Trying to feed my hatchling

[ladymagpie]

I picked her up and put her in her feeding tub, still inside the viv and half over the warm side. Put the warm pinky in with her and after an hour leaving her alone in the dark no luck. Lifted the lid part way up on her tub and tried wiggling the pinky around using the tweezers and she seemed more terrified than anything else. Advice?

[Nanci]

How big is her feeding bin? I would make the pink HOT, not warm. And put her in the feeding bin, cover it up, and don't peek for a couple hours.

[ladymagpie]

How big is her feeding bin? I would make the pink HOT, not warm. And put her in the feeding bin, cover it up, and don't peek for a couple hours.

It's the one the breeder was using, it's between 15-20cm one side, about 10cm the shorter, i think. My corms about 2.5 - 3 months old.

The pink was in hot water when I defrosted it and still warm when I put it in with her.

[diamondlil]

Put the pink in your thawing cup, pour over boiling water from the kettle and wait for it to go pale and rubbery. Then put it in with the snake while it's still hot........

[ladymagpie]

I've done that thanks diamondlil. Went all pale and I've accidentally squeezed it too hard and some guts came out so hoping that'll help lol. Put it in her feeding tub and turned all the lights out and left her in a quiet part of the house where her viv is. Fingers crossed, I'll have a peek in an hour.

[bitsy]

Leave her overnight as well.

[ladymagpie]

Leave her overnight in her feeding tub? I've covered part of it with kitchen roll paper so she feels like she's hidden. Still not eaten.

[ladymagpie]

Just been in to check on her again and found out that my boyfriend went to check on her a few hours ago and he didn't close the feeding tub properly because she got out. Still in her viv but out of her feeding tub, so I'm leaving the pinky overnight in her favourite hide to see if she's a bit more comfortable that way. I think she's just absolutely terrified of us still.

[diamondlil]

Ok, don't worry too much, one missed feed isn't a big problem. Put more hides in her viv (loo roll tubes, fake plants etc) and don't disturb her at all for 5 days, then try again

[ladymagpie]

Will do, thank you. I normally change her water everyday but I didn't yesterday so I left her undisguised for a full 24 hours. Turned the heat up slightly from 26-27 to 28-29 on the hot side as I heard 28 was optimal. This morning I've changed her water and slowly turned her 2 hides so the entrances to both are opposite, and then put the loo roll tube inbetween both so that its like a tunnel linking the two, as I've noticed she hates the open space between them and goes around the edge of her viv to swap hides. Going to try again Friday.

Am I better off initially feeding her in her viv on the feeding tub? I tried making her feel like she was hiding but covering part of her tub with kitchen roll but will she feel more at ease in her usual hide with the pinky?

[ladymagpie]

*undisturbed, damn autocorrect on my iPad lol

[diamondlil]

I use those small tubs takeaway chinese comes in (except I buy them in Wilcos!) as feeding tubs for little'uns. Whatever you use, on Friday pop her and the hot pinky in it and put it in her viv, then maybe cover the viv with a towel, and leave completely alone until morning. Fingers crossed for you.

[Nanci]

I think the key to success with a feeding container is the small size. The whole purpose (aside from not ingesting substrate) is to put the baby in a confined area with the prey, so the baby won't go off and forget about it.

Another option would be putting the baby in a closed paper bag, small, with the top rolled up, inside the closed viv.

[kaypar2011]

I cover my babies feeding tubs with a navy blue pillow case, it makes it dark, and I think they feel more secure. Fortunately mine have never refused a meal, but I still have to tease feed my Okeetee girl. I also get my mice really hot in the hottest water out of the tap. I refresh the HOT water a couple of times until the mouse is thawed.

[ladymagpie]

On Friday I'll definately try covering her viv with a blanket and leaving her until morning. Thanks for the tips I'll post again Saturday morning so let you know how it went. Fingers crossed... :S

[ladymagpie]

Tonight I tried again as Friday night I'm going to be out. No luck :( I put the food in with her at about 8pm and just now (11:15pm) I've had a sneaky look in and she hasn't eaten. That's 2 feeds missed now, what should I do?

[bitsy]

Leave her completely alone in the feeding tub overnight now. Don't check at all until the morning.

[proileri]

Put the pink in your thawing cup, pour over boiling water from the kettle and wait for it to go pale and rubbery. Then put it in with the snake while it's still hot........

Personally, I would recommend hot tap water over boiling water, just to make sure there's no danger to the snake, and would make sure the pinkie doesn't get wet (inside freezer bag) to keep the scent on.

