Male on Hunger Strike!

[RedCloud]

Hello again everyone :)

So far the lovely snake and I have been doing just fine and I've been able to get back into my daily life without worrying about coming home to a snakey disaster. For those of you who don't know, I adopted a 3yr old corn snake about 2 months ago and he's my first ever scaled friend :) Since early March he's settled in quite nicely and was eating regularly. Then I had a regurge at the end of march, but he ate again Mid april with no problems. After that I went on a short 3 day vacation for Easter and he's been refusing food since then. Its now been about 3 weeks since his last mouse. I know this is the crazy breeding season, and he's been ALL over his tank the past few weeks. I've never seen him so active haha. When I put him in his feeding tank, he seems more interested in escaping then in the mouse. I've tried braining them and heating their heads with hot water but with no success. The closest he's every gotten is picking one up by the leg and playing with it for a bit before loosing interest. He doesn't seem to have lost any weight (I'm picking up a scale this week) and has been very active up to two days ago. Now he just pops his head out of his warm hide every once in a while. I've tried a mouse every week and so far he's refused 3. I don't have any other mouse eating creatures, so I keep having to chuck em and I hate wasting. Anything else I can do? Are there any signs that he's ready to eat? Should I try again this week? All temps are totally normal as well as the humidity. I've been over them like a hawk so I don't think thats the issue.

Chipotle and I thank you for your help in advance :)

[TyeW]

I would not be worried at all after 3 weeks. Double check your temps and start offering a hot prey item every 2 weeks instead.

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[TyeW]

Ignore me mentioning the temps above, I didn't catch the last part of your post.

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[TyeW]

You could also try feeding him in his enclosure instead of moving him. Heat up the mouse in hot water before offering too

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[RedCloud]

You could also try feeding him in his enclosure instead of moving him. Heat up the mouse in hot water before offering too

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I always heat the mice before feeding him, I just usually make sure the head is extra warm. I'm really worried about feeding inside his viv. First off, I don't want him to associate things coming into his viv with food, and (more importantly) I don't want him eating any of his aspen. I know people who feed inside the viv usually place the mouse on a feeding tray of some sort, but he sometimes pushes the mouse around before eating so I'm not sure if that would be effective in preventing bedding consumption.

[elliotulysses]

I would say watch his attitude. My new guy had a mini-strike. I was worried at first, but he was very happy otherwise. I was handling him the other night and noticed he got way more defensive than usual(rattling his tail and getting ready to take a nip at me!). I thought "hey, maybe he's hungry! I've wasted three other mice so why not try again?" I put him in his eating box, watched some netflix, and when I checked up on him it was gone. One major change besides attitude is I put him in a very dark enclosure for feeding. He seemed to respond much better to that. Also, what time are you feeding your friend? They might do better at night/evening.

[elliotulysses]

And how big is the place where you are trying to feed? IME the more room you give, the more likely your snake is to just cruise around and ignore its dinner. I restricted space so my snake and his dinner could be very close. ;)

[hypnoctopus]

Don't be worried yet! Many male snakes go on a hunger strike during the breeding season. A few of mine have this year, and it is annoying, but I just keep offering them food once a week.

It is too bad that you have to waste the mouse if he doesn't eat it, but to me it sounds like you need another snake. ;)

I would keep offering him a nice hot mouse once per week. The only change I would make to his normal feeding routine is to try offering him something smaller than he would normally eat. One of my males has been refusing food for about a month now, and he finally ate a hopper for me (he usually eats an adult).

[RedCloud]

I would say watch his attitude. My new guy had a mini-strike. I was worried at first, but he was very happy otherwise. I was handling him the other night and noticed he got way more defensive than usual(rattling his tail and getting ready to take a nip at me!). I thought "hey, maybe he's hungry! I've wasted three other mice so why not try again?" I put him in his eating box, watched some netflix, and when I checked up on him it was gone. One major change besides attitude is I put him in a very dark enclosure for feeding. He seemed to respond much better to that. Also, what time are you feeding your friend? They might do better at night/evening.

