RI Treatment (How-to)

[Dakafall]

So I decided to do my own little write up with pictures on how I decided to treat a couple of snakes with RIs

I started out by getting vicks vapor rub and eucalyptus tree oil ($5 at whole foods) and a couple cups water put into the microwave to boil.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Dakafall/IMAG0317.jpg

While I let my water start to boil I went and retrieved the 2 sick snakes and 2 snake bags to put them in for treatment (small individual tubs with holes drilled in them would also work, anything that allows air transfer while containing the snake) and also a larger tub to stage everything in.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Dakafall/IMAG0318.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Dakafall/IMAG0320.jpg

After the snakes were secured my water was also done in the microwave. I used about 2 cups of boiling water, 3-5 drips of eucalyptus oil, and half a teaspoon of vicks. I stirred all the ingredients together in the measuring cup, and if you're feeling at all stuffed up yourself at this point, take a wiff, and put it back into the microwave for 45 more seconds to get it boiling again.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Dakafall/IMAG0321.jpg

Next, being VERY VERY careful to not spill boiling water on the snakes, I placed the water/vicks/oil mixture into the larger tub with the snakes and placed the lid on for 5 minutes

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Dakafall/IMAG0322.jpg

I checked them at the 5 minute mark and put the water back into the microwave to boil to increase the steam factor and set it back in the tub for 5 more minutes. After those 5 minutes are up, you're done :)

While I was putting away the JCP, big girl decided she wanted a photo shoot so I had to oblige lol
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Dakafall/IMAG0323.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Dakafall/IMAG0326.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Dakafall/IMAG0324.jpg

I didn't have any sick corns other wise I would have used them for this writeup, but there's no doubt in my mind this wouldn't work on a corn as well.

[Christen]

You should never microwave water or any pure liquids for the matter. I can get so hot that it doesn't actually boil. Then when you disturb the liquid it will explode in your face. It happened to my Aunt and severely burnt her.

[P.Guttatus]

You should never microwave water or any pure liquids for the matter. I can get so hot that it doesn't actually boil. Then when you disturb the liquid it will explode in your face. It happened to my Aunt and severely burnt her.
Sorry to hear about your Aunt.
Water that has few impurities, like distilled and some bottled waters, can become super heated and boil explosively. Tap water usually has lots of impurities and is usually safe to boil via the microwave (I have been doing it for years). If you are really worried, you can put a wooden chopstick in the water, this gives the water a nucleation point to create bubbles and promote boiling when it reaches 212 degrees(@sea level) and prevent superheated water.

[Carinata]

I would be very cautious treating snakes with a human grade medication (over the counter or not). It's just not safe in my eyes.

[P.Guttatus]

Just wondering if anyone else other than Dakafall has used this kind of treatment for snake RI's. Been skulking around this site for a while, and this is the first post I've seen refer to this kind of treatment. Usually the recommendations are a vet trip, decrease humidity, keep tank clean, raise temperature, etc.

P.

[Christen]

Sorry to hear about your Aunt.
Water that has few impurities, like distilled and some bottled waters, can become super heated and boil explosively. Tap water usually has lots of impurities and is usually safe to boil via the microwave (I have been doing it for years). If you are really worried, you can put a wooden chopstick in the water, this gives the water a nucleation point to create bubbles and promote boiling when it reaches 212 degrees(@sea level) and prevent superheated water.

With my Aunt it was tap water and she actually did have a wooden spoon in the cup it was the wooden spoon that moved and caused the liquid to displace. I personally think that telling someone it is ok to do something even though we know there is a risk even if it is slight is a bad idea.

Just wondering if anyone else other than Dakafall has used this kind of treatment for snake RI's. Been skulking around this site for a while, and this is the first post I've seen refer to this kind of treatment. Usually the recommendations are a vet trip, decrease humidity, keep tank clean, raise temperature, etc.

P.

To be honest I have heard this from other people as well and they state that it works. I do have my reserved feelings about it as well because like Carinata said along with these products are made out of oils that we know can be harmful to our snakes. I personally will stick with going to the vet.

[Carinata]

As I said treating your snake with human medications is not smart. Take your snake to the vet, they'll prescribe Ceftazidime or Metronidazole. Keep the humidity down, the heat up. Stress the snake as little as possible.

[bitsy]

An RI is just that - a Respiratory Infection. To my mind, infections need antibiotics or at least vet monitoring. Snakes + boiling water alone sounds like a recipe for potential disaster. Never mind the use of human-safe treatments and oils which we're normally advised to avoid near our snakes.

I'm glad it's worked for some and that the method is there for others to try if they want to. Personally I wouldn't risk it with any of mine.

[Dakafall]

Well, after checking on them after work here, the JCPs is all cleared up and the Hog defiantly sounds a lot better, still noticing a few tiny bubbles in her mouth, but not near like what it was before treatment. Snake bytes actually uses a very similar method, but they use a zoomed fogger and a product called F10

[Carinata]

F10 and Vicks are much different. I'm would be willing to bet your snakes are not all cleared up. I would really suggest taking it to a vet...

[MysticExotics]

I have a nebulizer & F10. I have not had to use it yet, & I hope I don't have to, but I know people that successfully kill an RI when caught early, using this, decreasing humidity & bumping up the temps a couple degrees.

