Yet another regurge!!

[nelshumer04]

So, the skinny on it all. I have a 1 1/2 male Sunglow Stripe. I have had him for about 5 or 6 months now. He is very skinny, and has been since I got him. I last weighed him 2 weeks ago at 78g. Anyways, I got him beginning of August, he regurged on me once about 2 or 3 feedings after I got him. That time i am 99.3945% sure that it was due to handling to early. Well anyways, he has been feeding / pooping / shedding normal since his 1st regurge back in beginning of Sep, however he has put 0 weight on him. Since I got him til now, he has actually drop'd about 10-15g. His feeding schedule is pretty norm, feeds every 7 days, eats 2 hoppers, have been getting much smaller hoppers last month or so. Between Sep 1st - Oct 31st he was being fed 3 smaller hoppers a feeding and had no problem (normal poops and sheds) .

So, point of this thread. 3 weeks ago I fed Ranja, typical meal, 2 small hoppers, 3 days later came home from work with a regurge in the cage. Put him into solidarity for 10 days, gave him a couple days back in the cage before I fed him again. So, fed him again last Thurs, woke up this morning to another regurge. This time, the mouse looked almost fully there. Didn't seem to show any signs of dissolving from stomach acids. I have an appointment for the vet today, so will see what he says, but really just looking for any advice or any help at all. It has me worried for the main fact that he has NOT grown at all for the last 4 or 5 months I have had him. And now he's regurged twice in a 1 month period.

Also, Im sure this part is going to bring some heat, but if I need help I need to provide everything. I had him in his own cage for pretty much the entire time I have had him. However, in the beginning of December I purchased a beautiful Salmon Snow from Don at SMR, and had quite a bit of life complications and ended up putting my Sunglow and Salmon in the same cage. I have them in a very large cage, with multiple hides on Warm / Cool side. He has fed normaly for 3 or 4 feedings WHILE living in the cage with the Salmon, and as far as I can tell (since I am not Dr. Doolittle) they get along pretty well. They slither and explore together and have never had a fight or anything stressful happen that I have seen. Obviouslly I know that having 2 corns in the same cage is already enough reasoning for stress to cause multiple regurges. However, my mind thought was that regardless of the housing situation, he is known to have regurged before, so you already have a past problem, and he has been living / eating fine for a month or so w/ a roommate and no problems. Thanks guys.

[bitsy]

I honestly think you've answered your own question there - and you probably know it in your heart of hearts.

Corns don't always change behaviours or show stress, immediately. Sometimes the length of time an undesirable situation goes on, is the cause of the stress. Your chap might be particularly susceptible, given his early history of regurging and the fact that he doesn't seem to have been physically thriving before the new arrival. Basically, it was already a poor situation for him, and might very well have been made worse.

The only way to be sure that it isn't the cohabbing causing the regurges, is to separate them for several months and see if it stops.

I'd also worry that your original Corn may have something transmissible which could pass to your new one.

[beautifullywild77]

First, I would seperate them immediately regardless of the first regurge, the mulitiple regurges is a strong indication that he is stressed. The first regurge could of been caused by a wide range of problems. Are the snakes the same size? Are you sure of who is regurging? There could be some kind of parasite causing the regurge and now the other is exposed as well.

Sorry to say you wont probably find a lot of support on here on cohabbing. Most of us believe it is harmful to the snakes overall well being and health not to mention the risks that come along with it.

Usually with a regurge they recommend the wait time of 7-10days plus feeding a size or two smaller prey size than normal. It takes a good two to three months of following the plan to get their stomach acids back up to par. Also, many recommend Nutribac as well.

Good luck with the Vet. Multiple regurges is extremely harmful

[beautifullywild77]

What Vet do you use in Albuquerque?

[Nanci]

1. If your snake hasn't gained weight, and has, in fact lost weight, since August, he needs a trip to the vet.

2. Why are you feeding three hoppers? That is triple what a snake that weight should be eating.

3. _If_ he has a contagious disease or parasites, you have now exposed the new snake to that as well.

When you resume feeding, you need to start off with a medium fuzzy. I'd put him on a five day schedule, and feed nothing larger than one hopper until he is over 90 grams, at which point you can change to weanlings. You also need to buy Nutribac and put that on his meals for the next 6-12 months. In addition, I would never feed this snake while blue.

[nelshumer04]

Ya, took the trip today. Doc said he seemed to look in very good health, and in his opinion there is a good chance the regurges are due to inadequate heat. Even tho his heat / enclosure have not changed.

