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Alexander and The Terrible Horrible NO Good Very Bad Day~~~~~~:~

PSYCOSNAKEMOM
07-22-2004, 11:28 AM
I need to whine, so I will do it in list form so that you don't have to listen to me ramble. PLUS the information from the vet I feel is important (if true) for everyone to know, so here it goes.
1. My timing stinks. I didn't plan well for either egg laying or egg hatching. My son is an archer and I need to travel a lot with him to tournaments. Basically I was gone during egg laying and egg hatching, Go figure. I have a snake sitter and she is good but she just didn't pick up on a few things, so I lost a few eggs, and I lost a few babies.
2. Even before that I did a snake presentation at school but had to get to my karate class, I asked a friend to just take the snakes in their containers and leave them in the living room, I would be back in an hour to put them away, temps and air where all ok. When he put them on the floor he loosened one of the lids. My three year old Sauron slid out, that was a month ago :cry: . I have found poop twice but my house is always under construction, she could be long gone. Plus I collect everything My house is full of JUNK, Hot Wheels, Barbies Star Trek (goddess save me) Every day I look with no luck.
3. BUT it goes back because she was egg bound, a trip to the vet $130.00, she finally laid all the eggs (can one LAID eggs???) She is a GOOD eater even egg bound she was eating, big and strong like bull. LOST like my mind! Her babies are all born and also BIG and STRONG!!!
4. AND before I left for the last trip to Georgia, My Barbie Butter was not doing well in the eating department, she hadn't eaten before she laid eggs etc, you know the normal stuff but then she double clutched even though I didn't breed her the second time (slugs) so she wasn't eating again, she has always been my fussy girl, she, now here is the key word "was".three years old, picky eater, smaller size, a little jumpy ...anyhow. I was planning on a vet visit when I got back if she didn't eat by then, when I came home she was dead. The snake sitter didn't say anything I never asked, she would have only felt bad, and I'm not sure she could have done anything. Iam mad at myself and sad cuz I miss her, She was my little butterball princess. When I left her she was ok drinking and moving but any how. All her eggs didn't make it, Not sure why...because I was, again, gone when she laid them.
5. So I took her roommate Beanie my silver to the vet, for a "just in case", Because she looks fine and is eating and everything, (another $130.00) They did fine pinworms. Now here is the important stuff. The vet said this is normal to have some level of pinworms, it's just that because they are confined and pooping in a small area the pinworms tend to get more concentrated in the animal. I panic, of course, because I am so finatically about cleaning and bleaching and I spend so much time doing this every night. He said that if I introduce a new animal to the AREA, even another reptile like an anole, that that could get things going. Well, things are always coming and going at my house and ther was that little motley that I bought on a whim at the White Plains show that dies a few weeks later (I wasn't too attached and mostly said "Now have you learned your lesson???" NOW everyone is being treated for pinworm which by the way this vet recommends testing yearly if you don't introduce new animals and testing more often if you do. Even new babies in THIS house are going to be treated before they leave, though vet says that it's not necessary unless I see problems. ( I say to myself "PROBLEMS") I asked if this is why Barbie died. He says no, unless in combination with a lot of stress. SO, now Iam feeling really bad, because she was stressed, eggs twice, not eating and no vet care. AND I'm in Georgia watching the kiddo shoot arrows for six days!
6. Anyhow, babies are doing good now, but I am wondering if the snake sitter hasn't messed up the tops which label who is who, Because I got some strange matches. SO I am now feeling that I can't sell as what they are cuz I DON'T KNOW who is who, I can only sell "as is", or what you see may not be what you get! Perhaps when she was changing water she put the wrong top on the wrong bottom (label label label)
7. LAST night or this moring rather, I went to check a batch. THE WHOLE batch was gone. They had slipped out under the lid of the plastic shoe box, then OUT of the tupperware incubator, which I leave open a crack for air and then out of MY LIFE......there were only six of them and they had just eaten their third meal and now they are gone :cry: more crying....
SO, thanks for listening, I guess I just saved $100. on therapy by venting here. I would be interested in knowing anyone elses thoughts on the pinworm stuff. I am NOT willing to send these babies out without treating them but I am also not crazy about giving them drugs!
Thanks friends Sam ~~~~~~~~~~:~

brownie55
07-22-2004, 12:38 PM
That is not a stretch I'd wish on an enemy. So sorry there is so much doo-doo in your life that is not coming from the back end of a snake. Hope it gets better soon. Always willing to listen, or even offer an absorbent shoulder....

Kel
07-22-2004, 01:22 PM
Oh Sam that's miserable luck all round. Just one of those things would break my heart! I do hope things start looking up for you. At least comfort yourself that you're a caring person to be so upset.

