Cat food, dog food!?!

[cornsnake234]

Are they suppose to love cat or dog food!?!? because i've read several thread about what mouse can eat and what is better and cat and dog food seems to be in the top of the list.... i've tried it since the first day i've got my mices but they only eat some at the first day, when it's a new brand.

I've try two kind of cat food, nutrience and science diet since i have those brand at home for my cats and it's suppose to be very good cat food, i don't know why they don't like it. I also feed them gerbil food and they only eat sunflower seeds into it, they throw the oters item out of their food dishes same for cat food. I also give them millet and flax seeds and they really enjoy it.... sometimes i give them vegetables and fruit but they don't eat them too much.

Sunflower, millet and flax must not be a complete diet for mice breeding!?! what can i add to their diet!?

Thx

[CrazyCorn]

The thing is when an animals tastes something sweet it usually doesn't want anything else but that sweet tasting food, I have had no problems in the past with having them eat dog food they just don't go crazy over it like sweet things. Sweets should only be given in moderate amounts.

[DAND]

I don't know if they have it up there in Canada but I use Dad's Economites. I've tried all kinds of different foods and this is not only the best thus far but it is also the cheapest I've found.

[magick-bears]

Why is it that you would want to feed your mice the cheapest dog food you can find? The #1 reason I raise my own feeders is so I can make sure that they get the best food. By feeding them the cheapest dog food you can buy you are feeding your snakes the cheapest mice. Personally, I would prefer to feed my snakes the highest quality mice. Not only that but dog food causes mice to be obese and lowers their production rates. The only time dog food should be considered is if you have a mouse that has had extreme weight loss due to stress or heat. Then I would and do feed a caned maximum calorie diet. I use Eukanuba's Maximum-Calorie™/Canine & Feline Canned Formula which it part of their Veterinarian line.

I also do not suggest using a seed diet. As you have found the mice pick out the sunflower, millet and flax seeds and leave the rest. This is the equivalent of offering a 2 year old a choice of M&Ms, spinach, and Gummy Bears. What is the one thing you think will be left?

That leaves the only logical choice being Lab Blocks. There is nothing for them to pick and choose from. And as long as you by a mouse/rat lab block they are formulated specifically for mice. In a breeding/production environment I would suggest a high fat mouse lab block.

This is all from personal experiance of almost 20 years of commercial breeding of mice.

Jeff C.

[cornsnake234]

I think what you said make a lot of sens! :cool: I've removed from their diet what they *liked* and only feed them cat food for the moment because i don't know where to find those lab blocks! :shrugs:
They don't seem to enjoy this diet at all, it's very hard to resist!! :cry:

By the way, i have another problem, one of my female has become really agressive at me since 2 days. Normally it was my nicest mice, she was coming at my hand to sniff and i was able to touch her.... but now she is nervous and she had also try to bit me!!! :eek1: is it a normal behaviour!?

Thx for replies.

[Drizzt80]

Another point of note for this discussion on seed feeds is that sunflowers are very high in fat content. That is why your mice pick them out first. They are also cheaper for the manufacturers to use in the mix. This knowledge comes from my owning of various parrots over the years. Sunflowers=bad for part of the regular diet.

Depending the size of your colony, rodent blocks may or may not be cost effective when compared to dog/cat food. Someone posted their mix which I am going to try which consisted of dog food and oats. We'll see what happens I guess.

D80

[magick-bears]

I almost did not post this but I really would like to know. Why would you want to switch from Lab Blocks to dog food just to save a few bucks. Is it really worth the few dollars saved to lower the quality of your feeders. I have had snakes that have been brought up on feeders fed dog food and they have always been much smaller then snakes of comparable age fed high quality feeders raised on lab blocks. On top of it I have lived all over the U.S.A and have never had to pay more then $20 for a 50 pound bag of Lab Blocks. Most of the time it is $15 or less. Sorry for the rant, but, I just don't get it.

Jeff C.

[Drizzt80]

Magick, my response to your post would be that I personally would have to compare the ingredients of both products, as well as the amount of protein, vitamins, etc. each contains. It is my understanding that you want a high level of protein for breeders as well as calcium.

Personally, I feed a mixture of rodent diet (seed mix minus the flowers), Kaytee pellets for mice, and lab rodent chow. There is a very distinct progression of their choice of foods from my mix that I have been recently noticing. They choose to eat the seed items, the Kaytee pellets, and then the chow. Quite honestly, the breeders have eaten their babies on occassion before choosing to eat the rodent chow.

Having not specifically compared lab chow to dog food YET, I am investigating other options for feeding the small colony of breeders I maintain.

