any way to avoid eggs?

I don't think there is, but I don't know everything, so I thought I'd just ask. Is there any way to avoid that a female lays a clutch of infertile eggs?
To make the situation clear: it started with my MBK (I know, not a corn, but I'm coming to that). Last year after a few successfull matings, she became gravid. She layed two infertile eggs, and then stopped laying.
The vet injected her (with oxytocine? is that it? I forgot), but that didn't work and after a while he had to cut her open to get the rest. One egg ruptured inside her so he cleaned her insides and took out another three fertile eggs (that went bad afterwords unfortunately). She healed well after that I'm happy to say.
This year she didn't mate, but formed eggs anyway. And yes, one was layed (a really long one, I think it was two fused together) and she stopped. The vet had to cut her open again. She came through it nicely again, and is healing now.

Then my female corn, who had bred for me four years now without problems, layed a clutch of infertile eggs (didn't breed her this year) and yes, then stopped laying, I can feel three more inside her, one quite high up. So tomorrow it's off to the vet again, hoping he won't have to cut her open also!

So if anybody knows any way I can prevent unbred females from forming eggs, please tell me! They're getting themselves in a lot of trouble. The costs are rising (be that a less important aspect for me but still) and I don't want to lose them if a surgery goes wrong.

I've never heard of such a way, apart from keeping them away from males...

To try and avoid unwanted eggs you should not allow any mating, duh. Try and remove the animals from the vicinity or other breeding stock (I don't think this is easy based on how far scents travel). Feed the animal less than you would a breeder. This seems to help trick the female into thinking that times are hard and she should save her breeding potential for better times. Neutering the animal. Although I've never heard of this being done to snakes, it is more commonly done to female Veileds and Iguanas.
Surgery is not always the best option for stalled laying. Some females hold onto eggs for a whole season and pass them throughout the year or after a big meal, etc.. As long as an egg isn't stuck I've allowed females to pass eggs in their own time. Stuck eggs can be aspirated within a 24 to 36 hour period around initial laying. I've also had a vet surgically remove the eggs. I've had better success with the wait and see method.
Best of luck.

Terri

Thanks for your answer!
Indeed the not mating I had already come up with
Keeping them apart from others might indeed be difficult, but I'll think about it. The best I can maybe do is put them on a different floor in the house... I can try.
Feeding less I can do, I keep an eye on the weight, so I'll be sure I don't feed her too little.
I did ask the vet about neutering and indeed, it doesn't seem to be easy. He did say he would have better equipment next year, and he is planning to try it out if and when he has a death amongst the snakes, to see irl how it could be done best. So maybe next year.
I must say I'm not really comfortable with just leaving the eggs in. I cannot see inside and know what's happening. For instance last year apparantly one of the eggs had ruptured inside her, and everything was stuck together in her insides. Had I waited, she would be dead by now.

Thanks for your answer, and any more tips or comments are always welcome!

My vet did once tell me that he used the same injected treatment for larger boids, as he uses for pet birds which continually lay infertile eggs despite not being bred. He said he'd be willing to try the same approach with a Corn, with the dose adjusted by body weight. Might be worth considering if your vet is willing to do some research?

But apart from that, I've never come up with anything. I have an elderly Corn which insists on producing a clutch of infertile eggs every year. She hasn't been near a male in years. Females which are the only snakes in the house can still do this as well, so it's not linked to the proximity of males stimulating the process. I think there's an element of genetics about it - if the snake's mother did it, there's a greater possibility that she will as well.

I might run that by him thanks. Especially when she does it again next year and the neutering doesn't go through. thanks!
I don't know about their genetics unfortunately, as they are both apparant escapees from somewhere that ended up with me.
The corn is a shame though. All those years of breeding and never a problem. One clutch of infertile eggs and she's stuck. :-(
The vet gave her an injection today, he said to come back if the eggs weren't there by the weekend. Then he'll take an x-ray to try and see if there's something visibly wrong.

I wouldn't suggest this to someone who has never seen it in person, but I palpate out "stuck" eggs with some regularity. It takes some practice to get the "feel" down, kind of like popping hatchlings. I had a corn and a hog get an egg stuck this year, after about 3 days I take matters into my own hands. I suspect this is an issue with muscle tone, but that's speculation on my part. I wouldn't personally have eggs surgically removed, it is just so much less invasive to do it manually. I wish you luck with her.