Jicin
07-23-2004, 03:48 AM
*shrugs*. Sorry to say it but i think you should either: Take a snakesitter that knows what he/she's doing. Don't leave them alone for to long or simply don't have them. It's not the snakes fault there dying in bushes. You bought and bred them so it's your resposibility

CornCrazy
07-23-2004, 06:09 AM
Sam,

As far as I know, pinworms are species specific. Did the vet see pinworms or pinworm eggs? I have been told by several vets that snakes can get pinworm eggs from infected mice. The snake would then pass the eggs in the stool...no problems. The pinworms don't actually "infect" the snake. I will ask the doctors at work today. I've never asked the vets I work with. I was told this info by some of the vets at the clinics where I did my rotations.

And I am terribly sorry to hear about your bad luck. I have been there, and know exactly how you feel. I hope that things get better for you!

PSYCOSNAKEMOM
07-24-2004, 10:25 AM
Hey Terri, I think he said pinworm eggs but I will call Monday to double check. They are on second batch of three treatments, pandacur or danacur, it's hard to read the label. Everone is eating and seems ok I did a major bleaching cleanout of every tank and bowl and person in my house (just not the hot wheels). And a little bit of funny good news, when I went to start my shower yesterday one of the lost babies was in the tub. so I am now missing just five of them :cry: but I have a little bit of hope.
Oh, if anyone couldn't tell I DO take full responsibily for all of this. I feel just awful. I don't blame my snake sitter, she called everyday with updates, questions and request. When two eggs didn't hatch she asked what should she do, what could she do really? If I was there I may have cut them open, but there is no guarantee that even if I cut them open I would have gotten live snakes. I believe that they did drown in their eggs or for some reason couldn't get out. Some times I know why these things happen and sometimes I don't. Thanks again guys... babies look great ~~~~~:~ sam

Skye
07-24-2004, 08:40 PM
Panacur (fenbendazole) is the accepted treatment for pinworms. It is a very safe drug, and can be generally administered without any worries of side effects. When I observe pinworm eggs in treatable numbers in a snake fecal, I treat the whole colony, even if I haven't yet done fecals on all of them.

Glad you found one of your babies. I hope you find the rest. One of my yearlings decided to make a break for the border today. She shot off like lightning and milliseconds later there we were, taking the TV apart... She is now back in her cage, safe and sound.

Skye

PSYCOSNAKEMOM
07-25-2004, 09:09 AM
I am treating everyone, even the babies. They all are eating so well that all I have to do is place the appropriate amount on the belly of the mouse/pinkie and they eat it right up. The vet tells me that it is vanilla flavored. Also he says the the range for amounts without harm is pretty wide, so I have no problem putting that extra little drop that might get rubbed off.

Part of why I love the forum and why I share my stories and why I love reading others is the education component. The other parts are almost endless, the funny stories and entertainment, the debates and disagreements, the feeling of being part of the group. There just isn't anything around here that fits the bill the way the forum seems to. I get endless input pretty fast. I hope I thank Rich enough for the work that he has done to set this up. THANK YOU RICH It seems like everytime I turn arouns I learn something that helps to make me a better herper and helps to make my snakes happier. I didn't know that fecal exams were a good idea yearly or more if you introduce another animal. I have always done the 3 to 6 month quarantine but with pin worms you may not know until your animals health is compromised due to stress. So, I guess my advice is don't wait for signs, for the $16.00 just have it done. (a trick that my vet said was to put mytiple samples from different snakes in the same bag. Then you only have to pay for one test, even though you are testing several animals. His rationale is that you are going to treat them all anyhow, you're just may not know who started it for sure.)

Your story of the TV reminds me of when Merlin bolted for the couch, Spencer was holding him, watching TV, we had to rip the couch out from behind. (my good excuse for getting a long over due new couch) Skye, Thanks for your input and thanks for your support. Sam ~~~~~~~~:~

Skye
07-25-2004, 01:40 PM
Hmmm - I hope we don't have to get a new TV - we haven't tried switching it back on yet since we put it back together. It was really interesting to see inside it actually as it is one of those big screen ones. I hope it does work as I am sure we voided the warranty by taking it apart, and we haven't even finished paying for it yet!

The multiple poop idea to save money is a good one. I do fecals twice a year, but I would say that once a year is fine unless you observe problems, and definitely on all new animals. There are a number of parasites that can exist very unobtrusively in reptiles and only cause problems when the snake is compromised by another health problem. Then the parasites rapidly increase in numbers and overwhelm the sick animal. Ideally a parasite wants to keep its host healthy so it can keep living there. It's a two-way relationship. This is why many people will have animals with parasites and will have no idea that they are there.
Out of interest - do you know what dose your vet prescribed with the panacur?
Skye

PSYCOSNAKEMOM
07-26-2004, 07:42 PM
Yes, that is what this vet said. I am guessing that my Barbie, with the egg laying and even the double clutch of slugs was way to much for her. She was my sensitive one. This is the list that the vet gave me, I am doing a little more mostly for messy misses.

100 -200 g (snake size) .05 ml (meds)panacur
200 - 300 g .08
300 - 400g .1
400 - 500g .13
500 - 600g .15
600 - 700g .18

And thanks for your interest and support everyone is happy on this end. Thanks Sam ~~~~~~:~