[Dakafall]

I'm working on getting a fogger, but I figured I'd use this method until I have my fogger and F10 in hand. Like I said, one snake is all cleared up already after only 1 treatment. And for the record, I did lower the humidity and increase the temps (not that the temps matter since the JCP just likes to lounge on log and watch all the activity and the hog is to busy exploring and prefers on top of her hide as opposed to actually in it lol

[Lennycorn]

I have a nebulizer & F10. I have not had to use it yet, & I hope I don't have to, but I know people that successfully kill an RI when caught early, using this, decreasing humidity & bumping up the temps a couple degrees.

Really!! What type of snakes.

[Dakafall]

F10 and Vicks are much different. I'm would be willing to bet your snakes are not all cleared up. I would really suggest taking it to a vet...

I'm aware that they are 2 different products. I am also aware of they symptoms were last night before treatment and how they are now. I'm using my judgement and experiences that other people have had to treat my animals how I feel will work. I'm not forcing you or anyone else to do this, I'm simply putting it out there for information to anyone willing to try based off the fact that there are success stories behind it and that I'm seeing a difference in how my snakes are already.

[Lennycorn]

I'm aware that they are 2 different products. I am also aware of they symptoms were last night before treatment and how they are now. I'm using my judgement and experiences that other people have had to treat my animals how I feel will work. I'm not forcing you or anyone else to do this, I'm simply putting it out there for information to anyone willing to try based off the fact that there are success stories behind it and that I'm seeing a difference in how my snakes are already.

I'm interested in the success stories. Is there anyway to link or point us to more information.

[Carinata]

I'm aware that they are 2 different products. I am also aware of they symptoms were last night before treatment and how they are now. I'm using my judgement and experiences that other people have had to treat my animals how I feel will work. I'm not forcing you or anyone else to do this, I'm simply putting it out there for information to anyone willing to try based off the fact that there are success stories behind it and that I'm seeing a difference in how my snakes are already.

I don't want to see someone new to the game just try this. That's the issue. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable using a human medication, for reptiles, especially one that's never been used for reptiles before. F10 and a fogger work very well. But again, F10 and Vicks are very different.

[Carinata]

By calling it "RI Treatment (How-to)" it sure sounds like you're telling people to do it.....

[Dakafall]

I'm interested in the success stories. Is there anyway to link or point us to more information.

I just googled "snake RI vicks" and found applicable links
Would copy/paste if I was on something other than my phone

[Lennycorn]

I just googled "snake RI vicks" and found applicable links
Would copy/paste if I was on something other than my phone

ahh... Google. Everyone here uses it!! I just forgot! Thanks.

And you keep records on this 'treatment'?

[MysticExotics]

Really!! What type of snakes.

I learned about it from a python forum, but I have heard pf people using it successfully in a variety of snakes.

[Carinata]

I found a lot of people saying it was too strong......

[Lennycorn]

I learned about it from a python forum, but I have heard pf people using it successfully in a variety of snakes.


Well thanks you. Do you mind PMing me with which forum that is.

I like to research this.

[Lennycorn]

I learned about it from a python forum, but I have heard pf people using it successfully in a variety of snakes.


Nevermind!! Found it!!

[Dakafall]

I found a lot of people saying it was too strong......

Starting to get the feeling you just like to argue. If its to strong, dial back how much of what you put in.

[Carinata]

Starting to get the feeling you just like to argue. If its to strong, dial back how much of what you put in.

My issue, is where you call it a "how to". We know certain oils injure reptiles lung(s). I just think that it's best to go to the vet, and get vet treatment.......

[Nanci]

I'd feel better, myself, about this treatment if it was recommended by a vet, or had a history of successful use among breeders. The F10 treatment is widely documented, at least.

[Carinata]

That's my issue as well........ F10 is proven.....

[Lennycorn]

I'd feel better, myself, about this treatment if it was recommended by a vet, or had a history of successful use among breeders. The F10 treatment is widely documented, at least.

Google it! Snake RI vicks

[Carinata]

To add to that Nanci, an RI isn't going to kill a snake over night. It would be much safer to buy a vaporizer and F10. Instead of boiling water and some human meds and putting it next to your snakes. Just seems reckless to me....

[P.Guttatus]

Did what Lennycorn said and Googled it. Seems like a technique used with some regularity to treat the beginning stages of an RI.

[Nanci]

All right, I Googled it. I see there is some anecdotal history of use by forum-users, whoever they are. If it was _my_ snake, though, I still would not be comfortable unless that course of treatment was recommended by my reptile vet.

[Carinata]

I did google it. I find it to be a reckless treatment when you can easily treat an RI with F10 or any other medicine, as prescribed by a herp vet.....

[Lennycorn]

All right, I Googled it. I see there is some anecdotal history of use by forum-users, whoever they are. If it was _my_ snake, though, I still would not be comfortable unless that course of treatment was recommended by my reptile vet.


Yes, I saw that too but I'm not done reading up on all of it.
Had to watch TV and do real life things like pick up the Kids.

I don't want to be to quick to judge. It happens here!

[P.Guttatus]

What did you watch? LOL I'm catching up on episodes of N.C.I.S.