I heard of that before, but like you say, it might not be a good idea for me to try that, having never done or even seen it before. Also one of the eggs is stuck quite high up and I'm not sure you can get it that far down by palpating.
It might be that my vet is fast with deciding to cut them open, but I must say I do trust him. He is an experienced reptile vet (also amphibia and fish), and when I was looking around for one, he came highly recommended by different sources. Also in my zoo he is well known and well spoken off (and be sure that if the keepers weren't happy with him, they would have said so elaborately )
If you say you wouldn't have eggs surgically removed, then what would you do in a case like my MBK last year where the egg was ruptured inside her and everything stuck to her insides? That might be an uncommon thing though, I don't know...

That's not one I've encountered (knowingly). If an egg is up high, I don't consider it stuck. It will usually pass in time, or at very least move downward. The stuck eggs I've dealt with are usually within an inch or two from the cloaca. It takes some practice, but you can get the feel of what an egg is vs. organs, etc. The problem comes when they harden inside, you can't aspirate them and squeezing is about the only option (outside of surgery). It isn't for the timid, but the snake will often die without it...

ouch... I guess I'm one of the timid then.
I would be too scared to damage the egg and/or cause other problems...

The egg is gone by the time you try the procedure. It's the female you are trying to save, fwiw.

That's what I meant. If I should damage the egg while it's still inside, that could lead to problems for my female...

Generally, they are tough and leathery when they are held past term. You couldn't burst them if you tried. The hard part is coaxing the egg out.

I guess then. But still, like you said, maybe best not for people who have never done or seen it before. Honestly, I'd rather rely on my vet than to try it, sorry.

No apology needed! Just saying it can be done, I bet there are some herp folks in your part of the country that could show you if it ever pops up again. And if you have enough girls for long enough, it will. Do you have a local herp society? There's more knowledge in our little herp club than the three local reptile vets combined. Feel fortunate to have a good reptile vet, they are few and far between sadly.

I was just talking with a friend about manually extracting "stuck" eggs in snakes. She compares it to removing eggs from a bird, and claims it is "easy!" She recommends manipulating the eggs from the side, not top and bottom, as comes more naturally...

elrojo said:

No apology needed! Just saying it can be done, I bet there are some herp folks in your part of the country that could show you if it ever pops up again. And if you have enough girls for long enough, it will. Do you have a local herp society? There's more knowledge in our little herp club than the three local reptile vets combined. Feel fortunate to have a good reptile vet, they are few and far between sadly.

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There is indeed a herp society here, I have been debating wether to become a member. Thing is, the few members I have met, I really didn't like. The sort of people that believe "if you don't do it my way, you're doing it wrong". And even when they are right about the subject, that kind of behaviour gets on my nerves and makes me stubborn (not the best reaction I know). Of course the rest of the members might just as well be a lot more reasonable...
Yes I'm indeed very happy with my vet. When I was looking around for one, two were recommended, but the other one is quite far away. This one is only half an hours drive away so that's very reasonable!

Nanci said:

I was just talking with a friend about manually extracting "stuck" eggs in snakes. She compares it to removing eggs from a bird, and claims it is "easy!" She recommends manipulating the eggs from the side, not top and bottom, as comes more naturally...

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Still sounds creepy to me . But I'll ask around about it, see what people have to say and wether they have done it themselves. Maybe someone can show me...

Nanci said:

I was just talking with a friend about manually extracting "stuck" eggs in snakes. She compares it to removing eggs from a bird, and claims it is "easy!" She recommends manipulating the eggs from the side, not top and bottom, as comes more naturally...

Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't think you could budge it by going from top to bottom. I do use my thumb on the bottom to keep it from going backward (it will try to). The thumb and forefinger of the other hand moves it toward the vent from the sides. I guess "easy" is a relative term, but not the first word I would use to describe it! Some come right out, others don't. Corns seem to be easier than hogs, but I'm saying that having done it a dozen+ times to corns and only had to twice on hognose. But both those did NOT want to come out! I also use KY to lube the cloaca before doing any of this. I wish I had a cam-corder, this is bound (no pun intended) to happen again.