UV lights?

[Lucille]

Do corn snakes need a UV lamp?
Just wondering, I have two Red earred sliders and once I added a UV lamp, I noticed a dramatic difference in their activity level.
I've been reading through some care sheets and I haven't come across anything saying that they need a UV lamp, but I thought that they need the sun to produce Vit D. Is it not as important in snakes as it is in turtles?
Thanks,
Lucille

[CornsnakeKeeper]

It is not needed. It's optional.
They are nocturnal animals.
They can get their vitamins by dipping their mice in vitamin powder supplements.

Hopefully someone can expand on this....

[pinatamonkey]

Most turtles and lizards need UV to be healthy - I think to synthesize vitamin D or something?

Snakes, however, do not require UV. It's not because they're nocturnal, they just don't need it to be healthy. I've heard it's because they eat whole animal diets? :confused:

Anyway, a UV light for a snake would just be a waste of money. Those things aren't cheap!

Oh - and if you choose to dip a mouse in vitamin supplement (most people don't), read this (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=1044) thread. Rich describes about halfway down what he does.

[DustinWaller]

I read in a book that they dont need all the things that lizards,turtles,etc need becouse they eat large numbers of large animals. Most turtles also need all the vegis and all that good stuff but so do mice in the wild so its like the whole diet is good for them,they can get their water from them also. But i think it is the same as in monitors i think they dont need sun or anything like that becoue of the same reason but im not really big up on monitors.

[kenalotia]

Just a note on what hte UV is for for other reptiles. The UVB provides vitamin D3, which is what lets them absorb the calcium in their diets.

I've got an iguana, so this is all very important for him. :-)

[Doctor Mike]

Corns have been observed to be *non-dependent* on full spectrum sunlight, UVA only or UVB only. But the fact that they don't absolutely need these light wavelengths for survival does not mean that they might not benefit from a little exposure.

Some lizards and turtles can't even survive without these wavelengths, developing the equivalent diseases of rickets [juvenile] or osteomalacia [adults] without the Vitamin D3 produced by such exposure. These animals don't get Vit D3 in their diet. Snakes have not been observed to develop these outright Vit D3 deficiency states without this light because of their consumption of whole mice.

However, mere survival of an animal is quite different from optimum health for that animal.

Here's what we know about the action of sunlight and its component wavelengths on amphibians and upwards through the phylogenetic tree, all the way to humans [if you consider humans to be at the top, LOL]:

[1] UVA light catalyzes the conversion of precursor chemicals in the skin, starting with 7-dehydrocholesterol which UVA makes into "previtamin D3", and then into Vit D3, the biologically active form of Vit D. Of course, if Vit D3 is in the diet in a whole organism like a mouse, deficiency without sunlight exposure is unlikely. [Doctors use prescription Vit D3 to treat certain metabolic and neoplastic diseases in humans when they are unable to make Vit D3 themselves.]

But. . .

[2] Visible light along with UVA and UVB inhibits the release of the hormone melatonin from the pineal gland. [Melatonin is sold over the counter as a sleep aid, and if you try it, get some low dose 2.5 mg sublingual tablets to start, as the normal swallowed form takes too long to work.] The varying length of daylight throughout the year is one of the factors which synchronizes animal reproductive behavior to the seasons, through this pineal gland and melatonin. Also, the dawn, day, dusk and night acting throughout a 24 hour period further synchronizes biorhythms, again through the pineal and melatonin.

[3] Through mechanisms in [2] and other as yet unknown mechanisms, sunlight can have profound effects on mood and behavior in ways more general than mating. Ever hear of Seasonal Affective Disorder in humans, otherwise known as the Wintertime Blues? It can sometimes be treated by inhibiting excess melatonin release, by exposing humans to bright full spectrum lights at a certain time for a few hours a day. Ever wonder why hibernation or brumation synchronizes to winter--the reasons involve BOTH temperature drops and dimmer sunlight for a shorter time each day.

[4] Also through [2], [3] and other as yet unknown mechanisms, visible light, UVA and UVB affect the production of growth hormone and other pituitary hormones, along with levels of thyroid hormone, cortisol and the sex hormones testosterone and estrogens [there are actually 3 different estrogens]. Essentially, all of these levels increase with sunlight, except for levels of cortisol which fall [unless there is a severe sunburn]. All of these hormones have *profound* effects on the physiology of all animals [endocrinology is the medical field that focuses on hormones and their effects, and is about 50% of my medical practice]. You may remember another post of mine that spoke of how physiological [bad temps, starvation] and psychological stress can elevate levels of cortisol, which can suppress an animals immune system leaving it susceptible to infections. Because sunlight exposure in moderation can lower cortisol levels and raise levels of the other beneficial hormones, it can contribute mightily to overall health and well being.

And that's just the beginning of what we know! Then there's what we don't know but suspect! So even if Vitamin D3 is completely provided from diet and supplements, there are a lot of other effects from sunlight that can't be easily duplicated without it.