[Lennycorn]

What did you watch? LOL I'm catching up on episodes of N.C.I.S.


Survivor and flipping back and forth on hockey.

[Carinata]

Here's my thing. A reptile vet is easily accessible, F10 is even easier to get. The boiling water, human grade medicines, etc. It's all reckless! You bought the animals, take responsibility and get them to a vet. Who knows, the Vicks may cause lung damage down the road. Snakes only have one lung not two. Well one functioning lung. Extreme caution should be taken when dealing with something like that. I would prefer to pay the vet bill, than make some ghetto half-science mixture some forum people suggested and put it into practice.

[beautifullywild77]

Just going to say David, a reptile vet isn't always within accessibility for everyone. I have no idea what F10 is or even where to begin to get it. I have never dealt with an RI before but I have read many forums that people treat the RI themselves and never go to the vet unless it gets worse not better. I have read where a lot of people use this method. Is it the best route? I don't know but it is working for the OP. It is the same method anyone that is using google will fine. The best route is taking them to the vet to get check out. No one is arguing that point toots.

I don't think it is fair to attack the method such as you are doing. Really? ghetto half science? It seems you are also attacking the OP. You might not agree with the method which you have stated several times in this thread. You have given the risks in using this method. But don't start attacking just because they don't agree with you. There really isn't any more point

[MysticExotics]

To add onto what Stehpanie said, My Vet (who is an Exotic Vet) is wonderful, however she is very conservative. There are treatments that have proven to be effective, but she leans towards the cautious side, & she would likely advise against the use of F10.
However, someone whom I trust just as much as any good Exotic Vet, is who I heard about F10 from, & I feel confident in following her recommendations, even though my Vet would advise against it.

I'm sure F10 was considered "reckless" in the beginning.
I'm not saying I back this Eucalyptus/Vicks treatment, just saying I keep an open mind about this stuff. If it has been successful with a number of people, then there's a chance it could be/become an acceptable treatment.
Some essential oils are definitely harmful, even ones deemed "safe" to use around pets. You have to be careful about the quality of oils, as some are not as "pure".

[Carinata]

Here’s my issue, as I have stated many times. Someone who has had snakes less than a year, is telling people how to treat their snake with boiling water, and human medication. I’m weird…… I react so strongly because I see too many new people to the hobby try and do this instead of go to the vet. I’ve been doing this 10 years. I know how to dose fenbendazole, metronidazole, etc and keep them at my house. I still call my vet before I use anything. I’ve treated RIs that were in the beginning stages without any meds. If you have to resort to meds, you need to see a vet. As I said, ghetto half-science, that’s exactly what that was. It’s not the nicest term, but it’s what it was. I mean, you’re putting the snakes in bags and boiling a cup of water and putting it next to them. What if one of those snakes move in that bag and tips that thing of water? I’ve seen tons of snakes move a bag. I mean it’s such an unsafe method, and you’re telling people to do it (hence the how-to). I mean so much can go wrong with that method, it’s shocking to me more people aren’t upset. I mean you’re putting the snakes in close contact, as well, which opens up a whole new can of worms. To me, it seems reckless, and quite unsafe.

[Outcast]

Change is always fought by those who want things to stay the same.

If it works, it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. Sounds to me like there are more people who have used this method, that say it works, than those who have used it and say it doesn't.

[diamondlil]

I have to say, if I resorted to trying the vapours, there's no way on earth I'd risk my snakes getting scalded being in a bag next to a cup of boiling liquid

[P.Guttatus]

Change is always fought by those who want things to stay the same.

If it works, it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. Sounds to me like there are more people who have used this method, that say it works, than those who have used it and say it doesn't.

My research on the subject has come to the same conclusion. I'd love to hear Lennycorns findings on the topic.

[Carinata]

Change is always fought by those who want things to stay the same.

If it works, it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. Sounds to me like there are more people who have used this method, that say it works, than those who have used it and say it doesn't.

I don't want things to stay the same. That's why I donated a $200 gift card to the Kill Crypto auction. I just want to see it recommended by a vet, before someone who's kept snakes, for less than a year is making a "how-to" sheet on it. Do we know what the long term effects will be on the snakes lung? Much like Cedar chips, it's long term exposure that damages their lungs.

[Nanci]

I mean, you’re putting the snakes in bags and boiling a cup of water and putting it next to them. What if one of those snakes move in that bag and tips that thing of water? I’ve seen tons of snakes move a bag.

I mean you’re putting the snakes in close contact, as well, which opens up a whole new can of worms. To me, it seems reckless, and quite unsafe.

Both of these things occurred to me as well. If I'd brought it up rather than David, would you be jumping all over me?

[Carinata]

I have to say, if I resorted to trying the vapours, there's no way on earth I'd risk my snakes getting scalded being in a bag next to a cup of boiling liquid

That's my other issue! It's so risky, that it's just plain reckless. Especially with big snakes.

[P.Guttatus]

I have to say, if I resorted to trying the vapours, there's no way on earth I'd risk my snakes getting scalded being in a bag next to a cup of boiling liquid

The bag and open cup does look a bit worrisome, but you could pump the vapors into a separate container co2 chamber style. Seems like a technique that can easily tweeked to be safer.
Not that I'm advocating this idea over going to a vet.

