Need some answers

I was looking at all of the Beautiful babies that Rich has and I need alittle help figuring out how some of his descriptions play out in the genetics. An example: Crimson It says" basically a hypo. Miami Phase" Now is Miami phase a genetic trait like Motley? How would I figure this say in a Punnet square? just hypo.? and would you want to breed this to anything other than another Crimson? If so what and what would the phenotype be like? I'm wondering the same about several others also like the hypo. Okeetee? Can I breed this to my Amel. het. hypo? and what would I get all that look like Okeetees or what?


oh geeze I thought I was finally getting the hang of this
Now I'm sooo confused!!


Colleen

Oketee and Miami are considered as normals in any genetic calculations. Serpwidgets home page has the best information on understanding corn snake genetics.

Peter

Miami and Okeetee, are co-dominate traits. Unfortunatly you can't enter these type of traits in a punnet square or prodgeny predictor. You are correct when saying, you would enter just "hypo". You see, if you mix a Miami with a normal, the babies would look like something in the middle, like a mixed can of paint. Unlike recessive traits where you either got it or you don't. If you are really lucky you may get one that still looks like a Miami after out crossing with a normal, but the mixing of co dominant genes is very unpredictable. However, the majority of the animals would just have mixed coloring. As an example, check out South Mountain Reptiles, I beleive it is cornsnakes.net. He sells "Hypo Miamis" and "Crimsons". These are just two different lines of the same genetic combinations. But in person they look dramaticly different. This is also a reason it is so hard to make good candy canes. We are still working out the impurities brought to the Miami coloration when an amel was introduced to a Miami. But you have to start some where. Just think of dominate genes as two drops of paint, one from each parent, put together. I am sure someone else could explain it better, but hey I tried.

actually I don't think miami and okeetee are codominant traits...that would imply there's only one gene involved. Instead, they probably involve lots of different things. These traits are more about selective breeding for a specific look over many generations than one particular gene. I don't think you could ever say you have an animal that's "het for miami" or "het for okeetee", they either are or they aren't. Treat them as normal in the predictor, and if you want to get animals with those traits, breed 2 miamis or 2 okeetees together, because as carol said it can take a long time to get the impurities out of the line. just my $.02

Agreed... I didn't mean to imply it was just one gene, but the genes involved are dominant or co-dominant, as apposed to recessive. But now I see where it looks like I said that. And speaking in terms of coloration and not locality, there is a fine line in definition. I mean, when are the black borders not big enough to be called an Okeetee? How much orange on the back of the neck should we allow before an animal is not a Miami? You can have two great looking Miamis and somehow hatch out a specimen that no one would call a Miami. You can have two great Okeetees and hatch out something with thin borders and white speckling. So it is hard to say an animal "is or it isn't". That is the difficulty of non-recessive traits.

Thank you!

Ok so if I'm understanding you correctly then these types would best be bred only together to keep that specific look. That was what I thought but I wasn't sure. It's so great to have experienced people to check with. I have been living on the forums and Serpwidgets site as well as the 2 he has links to. And of course studying the Corn Manual, but there is soooo much to learn about the genetics involved in breeding!!!
Lets see I have 2 years until their breeding age........



Thanks
Colleen

Polygenic...

Just to clarify... what makes a miami a miami (other than our opinions, hehe) is a bunch of different traits, such as background color, which are affected by many genes. Some of them may be dominant, some codominant, and some recessive. The difference that Carol was talking about is simple versus polygenic.

Just think of it like crossing a collie with a poodle: it would take a lot of selective breeding to get back to anything resembling either of those breeds.

Lol, Serp, I have been reading your posts to much I am starting to regain my ability to decode science lingo. Polygenic, that word makes perfect sense. I was a Biology freak in High School but after a while unfortunately as a teenager, I decided there "interesting" things to do and I never had a chance to get back into it. You don't use it you lose it. Until you listen to Serp for a while. It is starting to come back to me.

As always so visual!!

Serp, you always can make it so clear with your visual descriptions!! Collie and Poodle......got it!!!

Thanks all

Colleen