undigested pinkies

[donnie]

I got a snow corn in January. It hatched in September I think. I got it at a reptile expo and the vendor didn't have any info for me. I already had three corns and have always gotten feeding records. For weeks I thought it was regurgitating mice 2-3 days after feeding and tried everything to remedy it. He's in a tank with three other snakes I got from a different vendor the same day. None of the other snakes were regurgitating. I recently learned that the snow isn't regurgitating at all; it's worse. The pinkies are passing through the snakes system almost completely undigested. It's been on two small pinkies a week, like the other three, since I got em. He's weaker and less active than the others. My question is will this clear up or is it slowly dying?

[crotalis40741]

I would say take it to the vet. That many snakes living together is going to stress them out. And if one is sick it will infect the others. And like you have seen it is hard to tell for sure which snake is not doing well from pooh or regurges. I would really suggest that you house them separately and when you get new snakes in QUARENTINE them in a different room.

[Jenw]

I agree. Separate, quarantine and find a vet.

[donnie]

Really? I would think if it were parasites or disease I would have problems out of the others as well by now. Anyway a vet around here is out of the question and I'm not taking a $15 snake for a $300 vet bill lol. My hypo, my ghost, and my candy cane all live very nicely in a 20 gallon high. They bask together coiled up in the vines and hide together coiled up under the cork. They're very active and healthy. My younger ones, my butter, my lavender, my amel, and the snow all are very small and live in a 10 gallon. The lavender attacked the snow and clamped onto it's neck the day I got em. I haven't had any stress related problems out of any of my yearlings or the other babies. Does anybody know about breeding problems that might cause this?

[crotalis40741]

See that is the thing with reptiles getting sick, by the time one gets that bad that you can notice it is really bad. And without a vet checkup you may never know what is causing it. Did you know that canabalism happens at a higher rate with young snakes then it does with older ones? But any age can do it.


here is a link for you to look over

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31192&highlight=cohabbing

[beautifullywild77]

I havent read anything about this kind of thing resulting from bad breeding. Honestly I think its stress related. The others might be infected but not showing signs because they arent as stressed . However, if it is a disease or parasite than you will never know since you are not willing to go the vet. Truthfully putting your entire collection at risk. Which is ignorant within itself. You came here asking for help but you totally blew off both suggestions. I dont think you are going to get many others.

[beautifullywild77]

I would also suggest doing more research in owning and caring for corn snakes. There is a wonderful book by Kathy and Bill Love as well as one by Don Soderberg.

[donnie]

I have heard a lot about inbred corns and breeding the feeding instinct out of blood reds, for example, and some of my research has pointed to bad husbandry. I studied corns for a year before I got my first one and have never heard of undigested mice.

[GoFride]

:nope: donnie, I hope this is not a troll thread. If this is for real, my apologies.

[beautifullywild77]

Never heard of breeding out the feeding instinct in bloodred let alone corns. But yes bad husbandary would be my first guess as to why your little guy is dying.

[crotalis40741]

I have heard a lot about inbred corns and breeding the feeding instinct out of blood reds, for example, and some of my research has pointed to bad husbandry. I studied corns for a year before I got my first one and have never heard of undigested mice.


I would really like to see the literature cited on the breeding the feeding instinct out of bloods.

[donnie]

From Donnie's girlfriend.....First of all, we have 7 snakes and no problems out of the other 6. They all are good eaters, digest just fine, and seem very active. They are shedding and all have gotten bigger. This one snake even when we did quarantine had the same result. The vets we have here do not have a lot to do with snakes. So, we don't have the option of taking it there or I would have already done that. Our main reason of posting on here was to see if anyone else has had any of these problems and knew why and how to help this snake. We decided to get corn snakes because a friend of ours has had a corn snake for almost 2 and a half years with no problems. So, anyone have any idea why this is happening and what we can do OTHER than taking it to a vet.

[AliCat37]

If they are sitting together, and curling up together, then they are fighting. I agree that the stress of having them living together is causing your snake to go down hill. And honestly, in my opinion, if you are not willing to spend money on vet bills, don't have pets. It doesn't matter how much the animal cost, it is a living breathing being, denying it proper vet care is animal cruelty.