[Outcast]

It has been my experience that even some "reptile" vet's, like stated earlier, go with a much more conservative view.

Also, Since reptiles are not as well studied as other animals (had a long conversation about this with a Biologist at my school) I think that if someone is willing to try something new, and keep a good record of it, then it is worth a try.

Isn't Oren doing something that many people think is crazy with trying DE to get the Crypto out of a couple of his snakes systems?

Also, David, If I started a fund to focus on getting rid of RI in such a way that it would save you a trip to the vet, and a lot of money in the long run. Would you donate to that as well? It is my understanding that snakes get RI more than Crypto.

While I agree that taking the snakes to the vet would have been the best idea. The OP decided to try something else first, and it seems to be working for now. I believe that with more observation we will see whether or not it has cured the RI or just hidden it.

P. I think that setting it up in such a way with a small fan going from one tub with the mixture, pumping it into the tube with the snakes, would be a safer delivery system.

[diamondlil]

Both of these things occurred to me as well. If I'd brought it up rather than David, would you be jumping all over me?
That's exactly what I was thinking. Cedar kills insects, but I wouldn't put a snake with mites in a tub full of cedar chips, no matter how many anectdotal treatment stories I saw.
There are good, researched, available treatments for RI in snakes, I'd use those personally rather than take a risk on lung damage from menthol vapours or scalding from boiling liquids

[Carinata]

It has been my experience that even some "reptile" vet's, like stated earlier, go with a much more conservative view.

Also, Since reptiles are not as well studied as other animals (had a long conversation about this with a Biologist at my school) I think that if someone is willing to try something new, and keep a good record of it, then it is worth a try.

Isn't Oren doing something that many people think is crazy with trying DE to get the Crypto out of a couple of his snakes systems?

Also, David, If I started a fund to focus on getting rid of RI in such a way that it would save you a trip to the vet, and a lot of money in the long run. Would you donate to that as well? It is my understanding that snakes get RI more than Crypto.

While I agree that taking the snakes to the vet would have been the best idea. The OP decided to try something else first, and it seems to be working for now. I believe that with more observation we will see whether or not it has cured the RI or just hidden it.

P. I think that setting it up in such a way with a small fan going from one tub with the mixture, pumping it into the tube with the snakes, would be a safer delivery system.

Aaron, there's nothing wrong with trying something new, I've done it! I dust all my roaches with Nutri-bac in addition to Calcium D3. The issue with this is,

*They're giving instructions, that anyone can access
*They've only been keeping snakes for less than a year
*There is a huge risk of physical damage to the snake
*The SICK snakes are in close contact.
I could go on and on. This is not the way anyone should test a new treatment! It's dangerous.

The reason I donate to the Kill Crypto auction is because it's being run by vets and breeders, Crypto is as of yet, incurable and geckos can get it and it can wreck your collection.

[Nanci]

The difference between Vicks for RI and DE for crypto is: crypto is (in the acute stage, with regurging and anorexia) eventually fatal, with no cure, to date. Experimental treatment is not going to delay a proven cure. Vicks may be a "medication," but it is not an antibiotic drug, and the snake _could_ be undergoing a proven, conventional treatment by a licensed medical professional and be on the road to recovery instead of being treated with a home remedy you read about on the Internet.

[Carinata]

Thank you, Nanci and Janine! Crypto is fatal so it's worth a shot to try something new, RIs are treatable and right now that snake could be on the road to recovery instead of having some reckless bootleg interwebz treatment.

[Nanci]

reckless bootleg interwebz treatment.

Possibly, less inflammatory adjectives such as questionable, unproven, uncertain, unconfirmed, uncorroborated, unsupported etc. might be better-received.

[Carinata]

I could go a little easier I guess....

[Outcast]

I am going to wait to see what Lenny finds in his searches, before I condemn the OP for trying something new. Things are too busy for me to look up all the possibilities myself.

Also, I doubt that dusting roaches with calcium/D3 and Nutribac is really all that new. In fact, I am pretty sure that one of the local Pet Stores around here does it. In my opinion it seems like a pretty good practice, keep those lizards healthy.

[starsevol]

I am going to wait to see what Lenny finds in his searches, before I condemn the OP for trying something new. Things are too busy for me to look up all the possibilities myself.

Also, I doubt that dusting roaches with calcium/D3 and Nutribac is really all that new. In fact, I am pretty sure that one of the local Pet Stores around here does it. In my opinion it seems like a pretty good practice, keep those lizards healthy.

But Aaron, He's been doing this for 10 years..a whole decade...like since he was.....8 years old!!
18 years ago I got a blue tongue skink for my birthday and it was widely reccomended back then that I dust his food with calcium powder so I don't think dusting roaches can be all that new either...

[Nanci]

But Aaron, He's been doing this for 10 years..a whole decade...like since he was.....8 years old!!


Please stop being antagonistic.

[starsevol]

OK Nanci, but he has said it himself that he was doing this since he was 8.
I am pretty sure he did anyway.

[Nanci]

OK Nanci, but he has said it himself that he was doing this since he was 8.
I am pretty sure he did anyway.