Oh really? Poop. Sweet little Chipotle has yet to strike or show any aggression towards me. In fact, I think he's been OVER tolerant of me haha I remember when I first got him (not long ago lol) I was afraid to take him out. I didn't mind *Holding* him but grabbing him out would sometimes take me 10min just to get up the nerve haha Unfortunately my 'feeding container' is a Rubbermaid SnappTopper which isn't very secure. It snaps shut on either end, but I've seen him push his head on the sides and the lid gives. So I can't just stick him in the closet for an hour and check up later. I tried covering the lid mostly with a blanket, and he just stops moving altogether lol I always feed him at night :)

[RedCloud]

Don't be worried yet! Many male snakes go on a hunger strike during the breeding season. A few of mine have this year, and it is annoying, but I just keep offering them food once a week.

It is too bad that you have to waste the mouse if he doesn't eat it, but to me it sounds like you need another snake. ;)

I would keep offering him a nice hot mouse once per week. The only change I would make to his normal feeding routine is to try offering him something smaller than he would normally eat. One of my males has been refusing food for about a month now, and he finally ate a hopper for me (he usually eats an adult).

Hmm, when I got him, he was eating large mice. Now I'm offering him small adults. I would love love to get another snake. Unfortunately, I'm 18 and still live with my mother. I think if I were to bring home another snake, she would go through the trouble to get a gun license, buy a gun, shoot me, and then throw me out. :eek:

However.... If I were willing to brave said circumstances, any suggestions for a voracious feeder? Preferably something that could live in a 30-55gal and wont eat my family in the middle of the night :) Also would have to be something that doesn't require precise humidity. Actually I wouldn't really care if it was even a snake, as long as it will devour left over mice and isn't terribly hard to care for :rofl:

[hypnoctopus]

I would suggest another corn, but maybe a female because they don't usually go on hunger strikes. A king snake would be another option. They are usually overly enthusiastic feeders.

[Nanci]

Florida kingsnake.

[kestreltheonly]

Maybe up the temp just a little bit if he's staying in his hot hide all the time. And I'm sorry but my iPod wont let me on to the chat idk how to ask a question elsewhere but maybe someone can help me I've noticed a slightly whitish spot starting to appear on Kestrel my corn snake and then I notice more along her body. I will post a picture tomorrow but like its not bright white it's just her scales are starting to fade into white in little sections. She's a year old in August... Could this be a sign of 'calico' syndrome or piebaldism? If so, are there any other harmful side effects of this, and is there any way to stop it? I don't want her to lose her beautiful colors! She's such a gorgeous snake!!

[RedCloud]

I would suggest another corn, but maybe a female because they don't usually go on hunger strikes. A king snake would be another option. They are usually overly enthusiastic feeders.

I'd love another corn, as they come in such nice morphs and have such even temperaments. Not really sure 'bout a female though cause of the hold egg laying thing :/ I've had female birds with egg binding and it's a real pain!

[RedCloud]

Florida kingsnake.

I was gonna get a king snake as a first snake but heard they were a bit flightly/nippy. I've not seen anyone near me selling Florida Kingsnakes though :( The place I got my corn from has a few california kings, including albinos, and banana kings. Not sure if theres much of a difference between them though. They also have some milksnakes as well.

[Nanci]

There's a huge difference between Cali kings and Florida kings. Florda kings can be bitey and musky as young snakes, and can also go through hunger striking phases in their youth. Florida kings are gentle to handle, but will eat anything. I have never been bit by one aside from when I was rummaging around in the viv of one, in blue. I just got a little warning tap, which scared the bejesus out of me! I _love_ my FK, Janine. You can probably find them at a reptile show.