My vet and reptile ethologist friend and I have had many discussions about this. Recognizing that snakes are nocturnal and tend to hide in the wild, it's clear that they don't need a lot of sunlight for optimum health, and in fact amelanistic or snow corns would be poorly adapted to a lot of sunlight [sort of like redhead or albino humans sunburning very easily]. But we do recommend holding your snakes in direct sunlight for about 5 to 10 minutes ONCE A WEEK, for optimum health. Late afternoon in the summer because the sunlight is so strong, 1-2PM in the winter, and adjust in between [I live in Dallas, adjust accordingly by common sense at much higher or lower latitudes]. Be very cautious and limit time to 3-5 minutes for the first few times, and then slowly increase to a full 5 to 10 minutes--it's just like building up gradually when tanning. ONCE A WEEK.

We also prefer having a tank exposed to natural sunlight in the day, even though the glass in the tank and windows will block nearly all UVA and UVB rays. But the visible light and the timing of sunrise, day length and sunset will still do their magic. If this can't be arranged because your snakes are in a windowless room, an adequate substitute can be had by using a plant grow light which is closer to full spectrum in wavelength components. This can be operated on a timer adjusted periodically to sync with sunrise and sunset. I know of one snake owner who has a remote photocell in a window to synchronize his lamps to actual sunrise and sunset, since his snakes are kept in his basement.

When I started doing all this, I noticed a dramatic increase in the physical activity and apparent "awareness" of my snakes within the first week. This was not a scientifically controlled experiment, but I think it's a reasonable and safe conclusion to draw. On X-rays the bony skeletons of my corns appear extremely dense compared to X-rays I've seen of other corns.

Recapping, it is correct that sunlight, UVA or UVB aren't *required* for your corns. But corns can benefit from many things that aren't required, but are still health promoting, just like humans and other animals can.

Get a tan AND get a life,
Doctor Mike

[PSYCOSNAKEMOM]

I'm getting ready for winter and lighting for the snakes, Does anyone Know if I can purchase UVA and UVB light bulbs that would fit in a regular fixture? Do I need to find a pet store, show or can I just get them anywhere? What is the best wattage, they will still have their heat pads but at times will need the light, not everyone can be by the window at the same time!? Will I have to buy special lighting fixtures? I don't like that look of the large silver spotlight just hanging over the tanks! Yuck. So do I have any options? Thanks Sam ~~~~~~~:~

[SilverTongue]

Well you can find them all the time on ebay for pennies on the $$$

[Kel]

Interesring discussion - very informative. I've heard a couple of ideas:

- A word of warning on using UV with Snows. As they have no pigmentation, putting them under UV is like sending a fair-haired person out in strong sunlight without sunblock. There is anecdotal evidence that UV can cause blindness in Snows.

- There is now evidence that snakes hunt using UV fom their prey. I was just wondering how flooding their habitat with concentrated UV might affect them ? In nature, the UV would be naturally diluted and filtered through the atmosphere, with many more opportunities to find hides and shade than in a viv or rack.

I've never kept my Corns with UV, although I have started giving them a calcium/D3 supplement before and after laying this year.

This is quite a new subject for me, so I'd be interested in opinions of the ideas above. Any thoughts ?

Cheers
Kerry

[kenalotia]

The easiest way to get a UVB bulb is to get a fluorescent one. They come in varying sizes, and can go into a regular fluorescent light fixture. If you just want UVA, you can get a regular shaped bulb that will go in most any fixture. The UVB is the one that helps with calcium absorbtion. As far as I know, all of the fluorescent UVB bulbs also have UVA. ZooMed makes a good UVB fluorescent light. Lots of people use it for iguanas, who really need to get plenty of UVB. The ReptiSun is also good.

However, these lights are only good for about 6 months. After that they don't put out very much UVB anymore. At that point you might as well use them as a regular fluorescent light and get a new UV light for your snake.

[Beena]

Our 3 year old corn snake stopped eating 6 weeks ago. We took her in to the vet this week and he has recommended that she be exposed to direct sunlight for a 20 minute time period.
Unfortunately there has been no sun and won't be for the next few days due to rain and snow in the forcast. Would getting a UVB bulb be similar/helpful?

[smigon]

At this time of year many corns are not eating due to "spring fever". I wouldn't worry about her for a few more weeks, keep weighing her to make sure she doesn't lose too much weight, but I wouldn't worry yet.

As for UV lights, they are NOT recommended for corn snakes. I would find a different vet. Some corns can even be blinded by UV lights, so just skip the light and wait a few weeks until hormones quit raging!

[Beena]

At this time of year many corns are not eating due to "spring fever".
As for UV lights, they are NOT recommended for corn snakes. I would find a different vet.

The vet recommended direct, natural sunlight....I was the one that was wondering about the UV lights. We seem to be going through about a week of cloudy, raining, snowing period. I will give her some more time ....she is definitely less agitated today. Staying in her cave. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.