Injured & now only regurges food...HELP PLEASE b4 my snake dies???

[Soldierzgurl79]

I have 2 corn snakes n a 46 gal. bow front fish tank (temporarily). I have an amel motley male about 19 in. long we purchased from Petland in Sept 2012 & an opal female we purchased online & had shipped Oct. 2012.

My problem is with my opal female. We had her 3 weeks & everything was fine...she had fed & shed w/ no issues. My hubby made the mistake of feeding her a pinky that was 2 big. :uhoh: She ate it & regurgitated the next day but it bruised her from base of the head 2 the tail. We left her alone after that 4 about a week & the bruising went away mostly. Now every time we feed her it comes back out the next day...some r partially digested & some r not at all. She is still drinking but not acts like herself. She's getting skinny & it worries me...I don't wanna lose her :cry: I live n a small town & none of the vets do snakes. I have called all the local pet stores & they all give me conflicting info...What should I do???

[kurasumi]

I'm sure some of the other members will be able to help you more with regurge care info, but my immediate advice would be to separate the two snakes. They're largely solitary and shouldn't be housed together. Chances are the stress from living with another snake isn't helping.

What I've heard about caring for regurges is to wait about ten days after a regurge and then offer the snake a SMALL meal. A pinkie head or a small rat tail, maybe? Like I said, other members will provide better info than I can. You probably also want to invest in some nutribac, ASAP. I hope all goes well for you.

[susang]

I'm sorry but don't exactly understand what you mean bruise from head to tail with regurge? How often have you been feeding her? Yes they should be seperated. What are the temps?

[kaypar2011]

Check temps and separate the snakes. Corns should not be cohabbed. Then follow regurge instructions that you can find here.

[bitsy]

She ate it & regurgitated the next day but it bruised her from base of the head 2 the tail.
I don't know what you observed, but it wasn't bruising. Regurges don't cause bruises, still less all-over body bruising. Their stomach is only one-third of the way down the body, so the mouse wouldn't have done any damage to the last two-thirds of her body on the way back up.

Now every time we feed her it comes back out the next day...some r partially digested & some r not at all. She is still drinking but not acts like herself. She's getting skinny & it worries me...
It's difficult to recover from multiple regurges, especially if the snake is starting to be physically weak. About a third of the way down this FAQ, are regurge instructions written by Kathy Love - one of the best Corn breeders in the world. She knows what she's talking about and it's worth following her advice to the letter:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28342

The most important thing to begin with is that you leave enough time after a regurge for their digestive system to recover. After a regurge, don't feed again for at least 8 days.

[kathylove]

All of the above advice about separating, no stress, fasting, and checking temps is good advice. And I also don't understand the comment about "bruising". I haven't ever seen anything like that. You don't really say how many times she fed and digested ok, and how many times she regurged. If you only had her 3 weeks, it can't have been THAT many feedings yet, especially if you fasted her a week.

Once a baby has regurged 3 times or more, the prognosis quickly becomes much worse. And if the middle part of the body starts to feel mushy when you gently palpate it, then there isn't a lot of hope. Hopefully she still feels firm to the touch. But please follow the regurge FAQ for the best hope of recovery, and also let us know more particulars, such as the questions I asked above.

Good luck!

[Soldierzgurl79]

My husband & I r first time snake owners but have always wanted some so a lot of things r new 2 us. We did a lot of research online b4 & after buying.

We first got her on Oct. 3rd 2012 (w/ a health certificate) & the info shipped w/ her said she was approx. 3 months old & needed 2 b fed 10 days after we got her. We had our male almost a month b4 her & had been feeding him every week w/ no issues. We began feeding her on the same schedule & she had 2 or 3 successful feeds + 1 shed b4 the pinky that was 2 big. When she ate the 1 that was 2 big it took her 4ever 2 eat it but she managed 2 get it down. It moved almost 2 the end of her body later that night. We got up the next morning & it had came back up. We went 2 pick her up so we could clean out the tank & noticed her body was a dark purplish/gray color from the base of the head 2 the tail end. We had heard of lite colored snakes getting "bruised" from handling or on tank items so we assumed it was the pinky that did it. We called a couple pet stores & they said wait a few days & try again. We did & now she's done it 3 times. I don't wanna c anything happen 2 her. She was always grumpy from the day we got her & we just figured she wasn't handled much. Now she is so much different.