[RedCloud]

There's a huge difference between Cali kings and Florida kings. Florda kings can be bitey and musky as young snakes, and can also go through hunger striking phases in their youth. Florida kings are gentle to handle, but will eat anything. I have never been bit by one aside from when I was rummaging around in the viv of one, in blue. I just got a little warning tap, which scared the bejesus out of me! I _love_ my FK, Janine. You can probably find them at a reptile show.

So my best chance is to get an adult Florida Kingsnake? Everyone is always recommending reptile shows lol But I've yet to see any near me >< I'd order one online, but the cost would be a fortune AND most places only sell hatchlings. I can't belive I'm considering another snake :P I mean....having one snake isn't THAT much different from having 2...? *cough* Right?

Anywho I'll be attempting another feeding with the little creep tomorrow. Hoping he eats. Ever since the regurg, I've been dusting his mice with Nutribac. He took one mouse with it fine, then went on hunger strike. Should I put nutribac on his mouse tomorrow?

[Nanci]

I'd try him without. And I'd also try a smaller mouse, like a fuzzy or a hopper. And get it really hot, and even dry it with a blow-dryer.

I've got males here that have been on hunger strike for a month or two, though- it's that time of the year. None of them did it last year, but this year they are crazy!

[ashleynicole]

get a king snake for refused food... they never skip a meal. lol

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[RedCloud]

I tried to feed him today, he didn't take it :( This time I tried a hopper and I blow dried it + brained it. He pushed it around with his face a few times, but didn't eat it. I left him in the container for about 2hrs. He constantly paced around looking for a way out. I took some photos of him after. 180530180531180532

He looks ok to me, and he's very active but then again I have 0 experience. He's missed 4 feeds already. I'm still looking for a scale, so I don't know his weight but I don't think he's lost any. Any opinions?


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[Nanci]

He's certainly not thin! I'd try again in two or three weeks.

[smigon]

I've got males here that have been on hunger strike for a month or two, though- it's that time of the year. None of them did it last year, but this year they are crazy!

This is only my second spring having corn snakes, last year I only had one female (Scarlett) and she was just over a year old and did nothing out of the ordinary.

This spring I had a total of 6 in the house, 2 females and 4 males, all of them went on hunger strikes, odd behavior, and being a newbie I had no idea. The males have all chilled out, but both females laid eggs. I never expected that to happen, and unfortunately I figured it out too late with my older girl, by the time I made the lay box and put her in it, she was already almost emaciated. She laid 12 tiny eggs yesterday, crawled out of the box and died. The eggs were so tiny, I felt for them to see if she was gravid but they were too small for me to detect. The largest one was no more than the size of a marble.

So thank you, Nanci, I am glad it isn't just me, everyone is having odd behavior and it makes me feel better to know that someone with your experience is having the same reactions with their snakes, that it isn't something I did wrong.

[Rigby & Marcy]

For what it's worth, Rigby still hasn't eaten for the third week straight. :(
He's lost 8.7% of his weight but luckily he was a little chubby so he doesn't look too bad. Still stressful for his worried owner!

[RedCloud]

This is only my second spring having corn snakes, last year I only had one female (Scarlett) and she was just over a year old and did nothing out of the ordinary.



This spring I had a total of 6 in the house, 2 females and 4 males, all of them went on hunger strikes, odd behavior, and being a newbie I had no idea. The males have all chilled out, but both females laid eggs. I never expected that to happen, and unfortunately I figured it out too late with my older girl, by the time I made the lay box and put her in it, she was already almost emaciated. She laid 12 tiny eggs yesterday, crawled out of the box and died. The eggs were so tiny, I felt for them to see if she was gravid but they were too small for me to detect. The largest one was no more than the size of a marble.



So thank you, Nanci, I am glad it isn't just me, everyone is having odd behavior and it makes me feel better to know that someone with your experience is having the same reactions with their snakes, that it isn't something I did wrong.


Ah jez sorry about your female :( from what I see on this forum, you take AMAZING care of your snakes, so I'm sure you did everything you could have.


