so much for our animals that we really want to help others with any problem that may come up. We want everyone to luv and enjoy their animals as much as we do our own. :) Plus, pics?! We all LUV to see pics! hehe :D

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

LOL @ Mike :D

Yep, you guessed right! He needs More food per meal. by that I mean he needs something bigger to munch on. When you go to get food next time, try to remember how wide he is or take something about the same size as him with you... Get a bigger meal item. Probably something they will call large pinks or small fuzzy or something like that but get the ones that are about the same width as he is and stay with the 5-7 day feedings. you will see that will make all the difference! :)

[crturley]

Pics are always good. :)

I think that fella needs fuzzies.

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

Geez, I am bad today!!! my forgetter is working over time!! You have a really nice looking Amel and looks in good shape :) Beware when you get to feeding him bigger meals, he will grow really fast for abit. hehe lots of sheds coming your way :)

[JKD1]

Thanks everyone for helping us out. We've been debating if he needs more food for a while now and couldn't reach a concensus. I'll get him some small fuzzies as soon as I can.

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

Thanks for posting up pics. It really helped in suggesting bigger meals :) Good luck and congrats on such a pretty snake and such a good eater from a pet shop! We dont usually hear that from pet shops.

[visceralrepulsion]

I'd have to agree with everyone. He looks very healthy and very pretty, just a bit underweight, probably due to having too small of and not as nutritious meals. I would also suggest small or maybe even average/larger fuzzies. The idea to bring something with thats close to the same size is a great idea, so when you buy you can compare the fuzzie size to your snakes girth. And Cat Eyed Lady is right about a growth spurt coming your way when you change your feeder size. Not only are the meals bigger and more filling, but the mice also become more nutritious as they become bigger in size. You'll definitely be getting some sheds fairly frequently once he's on his new fuzzies. Then soon you'll be able to move up the mouse size again up to hoppers hopefully. Good luck!