In reference to saving a few bucks . . . Unless you have an unlimited amount of cash flow (which I don't), I'm all for saving money. I will not save money at the expense of my animal's health, BUT all things considered and being equal (amount, nutritional value, etc.) I will go with the cheaper food be it dog food or lab chow.

I hope this effectively answers your rant, and I appreciate the discussion.
:)

D80

[magick-bears]

Drizzt80 Thanks for taking my post in the spirit it was meant in. I really did post to stimulate discussion. However, I was afraid I might have come across to strong. This is simply because I have a strong passion for mice (as pets and show animals) as much as I do for snakes. I have just seen way to many mice that are fat and tumor laden due to having been fed a dog food diet. I just don't think I will ever understand it. The way I see it is if Lab Block for mice was cheaper then dog food would people start switching their dogs to Lab Blocks? I due commend you in the fact that you plan to research it in depth first. Also higher fat levels are more important for breeders in production then high protein. The feed I am currently using is 24% protein and 11% fat. Personally I think it is a little high in protein. I prefer a protein level of 20% or so. I would recommend no less then 9% fat for breeders.

Just my $0.03
Jeff C.

[DAND]

Magick,

I posted earlier that I have tried a variety of different foods for the rodents I have (mice and rats) which also included rodent chow. The protein and fat in what I use (Dad's Economites) is 16% and 7%. With this product I have less waste and the stools aren't loose as they were with a number of other products I had tried. My rodents aren't fat and they do not have tumors, nor would I consider using something like that to feed my snakes. I can understand your passion for rodents because I too share this paiion to a certain extent. I want my rodents to be as healthy as they can be... then they become snake food.

[magick-bears]

Dand, I am glad that you have found a food source that works well. That is actualy a very good protein and fat levals for maintaining mice and mice that are in low production. However, in general that is not the percentages that dog foods have. The largest problem with dog food is that it is high in protein (some as high as 27%). Most of that protein is in the form of animal protein. Animal protein is difficult for mice to digest/use. Now if you can find a vegitarian based dog food with protien of 16%-21% then that could actualy be healthy for mice. Problem is I have never seen one for less then $15 for a 50 pound bag. Come to think of it there are not many dog foods I have seen latly that are that cheap.

Just my $0.03
Jeff C.

[Susan]

Currently, I feed Mazuri Rodent 6F (the only Mazuri Rodent available in my location). I'm not sure if this is their type for rodent breeders or not. Analysis (and I'm reading it off the label) is 16% protein and 6% fat. The main ingredients are corn, soybean, wheat and oats. These are the types of things rodents eat in the wild.

Before I was able to find the Mazuri food, I made my own mixture of whole oats, cracked corn, some sunflower seeds and some dog food (actually the cheapest I could find - Ol' Roy Adult - since that had the lowest protein and was made mostly of corn and other "less desirable" ingredients...for DOGS...but good for rodents).

[magick-bears]

Susan the Mazuri Rodent 6F is ok for breeders. Mazuri® Rodent Breeder 9F 5M68 is slightly better for faster growth of the kits. And though I prefer a higher fat diet for mice I do not like Mazuri® Rodent Breeder 11F 5M99. The problem with Mazuri feeds is that the only difference between their 6% fat diet and their 11% fat diet is how much animal fat they put in. As I have said before mice have trouble with large percentages of animal products/bi-products in their diet. I personally still think that ProLab RMH 2000 made by Purina Mills is the best commercially available diet available for high production mice. I used it for almost 15 years. In that time I had a closed herd/colony that was line-bred as well as inbred. I had very few problems with tumors (less then 1 in a 100) and a majority of my does bred up to and beyond 2 years. I was also producing an average litter size of 15 to 18 with litters of as many as 28. Unfortunately non of the grain stores in my area carry it and the ones willing to order it want me to take more then I could use with in it's 3-6 month self life.

Just my $0.03
Jeff C.

[Sasheena]

I think that sometimes people focus on the "cheap" dogfoods, as they are not good for dogs, but are great for mice. I have tried a huge variety of dogfoods, and rat foods and mice foods and focus now on the one dogfood the mice like more than any others. I noticed that they do drink more water, perhaps to process the protien, but they breed like crazy when on that dog food and they don't get fat (unless genetically predisposed to fat). Since it WORKS, I go with it. The only time I used rodent blocks.... they ALL ate their babies (about 250 mouse babies, gone in 36 hours) and then they started to die. I threw away the expensive rodent chow, moved back to my preferred brand of dog food, and they recuperated and started to breed again.