[crotalis40741]

From Donnie's girlfriend.....First of all, we have 7 snakes and no problems out of the other 6. They all are good eaters, digest just fine, and seem very active. They are shedding and all have gotten bigger. This one snake even when we did quarantine had the same result. The vets we have here do not have a lot to do with snakes. So, we don't have the option of taking it there or I would have already done that. Our main reason of posting on here was to see if anyone else has had any of these problems and knew why and how to help this snake. We decided to get corn snakes because a friend of ours has had a corn snake for almost 2 and a half years with no problems. So, anyone have any idea why this is happening and what we can do OTHER than taking it to a vet.


As Donnie stated he would not spend $300 on a $15 dollar snake was already mentioned so the vet argument you are stating is invalid. The vets here don't do snakes either but have one about 80 miles away and I go there. I do know there are instances where people can't afford to do it and I understand that. But what it comes down to, you came on here asking for help and we offered what we thought would help you and mostly the snakes and because it didn't agree with what you are doing you choose to get offensive and not listen. So be it, it is on your hands. And if all the research had been done on husbandry and corns the cohabbing thing would not have come up.

[beautifullywild77]

From Donnie's girlfriend.....First of all, we have 7 snakes and no problems out of the other 6. They all are good eaters, digest just fine, and seem very active. They are shedding and all have gotten bigger. This one snake even when we did quarantine had the same result. The vets we have here do not have a lot to do with snakes. So, we don't have the option of taking it there or I would have already done that. Our main reason of posting on here was to see if anyone else has had any of these problems and knew why and how to help this snake. We decided to get corn snakes because a friend of ours has had a corn snake for almost 2 and a half years with no problems. So, anyone have any idea why this is happening and what we can do OTHER than taking it to a vet.

I have never had this problem with my snakes. I, honestly, believe that is stress related, or some kind of parasite or disease. The snakes system is not disesting the pinkie therefore not getting the nutrients it needs to survive. The only way to find out why is to get it to a vet. Your bf stated earlier that he is not willing to pay 100 dollars on a vet bill for a 15 dollar snake.

[niki_g]

Even with the issues and thoughts on cohabbing aside - don't you think that's an awful tight space to be fitting that many snakes into? Cohabbing is your choice, although not a suggested one, but I think if you are going that route then you seriously need larger tanks.

Honestly, I think it is just difficult for people to give you any other advice besides to separate at this point. Stress is an obvious cause that is the simplest to deal with, and if it's not that, you should rule it out as a possibility. How do you know which snake is having the issue? Have you seen that snake defecate?

[donnie]

Actually it was a breeder that explained how the feeding instinct ruined the blood red market breeding. But there's plenty of info on the web about bad husbandry.

[beautifullywild77]

If the lavender attacked the snow and bite his neck... YOU HAVE STRESSED OUT SNAKES. The dominance of the lavender over the snow will stress them out beyond words. Stress can lead to bactria or parasites in the snakes body to overrun the system. Stress can also cause poor disgesting, does your snakes have belly heat? It is very important for hatchlings to have belly head to properly digest food... If you had done a YEAR of research some of things things could of been avoided and You quite possibly could have a healthy thriving snow!

[donnie]

Why is it if they coil up and sleep together that they are fighting??? Please explain this cause every breeder I talked to at the, Midwest Reptile Exhibit's, their snakes are always coiled up together and seem very content. Don't mean to sound "bitchy" however I just don't see how this is "fighting"...

[donnie]

Yes, they have proper adequate heat. As stated before their are 4 snakes all together, same ages who all except for the one are completely fine. None of them have attacked the other since they were first taken out. I believe they were hungry since after they ate they have not done this since and we have had them for over 2 months. This snow was like this before we got it, it passed a pinky the vendor had fed it before we bought it. So, that leads us to believe it CAME with whatever is wrong with it. I WOULD be willing to take it to a vet if we had one that would treat it. However we don't.

[beautifullywild77]

I can tell you without a doubt that 4 yearlings in a 20g high is not enough room and 4 hatchlings in a 10g is not enough room. In Europe, they commanly cohab and do it successfully BUT they are in HUGE enclosures or vivs.