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[RedCloud]

For what it's worth, Rigby still hasn't eaten for the third week straight. :(
He's lost 8.7% of his weight but luckily he was a little chubby so he doesn't look too bad. Still stressful for his worried owner!


Yea it's super stressful! I just sit there trying to mentally WILL him to eat the mouse but no go. I'm thinking of maybe temp. Clearing out the aspen, putting in some carpeting and leaving him overnight with the mouse. I'd say I'd try rat babies, but I don't want him perm refusing mice AND I have no idea where to get them not in bulk. GL with Rigby though, hope he eats!


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[Nanci]

I remember when my first snake did this. It was super-stressful. Do you feed him in his viv, or in a container? You can just leave him in a container for several hours, if you like. It helps to cover it up so he isn't pacing around. But really- I feed snakes his size every three weeks, and if they are blue, they don't get fed. Three weeks is nothing to worry about.

[RedCloud]

I remember when my first snake did this. It was super-stressful. Do you feed him in his viv, or in a container? You can just leave him in a container for several hours, if you like. It helps to cover it up so he isn't pacing around. But really- I feed snakes his size every three weeks, and if they are blue, they don't get fed. Three weeks is nothing to worry about.


I feed him in a separate container, but it's not really secure that I'd trust him in it without supervision. I'm looking to get a separate feeding tank but not sure what size I should get? Would a 10gal be ok?
I'm not really worried that he's hasn't eaten, I'm more worried about when he will start eating lol I just keep thinking that maybe he's decided to never eat again xD Silly, I know, but I treat all my animal companions like this. It's a wonder they all put up with me haha


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[Nanci]

I use the medium Sterilite Showoffs (http://www.sterilite.com/SelectProduct.html?id=278&ProductCategory=248&section=1) for adults, and the small for yearlings.

[smigon]

Ah jez sorry about your female :( from what I see on this forum, you take AMAZING care of your snakes, so I'm sure you did everything you could have.



Thanks, RedCloud, I do try to take the best care of my snakes, this was a situation I had never thought could or would happen. I am trying not to beat myself up over this, but it is still a bummer.

[ashleynicole]

We use old tidy cats litter containers or sterilite tubs

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[RedCloud]

Well as an update, I'm gonna try feed him this week. Today I was changing his water and decided to take him out to check on him, and he felt SQUISHY. Not really his neck area but more his mid body and tail. And when he moves I can kinda see his spine. Not ultra prominent but it's worrying me lol He's been all over his tank and is very active so idk why he would loose muscle tone?! He was very well behaved, no striking or anything. If anything he seemed more chill then usual, but still seemed to want to roam about like normal. Should I be worried about his squishyness?


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[smigon]

I think he is "squishy" from losing muscle mass, he will bulk back up. It was a weird spring, so I have some "squishy" snakes too! Just feed him, take him out often and let him explore to help with exercise. He should be fine!

[Rigby & Marcy]

Mine still isn't eating. He's starting to look pretty bad. :( I can say I'm proficient in braining a mouse though! Marcy was very excited about Rigby's brained leftovers. :/

[Nanci]

Well as an update, I'm gonna try feed him this week. Today I was changing his water and decided to take him out to check on him, and he felt SQUISHY. Not really his neck area but more his mid body and tail. And when he moves I can kinda see his spine. Not ultra prominent but it's worrying me lol He's been all over his tank and is very active so idk why he would loose muscle tone?! He was very well behaved, no striking or anything. If anything he seemed more chill then usual, but still seemed to want to roam about like normal. Should I be worried about his squishyness?


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Hold it! Are you positive he's a male? Because you are describing "jello butt" to a T. The condition a female is in right before laying eggs. I'd throw a lay box in with him ASAP- just in case...

[RedCloud]

Hold it! Are you positive he's a male? Because you are describing "jello butt" to a T. The condition a female is in right before laying eggs. I'd throw a lay box in with him ASAP- just in case...