And your point is??

[starsevol]

And your point is??

None really I guess. I am too easily irked, sorry for the disruption.

I would like to know the results of this though.


Edited to add.....
To David, I am sorry about my earlier statement. I know you are passionate and I know you want to do this as a career. So, here is a little advice take it or leave it. Instead of saying something like "I've been doing this for 10 years", which sounds a little arrogant and someone who knows your true age would question it ....you can say something like..I have loved reptiles as long as I can remember. I got my first snake when I was 8 and knew back then I was hooked for life. I don't know everything, but learn more every day, and I would love to know how this treatment turns out. However, these points concern me, and this is why....and then go on from there.
I know you know alot for your age, more than some of us old farts I am sure. But like it or not, you ARE really young. I know that getting taken seriously is hard when you are that young, but coming off as someone fresh and eager to learn new things everyday while not knowing everything there is to know would probably help your cause better than your current approach.

[Carinata]

18 years ago they suggested dusting roaches with a pro-biotic? Hmmm never heard that one.

[starsevol]

18 years ago they suggested dusting roaches with a pro-biotic? Hmmm never heard that one.

Honestly, I don't know because Toby did not eat roaches. But there were various calcium products on the market back then that were reccommended to sprinkle on his food. I used Nutrical.
So there is a good chance that supplements were used for other lizards as well.

[Carinata]

I've talked to a lot of old school lizard guys. Pro-biotics were never tried. I use Calcium D3 and nurti-bac.

I accept your apology, and understand where you're coming from, but if anyone looks me up on Fauna, or looks into my work with AFTs, you'd never know I was 18. Nearly every customer I talk to, and tell I'm 18, tell me that I don't sound like it. If you didn't know my age, how old would you assume I was? Age is merely a number. My age and my experience are 2 different things. I've been doing this for 10 years, but in those 10 years I've had the privledge to meet a lot of people, and learn a lot. This is my thing, this is my career, and this is my hobby. I work with reptiles every day, at work, and at home. I wouldn't change it for anything. I would appriciate if people took that into consideration when criticizing me. Beth, I may irk you when I post, but I'm not ashamed to say I've been doing this for 10 years. I'm proud of that fact and will flaunt it. I'm proud I stuck with it, and didn't give up. I guess, I do come off rude sometimes, that's not my intention.

[bitsy]

I kept lizards in the 1980s and their crickets were always dusted with something called "Herptovit", if I remember the name correctly. That was given to me as a basic husbandry requirement when I bought them.

I bought it in loose bags from my local reptile tourist attraction, so I never knew what exactly was in it.

[Carinata]

Yes, Calcium D3 dusting has always been staple. Adding a pro-biotic hasn't.

[starsevol]

I've talked to a lot of old school lizard guys. Pro-biotics were never tried. I use Calcium D3 and nurti-bac.

I accept your apology, and understand where you're coming from, but if anyone looks me up on Fauna, or looks into my work with AFTs, you'd never know I was 18. Nearly every customer I talk to, and tell I'm 18, tell me that I don't sound like it. If you didn't know my age, how old would you assume I was? Age is merely a number. My age and my experience are 2 different things. I've been doing this for 10 years, but in those 10 years I've had the privledge to meet a lot of people, and learn a lot. This is my thing, this is my career, and this is my hobby. I work with reptiles every day, at work, and at home. I wouldn't change it for anything. I would appriciate if people took that into consideration when criticizing me. Beth, I may irk you when I post, but I'm not ashamed to say I've been doing this for 10 years. I'm proud of that fact and will flaunt it. I'm proud I stuck with it, and didn't give up. I guess, I do come off rude sometimes, that's not my intention.

But, how old are you now? Either 18 or 19 right? So, when you say you've been "doing this" for 10 years, you can understand how people who do know how old you are are feeling, right?
I mean, what you do now and what you did 10 years ago are not the same thing at all, how can they be?
No matter how passionate you were at 8, no matter what a good little keeper you were, how can that be seen at the same level to what you are doing now?
Personally I think you "began" what you are doing now when you went against everyone's advice and got Jasmine (that's her name, right) and proved all of us wrong when you proved a great keeper to her.
I also think we need more pictures of her.....remember how you loved her?

Oh yeah and edited to add, doing something you love for however length of time is a wonderful thing, but not neccessarily something to be proud of. Learning as you go, and doing whatever is in the animal's best interests are REALLY something to be proud of. Just because someone does something for a long long time, does not mean they are doing it well. Right?

[Carinata]

You're right Beth. It's a lot different. I think when I got Jasmine stuff did change quite a bit, and I changed a lot of things. I want to do this as a career, because I love it. I love every second of the breeding, and the babies hatching, to nailing a big sale. I enjoy all of it. I still love my small snake collection, I just don't have time to take pictures! Jasmines around 7 foot now. I made a ton of mistakes when I started and I still make mistakes. My collection has reached the size where I don't have time to go through and handle everything, but everything is well cared for. In all honesty, my job has taught me so much and given me such a better understanding of the hobby and animal husbandry. I'm just glad I got the chance to be involved in the hobby. My parents are supportive but never have paid for my hobby. I was doing chores up until I was 15, and now my hobby essentially supports itself, and then some. I want this to be my career, and will not stop until I'm at that point.