Tank is kept between 75 & 85 daily. We don't have any lights other than the tank light but we do have a large heat tape on the right side of the tank. Our male has never had any issues so we r not sure what 2 do. We had planned 2 separate them very soon since my husband is building them something.

My husband checked her & she feels firm so there's hope i guess. I get so much conflicting advice from pet stores & websites...not sure what 2 do. I did read over the article about regurgitation & we r going 2 try that n a few days 2 c if that works.

I don't wanna lose her...my oldest son (w/ heart problems) has really taken a liking 2 her.

[Soldierzgurl79]

We did notice the last 2 times we fed them that they were not interested so we went from feeding 1ce a week 2 1ce every 2 weeks. :(

[susang]

My husband & I r first time snake owners but have always wanted some so a lot of things r new 2 us. We did a lot of research online b4 & after buying.

We first got her on Oct. 3rd 2012 (w/ a health certificate) & the info shipped w/ her said she was approx. 3 months old & needed 2 b fed 10 days after we got her. We had our male almost a month b4 her & had been feeding him every week w/ no issues. We began feeding her on the same schedule & she had 2 or 3 successful feeds + 1 shed b4 the pinky that was 2 big. When she ate the 1 that was 2 big it took her 4ever 2 eat it but she managed 2 get it down. It moved almost 2 the end of her body later that night. We got up the next morning & it had came back up. We went 2 pick her up so we could clean out the tank & noticed her body was a dark purplish/gray color from the base of the head 2 the tail end. We had heard of lite colored snakes getting "bruised" from handling or on tank items so we assumed it was the pinky that did it. We called a couple pet stores & they said wait a few days & try again. We did & now she's done it 3 times. I don't wanna c anything happen 2 her. She was always grumpy from the day we got her & we just figured she wasn't handled much. Now she is so much different.

Tank is kept between 75 & 85 daily. We don't have any lights other than the tank light but we do have a large heat tape on the right side of the tank. Our male has never had any issues so we r not sure what 2 do. We had planned 2 separate them very soon since my husband is building them something.

My husband checked her & she feels firm so there's hope i guess. I get so much conflicting advice from pet stores & websites...not sure what 2 do. I did read over the article about regurgitation & we r going 2 try that n a few days 2 c if that works.

I don't wanna lose her...my oldest son (w/ heart problems) has really taken a liking 2 her.

First saying the food went to the end of her body is like sayig your dinner went to your knees and then came back up. As Bitsy said their stomach is in first third of the body. Bruising may be other snake being aggressive with her.

It's good to say you will seperate them, but let me be bold here co-habbing your snakes is causing them stress and harm, the proof is the regurging. Do a search here on co-habbing: it stresses the snake, corn snakes can be cannabalistic and worse they could mate.

[susang]

We did notice the last 2 times we fed them that they were not interested so we went from feeding 1ce a week 2 1ce every 2 weeks. :(

Sorry but that is not a good idea. They could have been uninterested in meals because they are stressed, going into shed... I'm guessing 1ce means 1 mouse.

[kurasumi]

Sorry but that is not a good idea. They could have been uninterested in meals because they are stressed, going into shed... I'm guessing 1ce means 1 mouse.

I think by 1ce they meant "once," so "once a week to once every two weeks."

[Teatime]

Why are you calling pet stores for medical advice instead of going to a vet? If they told you to wait a "few days" and try again they were wrong. You have to wait at least a week after a regurge to try feeding again.

Here: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28342 Kathy Love's FAQ about regurges can be found at this thread.

[susang]

I think by 1ce they meant "once," so "once a week to once every two weeks."

OK thanks for the help.

[susang]

Now that I know what 1ce means 1ce every 2 weeks still bad advice. Your newest snake should be eating every 4-7 days if healthy. Some will feed babies once every 4-5 days, once every 7 days more maintainance type diet.

[epicdoom]

so many issues here first if your snake had a regurge and you called a pet store who told you try again in a couple days there is the reason for the second regurge my guess is a couple days later you tried again and now a 3rd regurge I suggest you go to this link
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28342 you will want to use the link to Kathy's site to get a product called nutri-bac get the feeding kit also to have on hand. As stated Kathy is one of the top breeders in the US she knows whats she's doing and is very helpful. PLEASE !! Do not attempt to feed the snake again till you have read completly the link posted. Have nutri-bac in your possession and have chatted with Kathy about it. I don't want to see you loose your snake to something that may be fixable. I wish you the best

[BloodyBaroness]

Follow Kathy Love's advice to the letter.