Haha jello butt xD
He was sold to me as a male but I've never had a vet opinion or had him sexed in front of me. Are there any other "female" things he might be doing during this time? He has been super active and on a hunger strike so I just figured those are male things? Should I replace once of his hides with a lay box? Cause there's not much room in his Viv with the giant water dish and 2 hides lol


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[RedCloud]

Mine still isn't eating. He's starting to look pretty bad. :( I can say I'm proficient in braining a mouse though! Marcy was very excited about Rigby's brained leftovers. :/


Jez poor guy :( I hate when any of my animals don't eat. It's so frustrating. Especially with snakes cause there's limited things to do with their food to make them eat it. At least with my cat, I can just give him some "junk" cat food and he'll chow down. Hopefully your guy snaps out of it soon :(


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[RedCloud]

I think he is "squishy" from losing muscle mass, he will bulk back up. It was a weird spring, so I have some "squishy" snakes too! Just feed him, take him out often and let him explore to help with exercise. He should be fine!


Haha I hope it's just that! I keep trying to remember exactly how he felt before. Now I'm worrying so much my brain is playing tricks on me. I mean, he's def MORE squishy, but I'm having a hard time remembering if he was a little squishy in the beginning. Ah!


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[ashleynicole]

I think if its a female it is restless because it's looking for somewhere to lay. Put a box with damp spagnum moss in and see if he/she takes to it.

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[smigon]

Should I replace once of his hides with a lay box? Cause there's not much room in his Viv with the giant water dish and 2 hides lol



Yes, and do it ASAP. This is why I lost Snow a few weeks ago, I had no idea she needed to lay and as soon as the box went in she went in it and laid 12 tiny slugs, crawled out and died. She (if it is a she!) won't need the hides, the box is a hide in itself. I made it on the fly with a regular shoebox and put a hole on one end. If she needs to lay and needs it now, you will only need the box for a few days, once she lays you can take it out and toss it and the slugs. I will have a more appropriate box (or several!) for Scarlett (and whoever else comes along this year) for next spring.

Good luck, I hope it gets figured out soon!

[RedCloud]

Yes, and do it ASAP. This is why I lost Snow a few weeks ago, I had no idea she needed to lay and as soon as the box went in she went in it and laid 12 tiny slugs, crawled out and died. She (if it is a she!) won't need the hides, the box is a hide in itself. I made it on the fly with a regular shoebox and put a hole on one end. If she needs to lay and needs it now, you will only need the box for a few days, once she lays you can take it out and toss it and the slugs. I will have a more appropriate box (or several!) for Scarlett (and whoever else comes along this year) for next spring.



Good luck, I hope it gets figured out soon!


Woah he/she/it is getting a hide box ASAP. Should it be make of something like cardboard or can it be see through like a humid hide? Should I put it on the warm side or cool side? If Chipotle turns out to be a female, that snake place is gonna hear it from me >.> I would rather them tell me they don't know the gender then make something up. At least then I would have had him sexed by a professional and been prepared for the situation.


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[hypnoctopus]

I use a plastic container with a lid that has a big hole for her to be able to easily get in and out. I put mine partially on the warm side, so if she wants to be warmer, she can, but she isn't stuck on the warm side.

[Chip]

I always heat the mice before feeding him, I just usually make sure the head is extra warm. I'm really worried about feeding inside his viv. First off, I don't want him to associate things coming into his viv with food, and (more importantly) I don't want him eating any of his aspen.
While I offer on a plate and certainly try to avoid substrate ingestion, I have watched hognose eat a teaspoon of the stuff many times, and pass it. I don't think aspen consumption is a huge environmental risk. For me, this is only a problem with hairless mice that I use to feed hoggies. A dry mouse with fur won't have much sticking to it. And food association with the viv, etc. is nonsense, imo. If you feed them, they understand that people = food sometimes but not always. Not saying you should stop feeding outside the viv as a practice, but I would certainly stop until he's feeding reliably again. http://arbreptiles.com/lastword/snakefeeding.shtml
I know people who feed inside the viv usually place the mouse on a feeding tray of some sort, but he sometimes pushes the mouse around before eating so I'm not sure if that would be effective in preventing bedding consumption.