[starsevol]

You're right Beth. It's a lot different. I think when I got Jasmine stuff did change quite a bit, and I changed a lot of things. I want to do this as a career, because I love it. I love every second of the breeding, and the babies hatching, to nailing a big sale. I enjoy all of it. I still love my small snake collection, I just don't have time to take pictures! Jasmines around 7 foot now. I made a ton of mistakes when I started and I still make mistakes. My collection has reached the size where I don't have time to go through and handle everything, but everything is well cared for. In all honesty, my job has taught me so much and given me such a better understanding of the hobby and animal husbandry. I'm just glad I got the chance to be involved in the hobby. My parents are supportive but never have paid for my hobby. I was doing chores up until I was 15, and now my hobby essentially supports itself, and then some. I want this to be my career, and will not stop until I'm at that point.

I got my first reptile (Toby) when I was 32 and my first snake when I was 33. I have been in the hobby for 18 years. Sounds pretty impressive, right? Not so much as you being able to say you got your first snake at 8!! You having a pet snake at 8 and learning how to keep it properly says alot more than that you have been "doing this" for 10 years, wouldn't you say?

[Carinata]

Beth, you're right. I tend to sound like I'm bragging, but it's that I'm so pround of my accomplishments, I say stuff without thinking. I'll make an honest effort to sound more humble.

[starsevol]

Beth, you're right. I tend to sound like I'm bragging, but it's that I'm so pround of my accomplishments, I say stuff without thinking. I'll make an honest effort to sound more humble.

Honey, if you accomplish one tenth of what you plan to, in a few years you can brag your bum off and no one will care.
But while the years are not on your side just yet, humble never hurts!

[Carinata]

Yeah, I guess that's true LOL! I have a habit of getting ahead of myself! No wonder my mom always told me "David! Be humble!"

[starsevol]

Yeah, I guess that's true LOL! I have a habit of getting ahead of myself! No wonder my mom always told me "David! Be humble!"

Mother knows best ya know!

[Fishin Pole]

I thought this thread was about treatment of RI?...........what hapened the last 3 pages?

[starsevol]

Things around here have a tendency to morph into other things....

[BloodyBaroness]

Things around here have a tendency to morph into other things....

:laugh01:

Understatement of the century.

[Outcast]

Yeah, I guess that's true LOL! I have a habit of getting ahead of myself! No wonder my mom always told me "David! Be humble!"
:laugh01:
My mom still tells me that, from time to time...

[Dakafall]

Bringing the back to topic lol, in hindsight the boiling water in just the cup might not have been the best option, but I was sitting there watching to make sure they didn't move their bags. I did a second treatment on the hog last night and put the water into a small sterilite tub with holes melted into it and the snake into a seperate tub (all within a big tub) to eliminate the risk of the snake coming into contact with the water. After the initial treatment, the JCP hasn't shown any signs of the infection coming back and just upon a quick look this morning before work, the Hog's also seems to have cleared up, but as with all things, time will tell. Thank you for everyone's input on this thread, I will keep posting results as I find them, and I'm also very curious to what Lenny and the others researching this on their own find out.

[SnakeAround]

As far as I know Vicks and such are reducers of symptoms, not cures. So, in early stages of RI, it might help a snake breath better and to feel better, but it won't cure the RI because it is not an antibitioc. And if it is a virus there is no cure anyway, the snake can only fight that itselves. That said, we indeed do not know if eucalyptus, menthol and such are harmful to a snakes lungs. I doubt if a couple of 10 minute treatments in their lives will actually be able to harm them at all, but is the risk worth the results? Postponing going to a vet and stressing an already drowsy snake IMO has a higher chance of harming the snake than helping it. Maybe in a few days the infection kicks in again... while it could have been cured... Of course I do hope you prove us wrong!

[Carinata]

Again, I will stick with my original opinion, that it is a reckless (don't know how to better describe it) treatment that I think may cause damage to the snake. You're a relative newbie, and I really suggest you take the snake to the vet ASAP. You may be helping the snake breath, but there are bacteria that could (I should say are), living inside the snake still, that are going to cause issues. Why risk your snakes lives and not go to the vet. I mean every time I've gone for an RI it's around $150. That's not a whole lot.....

[SnakeAround]

Wow, that is so much money for an RI consult and meds...

[Dakafall]

David,
In case you haven't been reading, I'm not the first one to have tried this method and it wasn't my original idea, I just thought it be interesting information to pass along to members on a community that I am apart of. As far as calling it a "how-to" I still agree that's what it is, it's an informational thread with pictures and details on what I did in a chronological order. Also, you've made your point how you disagree with my methods in the last however many posts you made, so at this point, I've just decided you're intentionally being a troll, trying to start an argument and are therefore no long even worth my time to respond to. Have a nice day.

[Carinata]

Yup. I'm trolling. I'm suggesting a reptile vet, instead of a dangerous, un-researched treatment. I'm weird. I'm speaking out against, a home remedy some people posted on a forum, that I'm assuming aren't vets. I'm trolling because I don't want people who have no experience with snakes to get their first snake, determine it has an RI, find your thread, and throw it in a pillow case next to a boiling stew of human treatments. I guess I don't even care about the animals at all.........