He was getting fed 3 smaller hoppers, almost being fuzzies. Ranja is a veryyyy picky eater, so instead of 2 mediums, he was getting 3 smalls. Doc told me to put him on a 5 day / 1 medium meal plan instead of 2 / 7 days.

And yes unfortanitly I had to place both in the same enclosure, however getting Rid of either of them was far from an option. However that is why I have a poop sample in the docs vile in the fridge. So I know 100% if I have to pay for another snakes $100 vet bill.

1. If your snake hasn't gained weight, and has, in fact lost weight, since August, he needs a trip to the vet.

2. Why are you feeding three hoppers? That is triple what a snake that weight should be eating.

3. _If_ he has a contagious disease or parasites, you have now exposed the new snake to that as well.

When you resume feeding, you need to start off with a medium fuzzy. I'd put him on a five day schedule, and feed nothing larger than one hopper until he is over 90 grams, at which point you can change to weanlings. You also need to buy Nutribac and put that on his meals for the next 6-12 months. In addition, I would never feed this snake while blue.

[bitsy]

I agree with you - a heat problem seems a little unlikely as the setup hasn't changed. Especially as the second snake in the tank is digesting normally.

What are the temps on the *floor* of the tank, on the warm and cool sides?

Your problem now is that the vet has recommended higher temps for your regurger. Unfortunately, the temp as it stands seems fine for the new arrival's digestion. So if you push the temp up, you risk the second snake starting to regurge.

At the very least, having two Corns per tank is going to give you a husbandry headache.

If you spent your $100 on another tank setup, you might avoid more vet bills altogether.

[nelshumer04]

I already have him seperated in his own enclosure. He now has a week and a half to himself to think abou what hes done :D . But ya, they are definitly being seperated for good, my living conditions are allowing me it now luckily. Ya, I'm going to keep his enclosure alittle warmer than the others.

I have it at about 80 degrees warm side, around 67 degrees for cold. Doc told me to raise it to about 83 or so. But I was just refering to the $100 for a parasite treatment for the other one if his poop sample comes up positive.

I agree with you - a heat problem seems a little unlikely as the setup hasn't changed. Especially as the second snake in the tank is digesting normally.

What are the temps on the *floor* of the tank, on the warm and cool sides?

Your problem now is that the vet has recommended higher temps for your regurger. Unfortunately, the temp as it stands seems fine for the new arrival's digestion. So if you push the temp up, you risk the second snake starting to regurge.

At the very least, having two Corns per tank is going to give you a husbandry headache.

If you spent your $100 on another tank setup, you might avoid more vet bills altogether.

[nelshumer04]

Oh wow, didnt know you were in ABQ as well. I went and saw Dr. Melloy and Petroglyph.

They are pretty much the same size, and ya, I'm 99.9% sure I know who regurged.

What Vet do you use in Albuquerque?

[CornyApollo]

I hate to sound rude, but if you don't have the money to buy another container, you shouldn't have gotten the snake in the first place. That's simply irresponsible.

A plastic tub costs about $7. Could you go that route? I know many corn owners who use plastic shoeboxes to keep corns successfully.

[bitsy]

Glad your "problem child" now has his own solo quarters! Hopefully he can settle down again for you.

If the temp measurement is accurate and from the floor surface, then I'd agree that 80 is a wee bit on the cool side (not drastically so). Although I have to say that in my experience, with a heat lamp *and* a heat mat, I'd expect the actual temp to be much higher unless one or the other was malfunctioning.

What sort of thermometer do you have and do you have any controls on the mat and lamp to turn them on/off automatically when the top temp is reached?

[nelshumer04]

Well, I do have another cage, so everything is being taken care of. Your right, it would probably be irresponsible to buy multiple snakes w/o having enclosures for them. However, I DID have multiple enclosures for them, and everyone was living seperatly until the unfortunate event when my roommate passed away from a car accident and basically left me homeless for a few weeks, forcing me to either sell my entire snake collection or keep as many as I could at a friends, and fellow snake enthusiast. So, at that point I decided to sell 1 snake, get rid of a cage and put the 2 together so I DIDNT have to get rid of them all.

I do know housing corns together is a no-no, and obviouslly it was the last thing I wanted to do, however, happens and sometimes you have to do things that probably wouldn't be your first option.

He is seperated now, he has his own enclosure, that has been taken care of. However, the point of this thread was to get some ideas and opinions on what could be causing multiple regurges in a row BESIDES the housing situation. Obviously I know that the housing situation alone is enough stress to cause the regurges, but with past regurges and normal feedings prior to this is causing me to worry that there is something ELSE that is causing these regurges.