[Sandra0704]

Hi Ladymagpie,

Just about a year ago know I got my own hatchling and she didn't want to eat either. I also thought it look like she was scared of it. I tried so many things. Finally it was suggested that I stick her in a very small confined container and stick the mouse in their with her. I found a container only a few inches in diameter and was opaque. Then late one night defrosted the mouse tried to feed her and of course she didn't take it as usual so I stuck her in the container with the mouse overnight. I woke up the next day and the whole mouse was completely gone and she had a lump in a stomach. I was so excited and happy she finally ate. The next couple times I did the same exact thing tried feeding her and when she didn't eat I stuck her in the container with the mouse. After just a few times she would take it on her own. Now a year later she jumps right for the mice. Oh and she was only a two or three months old when I did this. Hope this helps you.

Sandra

[ladymagpie]

Cleo ate! :Dancer: Checked her at 11am this morning and there was no sign of the pinky apart from a little lump on her body. I'm so happy and proud of her it's silly hehe :) I took the lid off her feeding tub and very slowly tilted it on its side then moved it towards her hide and she moved off into it herself(I know to be careful about not handling her), then came straight back out again to watch me! It's good to see her getting less scared of me now too.

[ladymagpie]

*:dancer: and thanks everyone for the advice. Gonna feed her again on Wednesday, or should it be every 5 days?

Also I've heard that if the lump from the pinky isn't there 24 hours later I should move onto the next size mouse with her?

[Nanci]

Personally, I would recommend hot tap water over boiling water, just to make sure there's no danger to the snake, and would make sure the pinkie doesn't get wet (inside freezer bag) to keep the scent on.

Normally hatchlings shouldn't require boiled mice. But with a non-feeder, it is quite common for them to accept a boiled pink when they refuse a hot-thawed.

Not that this is a non-feeder, but _something_ about boiled pinks makes them irresistible for even the toughest non-feeders.

[Nanci]

*:dancer: and thanks everyone for the advice. Gonna feed her again on Wednesday, or should it be every 5 days?

Also I've heard that if the lump from the pinky isn't there 24 hours later I should move onto the next size mouse with her?

I feed every five days. I go by weight of the hatchling when increasing the meal size, not whether a lump is present. All my babies are out looking for food 24 hours later. For her next feeding, I would do exactly what you did this time.

[ladymagpie]

I feed every five days. I go by weight of the hatchling when increasing the meal size, not whether a lump is present. All my babies are out looking for food 24 hours later. For her next feeding, I would do exactly what you did this time.

How do I know she's out looking for food?

And where can I find a guide to weight/feed?

And will do, I gave her a boiled pinky by the way.

[diamondlil]

:cheers: Excellent! Boiled pinkies seem almost irresistible! Don't worry about her looking for food, stick to your chosen schedule. She'd eat again whenever she got the chance in the wild, in case the next meal was a long time coming along. Feeding 'on demand' could mean accidentally power feeding and give you a fatty sausage snake!

[Nanci]

I meant, my babies are out looking for food within 24 hours of being fed an appropriate-sized meal. I'd rather have them doing that than being fed an over-sized meal that leaves a lump a day later- risking a regurge. Five days is plenty soon for the next meal.

[ladymagpie]

:cheers: Excellent! Boiled pinkies seem almost irresistible! Don't worry about her looking for food, stick to your chosen schedule. She'd eat again whenever she got the chance in the wild, in case the next meal was a long time coming along. Feeding 'on demand' could mean accidentally power feeding and give you a fatty sausage snake!

But what if a fatty sausage snake looks really cute? Hehe only joking, ill feed her next Tuesday night another pinky. Later on tonight I need to spot clean her hide because I managed to get pinky guts on some of the aspen. Maybe that made the pinky even more irresistible?

I have a little confession though, before putting her in the tub with the pinky I tried teasing her with it first (hence the stains on the aspen, but I did keep the pinky over some kitchen roll to avoid her ingesting some substrate yet apparently I did make a mess!) and she did actually come out of the hide and come over to the pinky for a bit but as soon as she got close she hid again. I tried that because I noticed the night before she had started following me around the room. Not that I look like a pinky, but I thought if she's curious tease feeding might work.

[Nanci]

And where can I find a guide to weight/feed?



From my caresheet:

Sample Feeding Plan (Munson Plan)

-When the snake is on single pinks (2-3g), I feed every 5-6 days. (Snake = 4-15g)
-Double pinks (3g x 2) every 5-6 days. (Snake = 16-23g)
-Small fuzzies (5-7g) every 6-7 days. (Snake = 24-30g)
-Regular fuzzies (7-9g) every 6-7 days (Snake = 30-50g)
-Hoppers (9-12g) every 6-7 days (Snake = 51-90g)
-Weaned (14-20g) every 7 days (Snake = 91-170g)
-Adult (20-30g) every 7-x days (Snake = 170+) See below.