[crotalis40741]

I think it is time to slow down on this. Stop the arguing!

[Lennycorn]

David,
In case you haven't been reading, I'm not the first one to have tried this method and it wasn't my original idea, I just thought it be interesting information to pass along to members on a community that I am apart of. As far as calling it a "how-to" I still agree that's what it is, it's an informational thread with pictures and details on what I did in a chronological order. Also, you've made your point how you disagree with my methods in the last however many posts you made, so at this point, I've just decided you're intentionally being a troll, trying to start an argument and are therefore no long even worth my time to respond to. Have a nice day.

And thank you for doing so.

[Christen]

Awww Bobs first blue comment. I think I am going to cry.

[beautifullywild77]

Me too! sniff sniff!

[starsevol]

Whoa, Bob's wearing his mod stompin' boots!!!


So happy right now!!

[Wyldrose]

RI treatment and consult at my Vet(not my regular Vet and also the "expensive Vet) came to $105 with taxes. Well worth it in my opinion, FlameStrike is back to 100%. I have heard of people taking the snakes into the shower with the steam to help clear things up.
There are lots of "home" remidies that work and don't work.

[ceduke]

I'm late to this party I guess, but I'm just chiming in that when I needed RI treatment for my little hognose my vet bill came to under $100...and I go to a pretty pricey vet for my herps. Excellent price for the peace of mind.

[Carinata]

That's my point. You have a lot of risk and very little reward with your treatment. Please take it to a vet.

[Outcast]

David, these are all the quotes in which I found you stating that you suggest taking the snake to a vet, and how dangerous you feel the treatment is. Your point has been made, as you can see, many times over. You can stand back and not keep beating a dead horse. The op will choose to do what they choose to do.

The only reason that I keep coming to this thread is to see if there is any progress on the snakes. But instead, I just keep seeing you repeat yourself, over and over and over again. We understand your issue with this treatment, your issue is the same as many people in this thread. I agree that taking the snakes to a vet and getting an antibiotic would be the best thing to do. But please, allow this thread to continue without the continuing of calling names and throwing your opinion around about this treatment... Not that your opinion isn't any better or worse than anyone elses.... Its just that you have stated it multiple times, and it is making reading this thread very annoying for those of us who want to see the outcome.

Here's my thing. A reptile vet is easily accessible, F10 is even easier to get. The boiling water, human grade medicines, etc. It's all reckless! You bought the animals, take responsibility and get them to a vet. Who knows, the Vicks may cause lung damage down the road. Snakes only have one lung not two. Well one functioning lung. Extreme caution should be taken when dealing with something like that. I would prefer to pay the vet bill, than make some ghetto half-science mixture some forum people suggested and put it into practice.

Here’s my issue, as I have stated many times. Someone who has had snakes less than a year, is telling people how to treat their snake with boiling water, and human medication. I’m weird…… I react so strongly because I see too many new people to the hobby try and do this instead of go to the vet. I’ve been doing this 10 years. I know how to dose fenbendazole, metronidazole, etc and keep them at my house. I still call my vet before I use anything. I’ve treated RIs that were in the beginning stages without any meds. If you have to resort to meds, you need to see a vet. As I said, ghetto half-science, that’s exactly what that was. It’s not the nicest term, but it’s what it was. I mean, you’re putting the snakes in bags and boiling a cup of water and putting it next to them. What if one of those snakes move in that bag and tips that thing of water? I’ve seen tons of snakes move a bag. I mean it’s such an unsafe method, and you’re telling people to do it (hence the how-to). I mean so much can go wrong with that method, it’s shocking to me more people aren’t upset. I mean you’re putting the snakes in close contact, as well, which opens up a whole new can of worms. To me, it seems reckless, and quite unsafe.

That's my other issue! It's so risky, that it's just plain reckless. Especially with big snakes.

Thank you, Nanci and Janine! Crypto is fatal so it's worth a shot to try something new, RIs are treatable and right now that snake could be on the road to recovery instead of having some reckless bootleg interwebz treatment.

Again, I will stick with my original opinion, that it is a reckless (don't know how to better describe it) treatment that I think may cause damage to the snake. You're a relative newbie, and I really suggest you take the snake to the vet ASAP. You may be helping the snake breath, but there are bacteria that could (I should say are), living inside the snake still, that are going to cause issues. Why risk your snakes lives and not go to the vet. I mean every time I've gone for an RI it's around $150. That's not a whole lot.....

Yup. I'm trolling. I'm suggesting a reptile vet, instead of a dangerous, un-researched treatment. I'm weird. I'm speaking out against, a home remedy some people posted on a forum, that I'm assuming aren't vets. I'm trolling because I don't want people who have no experience with snakes to get their first snake, determine it has an RI, find your thread, and throw it in a pillow case next to a boiling stew of human treatments. I guess I don't even care about the animals at all.........

[Carinata]

So when someone like Beth for example posts her opinion 100 times in a thread on co-habbing, it's not annoying. This is a forum, where you're supposed to speak your opinions, values, and sometimes just plain rant. That's the point of a forum.