Also, please separate these snakes and keep all future snakes separate.

If they were feeding well for the breeder, the stress of cohabbing may be what is causing the female to be sick. Snakes are not social creatures in the wild. Forcing them to live under duress in captivity causes unneeded stress that can lead to situations like this.

[kathylove]

Also, please note that all animals have some pathogens (disease causing germs) in them at any given time - including us! Usually, the numbers are low and a good immune system keeps them from overwhelming the animal. But when they get sick or stressed - such as multiple regurges can cause - the pathogens can multiply really fast, and your healthy snake (or human or any animal) can become sick quickly with something that normally does little harm. In that case, it can also infect its cagemate with overwhelming numbers of microbes. So it is possible that you could end up with 2 sick snakes instead of one. It is really important to separate them right away.

[screamindemon17]

Do you have a uth ,heat lamp or heat rock.... what you think is a bruise could be a burn.... i only learned this cause a buddy of mine had a (uth) under tank heater and not a therm and it burned the little girl pretty bad ...she started regurging and passed

[bitsy]

1 shed b4 the pinky that was 2 big. When she ate the 1 that was 2 big it took her 4ever 2 eat it but she managed 2 get it down. It moved almost 2 the end of her body later that night.
You were seeing something other than the freshly-eaten pinky. They stay in the stomach - one-third of the way down the body - for a day or two, before moving further down the digestive system. If you observed a bulge in the lower two-thirds of the body after eating, she may just have been getting ready to poop.

We went 2 pick her up so we could clean out the tank & noticed her body was a dark purplish/gray color from the base of the head 2 the tail end. We had heard of lite colored snakes getting "bruised" from handling or on tank items so we assumed it was the pinky that did it.
I've never heard of a snake being bruised from handling. I can't imagine how rough you'd have to be to injure a Corn like that - even a baby - and it honestly sounds like you're much more careful than that.

We called a couple pet stores & they said wait a few days & try again. We did & now she's done it 3 times.
Wait much longer - as per Kathy's advice and FAQ, leave at least 8 days after a regurge before trying again.

She was always grumpy from the day we got her & we just figured she wasn't handled much. Now she is so much different.
As a new arrival she would have been absolutely terrified rather than grumpy. You need to leave new arrivals alone for at least a wekk before handling. They get used to the smells, sounds and layouts of their new tank first, then they can get used to you later (they live for 15+ years, so you'll have plenty of time!) Being put into a tank with another snake would have been additional stress on top of that. Now that she's been weakened by repeated regurges, she's likely to be much more docile and quiet.

Tank is kept between 75 & 85 daily.
You need around one-third of the floor surface to be around 85 constantly. Without that level of heat all the time they can't digest properly - incorrect temps are one cause of regurges.

We don't have any lights other than the tank light but we do have a large heat tape on the right side of the tank.
Corns don't need lights, so that's fine. If the heat tape isn't controlled by a thermostat or dimmer, it might not be reaching the right temp for digestion, or it could be getting too hot for the snake to be near it (which would have the same effect). You need some kind of controller for the tape, it needs to be heating the floor surface rather than the wall (it may alreayd be doing that - sorry, not clear from your info so far) and you need to be measuring the temps with a digital or infra-red thermometer on the floor nearest the tape (becuase that's where the snakes will be).

Our male has never had any issues so we r not sure what 2 do.
Corns are individuals and if you have a slightly borderline setup, just because it works for one doesn't mean another will be able to tolerate it, especially with additional stressors. Remember that your male was allowed a settling-in period on his own, where your problem babe never had time to relax before being put in with him.

We had planned 2 separate them very soon since my husband is building them something.
That's a great idea.

I did read over the article about regurgitation & we r going 2 try that n a few days 2 c if that works.
8 days rather than "a few" :)

Sorry that you've had such bad advice up until now - you're obviously a caring owner who wants the best for their snakes and I really do hope that it works out for you. Let us know how it goes.