Personally, my yearlings are house in seperater 20g long. My hatchlings all have their very own 10g. I do not have stressed out snakes. Nor do I have repeated health problems or any snakes that have a failure to thrive or properly digest their food. They all have UTH on thermostats with correct temps. 85 on the hot side and 70-75 on the cool side. They all have a water bowl, 2 hides (one for cold and one for hot) They also have toliet paper or paper towel rolls as hides for in between. I have had 3 regures from 3 different snakes, 1 was because I feed a prey item slightly too big, 1 was I feed right before they went in blue and the last is from a tiny baby I saved from a cohabbing nightmare with horrible husbandary, incorrect temps and humidity and underfed.

However, I did do my research for a year before we started keeping corns. I also joined this site and began devouring all the information I could. I also take any sick animal to the vet immediately. I do have other rescued snakes that have come in to my care from cohabbing nightmares as well. So speaking from experiences from someone who has rescued this snakes and nursed them back to health. I would seperate your snakes immediately. Stress can kill your snakes and I would rather not risk the life of mine out pure ignorances. JMHO

[Charlotte]

When you buy an animal, you promise it food, shelter, and healthcare. For LIFE. You aren't willing to take a $15 snake to the vet for frear of a $300 vet bill? I hope you never have kids.

Also, I hope your corns don't eat each other because of how hungry they are.

[donnie]

We separated them all into their own tanks and after they were fed, 3 days later, we had found what looked like a pinky partially digested. We also have a 10 gallon, two 20 gallon long, 20 gallon high, and 55 gallon tanks. We had planned to move them into bigger tanks very soon.

[beautifullywild77]

Yes, they have proper adequate heat. As stated before their are 4 snakes all together, same ages who all except for the one are completely fine. None of them have attacked the other since they were first taken out. I believe they were hungry since after they ate they have not done this since and we have had them for over 2 months. This snow was like this before we got it, it passed a pinky the vendor had fed it before we bought it. So, that leads us to believe it CAME with whatever is wrong with it. I WOULD be willing to take it to a vet if we had one that would treat it. However we don't.

If the snow came that way, you have no clue what came with it and now all the other snakes that are housed with him could be exposed to something that could killed them and make them die a slow miserable death just like it seems this snow is doing.

There are so horrible diseases and parasites out there.

I am sorry I can't help you or give your anymore information than I already have.

[donnie]

First of all we have 4 WONDERFUL kids! Also, we love our snakes and are concerned for them that's WHY we got on here and are asking! They all eat EVERY WEEK quite hefty meals at that!!! Did you not see the further posts about NOT HAVING A VET HERE THAT WILL DEAL WITH A CORN SNAKE!?? Please do NOT ever question my ability to take care of our kids! I didn't get on here and bad mouth you for asking a flipping question that we were just looking for advice on. Hoping that someone else may have ran into the same problem!!

[donnie]

If the snow came that way, you have no clue what came with it and now all the other snakes that are housed with him could be exposed to something that could killed them and make them die a slow miserable death just like it seems this snow is doing.

There are so horrible diseases and parasites out there.

I am sorry I can't help you or give your anymore information than I already have.

Thank you! We will separate them and hope that they all do not get sick!

[AliCat37]

Them being curled up together is a form of fighting. As they are naturally solitary animals, which only come together for breeding in the wild, when they are forced to live in close spaces with another they form dominance behaviors. They sit on each other because they are competing for the best resources in the cage, may that be the best warm spot, or the best hide. If they are always in the same spot, that makes me believe that they are bullying each other in the hopes of moving the weaker ones out of their territory. When I got my very first snakes, my roommate and I cohabbed, not knowing how dangerous it was. I thought that it was cute that Jasper and Elliot were always coiled up together, if I knew then what I do now, I would have realized that Elliot's constant following Jasper and twitching were fighting behaviors. Any time I placed Jasper back in the cage, Elliot would race over and start following him, flicking his tongue all over the body. I am lucky that I didn't end up with dead corns from this.

I did read that you are going to separate yours, which is fantastic! You will probably see a lot of over all improvement in them. I just felt that I should address your question since you asked.

[beautifullywild77]

We separated them all into their own tanks and after they were fed, 3 days later, we had found what looked like a pinky partially digested. We also have a 10 gallon, two 20 gallon long, 20 gallon high, and 55 gallon tanks. We had planned to move them into bigger tanks very soon.

Are you sure it wasnt a regurge? They can sometimes look like a partially digested pinkie because thats basiclly what they are.

This was a the first regurge that I ever found. It was from feeding a fuzzie that was slightly too big.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m272/ladymopar24/regure.jpg