In the last 2 years, I've seen so much ignorance and so many people telling me "Oh yeah, I saw in on a forum.". It's crazy to me, how much bad information floats around the herp community. I saw this thread as a recipt for disaster. Which is why I spoke my opinion so strongly. If that annoys people, I'm very sorry, but that's how I roll. I'm an opinionated individual, and I would hope on a forum I was allowed to express that. If you don't agree with my opinion, that's fine, but please don't tell me I cannot speak my opinion.

[Tara80]

No one is saying that you cannot speak your opinion. Aaron was nicely trying to point out that you've repeated the same thing over and over again, and we get the hint. We already know you find the practice 'reckless'. How many times do you need to say it over and over and over and over and over.......
WE KNOW HOW YOU FEEL. Repeating it isn't going to do ANYTHING. We saw it, we moved on, we know.

[Carinata]

- understand that, but if that's the case, why does no one say anything to other members when they repeat their opinion over and over and over again in threads on other issues?

[Tara80]

I have yet to observe anyone else here repeating the same sentence over and over in a similar manner. People may bring up other points as to why they don't agree, but then they are adding value into the discussion/argument.
When other people become inflammatory, they DO get chastised by the moderators. Just ask Beth. ;)

[dave partington]

In the last 2 years, I've seen so much ignorance and so many people telling me "Oh yeah, I saw in on a forum.". It's crazy to me, how much bad information floats around the herp community.

click ----> Do you mean like this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMM_whdYNUI) <---click

[Carinata]

Like that but worse....

[Outcast]

David, Last time I checked, Beth does seem to get in trouble quite a bit for repeating what she says, over and over and over again in the cohab threads... And yes, it does get annoying from time to time. I am sure that she has many more slaps from Mod's than you do about it also.

I understand that you are passionate about trying to get the correct information out there and I have nothing but respect for that. But, there is only so many times you can repeat yourself before you start sounding like a 14 year old kid with a stick up your butt (you are not the only one that this applies to).

Honestly, Tara said it better than I can, I seem to just cause more argument when I talk...

[Fishin Pole]

I keep coming back to see the progression of the RI treatment and thread for the last 4 pages has been nothing but that...........Let people form their own opinions about something and stop trying to shove your opinion down everyone's throat.(Carinata)......Look back over history and think about how something that was not correct for years, is now the norm.......Ice cream led to polio, the world was flat....etc..... all examples of how SOME people's thinking was so wrong for such a long time..........Without trial and error, some things will never be proven to work or not work.........If this does prove to be a vet approved method, are you still gonna be dead set against it?.......I agree there are safer ways to try the method, but in theory it seems like it has some validity......

[Christen]

click ----> Do you mean like this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMM_whdYNUI) <---click

I love that video. It cracks me up every time.

[crotalis40741]

I keep coming back to see the progression of the RI treatment and thread for the last 4 pages has been nothing but that...........Let people form their own opinions about something and stop trying to shove your opinion down everyone's throat.(Carinata)......Look back over history and think about how something that was not correct for years, is now the norm.......Ice cream led to polio, the world was flat....etc..... all examples of how SOME people's thinking was so wrong for such a long time..........Without trial and error, some things will never be proven to work or not work.........If this does prove to be a vet approved method, are you still gonna be dead set against it?.......I agree there are safer ways to try the method, but in theory it seems like it has some validity......


You see opinions are the basis of a forums as well as pure knowledge, But singling out and personal attack will not be. I hope this is clear?

[Carinata]

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I'm simply suggesting that it's unsafe. I mean can anyone say going to a vet is a bad thing?

[beautifullywild77]

Honestly, I don't think anyone including the OP has said going to the vet is a bad thing!

[Carinata]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying, how can you say this is better over vet treatment. Same principal with co-habbing. How can you say it's better over singly housing.

[beautifullywild77]

I don't think the OP has said this is a better treatment than going to the vet either :shrugs:

[Carinata]

The OP never even acknowledged going to a vet..... I may be wrong though.

[beautifullywild77]

Perhaps the OP should of titled the thread "My experience with a home remedy for treating an RI".

[Nanci]

When other people become inflammatory, they DO get chastised by the moderators. Just ask Beth. ;)

Beth's like the expert on that!!

[starsevol]

Beth's like the expert on that!!

But she is a wicked slow learner! It's a wonder Nanci and Susan let me live!!! :)

[snakewispera snr]

Back to the RI debate...
This came up on another forum and a zoologist came on saying why the oils in Eucalyptus/Vic/Menthol were extremely dangerous to a snake....
If I could be bothered to look for it, I would link it... If I stumble upon it later, I will link it..
To the OP.... Vic and boiling water is used over here a lot.. I could link you to a dozen threads about it's success/failure.. But never success after one treatment......
Was you snake going into blue by any chance.......

[Dakafall]

Been super busy at work and haven't been able to respond (also email wasn't making me aware of any new post). Both snakes seem to have cleared up, neither acting lethargic or losing muscle but I have made an appointment with a vet for next week just to confirm this (also to make certain people who think I'm claiming a vet is unnecessary happy). While there I will ask her professional opinion on this treatment and see what she says (and if she can get me some F10 for cheaper lol). Neither snake is currently in blue, but I have made that mistake in the past on one of my snows lol.