Note: Adult females are fed more frequently than adult males (especially following brumation). Adult females are fed every 7-12 days; adult males are fed every 11-14 days.

This is by no means scientific, and not all corns will cooperate 100% with the schedule. The weight ranges given for the prey and snakes are approximate.

Many snakes refuse to eat while they are “blue” (preparing to shed). It is perfectly all right for your snake to miss one meal, or even two, during this phase.

**************

Actually I would amend that to say adult females eat every 10-14 days, and males every 14-21 days. And I feed the Munson Plan conservatively; I let the snake get a few grams over the recommended size, and start off with mice in the low end of the weight range.

[ladymagpie]

I meant, my babies are out looking for food within 24 hours of being fed an appropriate-sized meal. I'd rather have them doing that than being fed an over-sized meal that leaves a lump a day later- risking a regurge. Five days is plenty soon for the next meal.

Oh ok that makes sense now. I'm gonna weigh her Monday night I think, I have some non-electronic weighting scales and a really tall bowl to put her in, hopefully she'll stay in long enough for me to weight her lol

[diamondlil]

Some hatchlings can't resist tease-feeding, but in my experience it's about equal with the amount who are horrified by moving pinkies and try to escape! As they get bigger and more confident that I'm not a giant snake-killer, most o mine progress fairly soon to snatching the pinky out of my fingers, and all of my adults tease-feed.

[ladymagpie]

From my caresheet:

Sample Feeding Plan (Munson Plan)

-When the snake is on single pinks (2-3g), I feed every 5-6 days. (Snake = 4-15g)
-Double pinks (3g x 2) every 5-6 days. (Snake = 16-23g)
-Small fuzzies (5-7g) every 6-7 days. (Snake = 24-30g)
-Regular fuzzies (7-9g) every 6-7 days (Snake = 30-50g)
-Hoppers (9-12g) every 6-7 days (Snake = 51-90g)
-Weaned (14-20g) every 7 days (Snake = 91-170g)
-Adult (20-30g) every 7-x days (Snake = 170+) See below.

Note: Adult females are fed more frequently than adult males (especially following brumation). Adult females are fed every 7-12 days; adult males are fed every 11-14 days.

This is by no means scientific, and not all corns will cooperate 100% with the schedule. The weight ranges given for the prey and snakes are approximate.

Many snakes refuse to eat while they are “blue” (preparing to shed). It is perfectly all right for your snake to miss one meal, or even two, during this phase.

**************

Actually I would amend that to say adult females eat every 10-14 days, and males every 14-21 days. And I feed the Munson Plan conservatively; I let the snake get a few grams over the recommended size, and start off with mice in the low end of the weight range.

Thank you very much for that, I've written it down and going to keep it by her viv where I keep her records. I'm gonna look up the Munson plan too, I think I've heard about it somewhere else on here.

[Nanci]

That _is_ the Munson Plan...

[diamondlil]

Just a word, though. The Munson plan is a good guide for growing cornsnakes fast, so a lot of people tweak it to be a bit more conservative. In particular, adults fed every 7 days really would be risking they get overweight, so 10-15 day feeding intervals are more common after the snake gets to 300g or so.

[ladymagpie]

Some hatchlings can't resist tease-feeding, but in my experience it's about equal with the amount who are horrified by moving pinkies and try to escape! As they get bigger and more confident that I'm not a giant snake-killer, most o mine progress fairly soon to snatching the pinky out of my fingers, and all of my adults tease-feed.

So do you feed your snakes in a feeding tub or in their viv? And lol I think cleo is starting to realise I'm not gonna eat her as she's doesn't hide straightaway anymore and sometimes follows me around the viv (when she thinks I'm not looking) and watches me.

I thought it was worth a go anyway, she did look at it for a while but decided her hide was a better place then out there with the scary moving thing!

[ladymagpie]

That _is_ the Munson Plan...

I know, I meant I'm gonna read more about it cause I'm interested in how it was formed and the knowledge behind it.

[diamondlil]

So do you feed your snakes in a feeding tub or in their viv? And lol I think cleo is starting to realise I'm not gonna eat her as she's doesn't hide straightaway anymore and sometimes follows me around the viv (when she thinks I'm not looking) and watches me.

I thought it was worth a go anyway, she did look at it for a while but decided her hide was a better place then out there with the scary moving thing!
Babies, always in a feeding tub. They are pooping-machines when they are little and on paper towels and I always have to change it and rinse out those little tubs, every time. Then when they are on substrate (I use aubiose horse bedding) I use feeding tubs religiously until they are over 18 months to 2 years so they don't risk swallowing substrate and getting a blockage.
My adults, in their tubs if I'm just spot-cleaning, in a feeding tub if I'm cleaning out and changing their bedding anyway.