[Soldierzgurl79]

I'm sorry...I'm used 2 abbreviating things n a hurry. 1ce means once...i wasn't thinking of other reading it & having problems...sorry

im going 2 separate them & give her smaller meals 2 c if this helps. i will update on the progress

[Soldierzgurl79]

I live n a small town & none of the vets do snakes otherwise I would

[Soldierzgurl79]

I was curious about something tho...

I have children & other animals but they never bother the tank. Can noise b another issue??? Our dog is large & can make a lot of noise barking. I'm a stay @ home (home school) mom so I don't let her make a lot of noise.

I don't let my kids even open the tank more less anything else unless we r right there monitoring things so I don't think that's much of an issue unless they get 2 loud...i do have 3 boys after all.

[bitsy]

give her smaller meals 2 c if this helps
That's what the FAQ advises, so it will definitely contribute to a recovery. However it won't help if the temps on the floor are wrong or the snakes are still together. Regurges can be caused by a combination of several factors, all of which need to be fixed. You're definitely heading in the right direction!

[diamondlil]

First off, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, and glad you came here to this forum for help, as being in the situation of having conflicting (and incorrect) advice before must have been scary. In fact I know how scary it is, because I almost lost one of my first snakes years ago and it was the help and support from on here that helped save her.
As other people have said, your first step should be to separate the snakes, if this regurging is due to an illness it could be passed to your healthy snake. You don't need a fancy set-up. Sterlite bins with airholes make good housing for young corns, but you'll need a way of regulating the heat and accurately checking it. So you'll need a heat-mat that will go under about a third of both bins, controlled by a thermostat, plus a digital in/out thermometer (Wallmart etc have them in the gardening section) If you haven't got the funds right now to get the thermostat, you can raise the bins off of the heatmat with strips of 2 by 4 wood to make sure they aren't touching the mat and there is an airspace below them. (But that would be a temporary arrangement)
When you have the temperatures stable, and after fasting the regurging snake for at least 10 days, you can try feeding her a thawed pinky head. This gives her oesophagus time to heal up from the acids that will damage it with a regurge. As you have been told, adding nutribac to her water can help, but if you can't get it you can get grapefruit seed extract from a health food shop and use about a drop in a pint of water to help support your snakes healing process.
After repeated regurges the chances of your snake surviving do get slimmer, but if you follow Kathy Love's regurge protocol you may be able to give her a fighting chance

[Soldierzgurl79]

I wanna thank every1 on here that has tried 2 help me. I have been so confused w/ stores telling me different things b4 & have wasted $$$. You would think that if pet stores r gonna sell em that they would know more than they do about em. I sure hope we can get her back 2 healthy.

i will update on everything soon.

[kaypar2011]

[QUOTE=Soldierzgurl79;1521431]I was curious about something tho...

I have children & other animals but they never bother the tank. Can noise b another issue??? Our dog is large & can make a lot of noise barking. I'm a stay @ home (home school) mom so I don't let her make a lot of noise.

Snakes are basically deaf. They do not have ears but they can feel vibrations. I do not think a barking dog or other household noise is the problem.

Goodl luck with your snake.

[Soldierzgurl79]

Wanna thank every1 again 4 their advice. I separated the snakes & waited 4 days 2 feed. She still would not eat (yesterday) & when I woke up 2day she was flopping around everywhere & has passed.

Hopefully the male will eat again. He seems happier alone now & very energetic. while they were 2gether @ the end he started not wanting 2 eat.

Time will tell...

[bitsy]

Sorry for your loss. Let's hope the female didn't have a disease that your male caught. Good luck.

[epicdoom]

Very sorry to hear you lost her. I hope your make starts doing better.

[screamindemon17]

Im sorry for your lose

[VickyChaiTea]

I'm so sorry for your loss. :(

I think I figured out what you thought was bruising. In young lightly colored corn snakes, you can often see some of their organs under their skin. Maybe that's what you saw.

[Soldierzgurl79]

Ty...my male is doing much better & has eaten at least 1ce since my last post w/ no issues. He seems ok & is getting bigger. I think he's getting ready 2 shed again cause he's looks kinda blueish. I definitely have learned & will never put snakes n the same tank again unless breeding. I just feel bad cause I feel like I have failed the female :(

[Soldierzgurl79]

A pet store said that's probably what I saw. I thought mayb she had some parasite causing it.

[Isoldael]

Very sorry to hear about your female passing away, but glad that the male is doing better.