Simply calling someone irresponsible w/o knowing any information or knowing the reasoning / story of why this has happened, is irresponsible.

I hate to sound rude, but if you don't have the money to buy another container, you shouldn't have gotten the snake in the first place. That's simply irresponsible.

A plastic tub costs about $7. Could you go that route? I know many corn owners who use plastic shoeboxes to keep corns successfully.

[nelshumer04]

Hehe he is a problem child. Ya, thats what the doc was saying, put it alittle higher and see how that works. Do you recommend using lamp AND mat? I was thinking of running a lamp during the day and a heat mat at night, keep the mat alittle cooler.

Thermometer im using is just digi one, bought at a local pet store. Believe its a Zilla.

Glad your "problem child" now has his own solo quarters! Hopefully he can settle down again for you.

If the temp measurement is accurate and from the floor surface, then I'd agree that 80 is a wee bit on the cool side (not drastically so). Although I have to say that in my experience, with a heat lamp *and* a heat mat, I'd expect the actual temp to be much higher unless one or the other was malfunctioning.

What sort of thermometer do you have and do you have any controls on the mat and lamp to turn them on/off automatically when the top temp is reached?

[bitsy]

Obviously I know that the housing situation alone is enough stress to cause the regurges, but with past regurges and normal feedings prior to this is causing me to worry that there is something ELSE that is causing these regurges.

I think he had an initial problem which it sounds like you overcame. Then either the problem was triggered again by the arrival of the second snake, or there's a new problem. Maybe he's caught something from the new snake? TBH, at this stage, you won't be able to tell which of these scenarios is the correct one. Just keep an eye on the new arrival in case it gets sick.

For the moment, I'd concentrate more on treating the current regurge problem, than worrying about what caused it.

Now that he's in "batchelor quarters", I suggest that you firstly double-check the temp on the floor at the warm end with a digital or infra-red thermometer. With both a heat mat and lamp, my own experience is that I'd expect it to be much higher than the current reading you're getting. High temps will interefere with digestion and cause regurges.

Secondly, follow the regurge protocol on this FAQ:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28342

It was written by Kathy Love, a member here and a world expert on keeping Corns.

[nelshumer04]

Ya, I actually own Kathy's book and quite a few others. I'v definitly been going by protocols, the new snake was quaritined before they were put together, and neither showed any signs of sickness before putting them together. Both ate about 3 or 4 meals before housed together. Ate and pooped normal.

And ya, you are right. At this point, there is nothing I can prove or disprove. So, Im just gonna go by typical regurge protocol, keep him in Timeout for a couple weeks. I gotta take a poop sample in, so if it comes up positive looks like another snake gets to go to the vet for some antibiotics. LOL



I think he had an initial problem which it sounds like you overcame. Then either the problem was triggered again by the arrival of the second snake, or there's a new problem. Maybe he's caught something from the new snake? TBH, at this stage, you won't be able to tell which of these scenarios is the correct one. Just keep an eye on the new arrival in case it gets sick.

For the moment, I'd concentrate more on treating the current regurge problem, than worrying about what caused it.

Now that he's in "batchelor quarters", I suggest that you firstly double-check the temp on the floor at the warm end with a digital or infra-red thermometer. With both a heat mat and lamp, my own experience is that I'd expect it to be much higher than the current reading you're getting. High temps will interefere with digestion and cause regurges.

Secondly, follow the regurge protocol on this FAQ:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28342

It was written by Kathy Love, a member here and a world expert on keeping Corns.

[CornyApollo]

I understand wanting to keep both in a situation, but you have to admit, both shouldn't have been put together. I didn't mean to offend, honestly. :) I meant well. Sometimes people don't realize they're not treating their snakes right, so I merely wanted to speak up.

I'm glad they're separated now. Hopefully your babe will stop regurgitating.

[nelshumer04]

No no, not at all. I apologize if I seemed snappy, I blame scanning the forums during a hectic work day. Ya, he's got his own spot and been crawling around all day. He should be ok after a few weeks or so, hopefully.

I understand wanting to keep both in a situation, but you have to admit, both shouldn't have been put together. I didn't mean to offend, honestly. :) I meant well. Sometimes people don't realize they're not treating their snakes right, so I merely wanted to speak up.

I'm glad they're separated now. Hopefully your babe will stop regurgitating.