I have had more than twenty snakes on feeding strike take live. I *hate* feeding live, but it's worked for me many times, including this year. The good thing is, they usually will fall right back into feeding on f/t after they take their live meal. Only a time or two have I had former great f/t feeders get stuck on live. If you are worried about an aggressive mouse, get a crawler. It won't be much food, but if it kick-starts the feeding response, it's worth it. Good luck and keep us posted.

[ashleynicole]

I feed in the vivs when Im lazy, my husband hates it, but we have 8 snakes and its just soooo much easier to feed in there.

That being said we did get a few more bites when I fed them in their vivs regularly so we stopped for a while and only do it now when wete in a crunch.

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[smigon]

Woah he/she/it is getting a hide box ASAP. Should it be make of something like cardboard or can it be see through like a humid hide?



Make it dark. Like I said, I used a cardboard shoe box but that was in quick desperation, and it was only used a couple of days so it did its purpose and was discarded. If you only have clear containers to use, cover the viv with a towel to give her privacy. If she does go in and stays in, leave her be for a few days until you see her out on her own. If she hasn't come out after 4 days I would take a peek in the box. Good luck!

[RedCloud]

Had another feeding this Sunday and HE ATE! It was 1 "normal" sized adult mouse. Looked kinda tiny to me, but he took it right from my hand! Yea I know I could have gotten chomped, but I was wearing gloves and he NEVER strikes at his mice. He always just gently takes them and eats xD I'm hoping that's it and he's back to normal! After the feed I put him in his warm hide and he only came out yesterday for some water.
As far as a lay box, I put in his humid hide and then just covered his Viv with a large towel since I can't seem to find and suitable cardboard. I've noticed he's only squishy feeling when not moving. When he's using his body to slither around, he's much more firm. I'd have him sexed by a pro, but there's no one near me who keeps reptiles and the vets want a small fortune to stick a probe up my snakes butt lol *Not that I wouldn't take him to the vet if he needed it. Just think it's silly to pay $200+ for someone to poke around my snake and tell me something as simple as gender lol *


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[Chip]

Good to hear!

[smigon]

YAY! Good to hear, and hopefully the lay box isn't even an issue. But it may be in the future, because we ALL know you can't have just one corn! (Isn't there a law about that? The "Multiple Cornicus Snakus" law, it requires a minimum of 2, but the more you have the less laws you are breaking!!!) :rofl:

[RedCloud]

YAY! Good to hear, and hopefully the lay box isn't even an issue. But it may be in the future, because we ALL know you can't have just one corn! (Isn't there a law about that? The "Multiple Cornicus Snakus" law, it requires a minimum of 2, but the more you have the less laws you are breaking!!!) :rofl:

Good lord, I thought that was just a funny little thing you guys would say cause corns are awesome and all. When I got Chipotle, I only wanted ONE snake. Now that I have him and am used to him....I want another. Not that I don't LOOOVE Chipotle, but I want more snakes to share my love with :P I'm actually considering getting a snake rack for like $300 cause I don't have room in my house for a bunch of tanks. I'm just a bit worried about working with heat tape lol

I think you people brainwashed me into wanting more :D

[smigon]

Good lord, I thought that was just a funny little thing you guys would say cause corns are awesome and all. When I got Chipotle, I only wanted ONE snake. Now that I have him and am used to him....I want another. Not that I don't LOOOVE Chipotle, but I want more snakes to share my love with :P I'm actually considering getting a snake rack for like $300 cause I don't have room in my house for a bunch of tanks. I'm just a bit worried about working with heat tape lol

I think you people brainwashed me into wanting more :D

Ah, our job is done! Another one turned to the darkside... :bounce: