Corn snake ate, got sick, died- strange symptoms

[Sharon C]

I had my corn snake for 10 years. Its never been sick.

The other night I fell asleep on my couch and woke up and fed the snake the rat that had been defrosting. My husband attempted to feed it (I have always fed it) but it didn't want the rat, so I tried- thinking maybe my husband spooked it. It did not want the rat from me, either, but I was dead tired and laid the rat on the top of the cave in case the snake was just spooked and would take it after we walked away. I have done this during the day and end up throwing out the mouse/rat because the snake usually doesn't change its mind. But I was exhausted and not thinking clearly and I left the rat and went upstairs.

The next morning I discovered the rat had been eaten after all, and I sure hoped it was right away and not after sitting there- but when I went closer to tank, I discovered the snake with its head partially submerged in the waterbowl, it even appeared the nostrils were under. I pulled snake out of water, it was very lethargic- I was shocked and thinking, why didn't I throw out that rat!!!! What was wrong with me???

Went to work, called vet, got appointment, got out, took snake to vet but NOT a snake expert. But they were open and could take me and the guy had *some* experience with snakes. He could not tell the snake was sick- no bubbles, he opened mouth- mouth looked clean and normal. Eyes were clear, skin & scales all good. The snake was moving a little on his arm but my snake healthy would have been moving much, much more. He gave a shot of antibiotics in case of infection somewhere.

Next morning, I discover snake coiled up in a cave, UPSIDE DOWN. My snake is 10 yrs old, it is NOT a stargazer, it has not been near any other snakes to catch a virus. I could not think of any toxin that could have caused it. When I lifted the cave to get a better look, it began moving around the tank but with the head bent and very distorted. The mouth began gaping open and appeared to have turned brownish or purplish (hard to tell). I have seen mouth rot in pictures, it did not look like it. I had to go to work- I figured when I got back, I would take it to be euthanized because it appeared in bad shape to me. I got a call from my son around 2pm that he came home from school and the snake had passed.

WHAT HAPPENED? Did I kill my snake by leaving that rat in the tank? I have searched and cannot find these symptoms anywhere- they are all related to things it appears my snake could not have had.

Thanks.

[hypnoctopus]

I'm so sorry your snake died. I really don't think feeding him the rat was the cause of it. I have left food with snakes overnight and they have eaten and digested it just fine.

How long have you been feeding the snake rats? Rats are usually too fatty for corn snakes to be eating on a regular basis. I wonder if maybe his arteries were clogged?

What sort of setup was he in?

[Sharon C]

I changed in between mice and rats. So, it did not only eat rats but they were a better size for the snake because the snake was about 5.5 feet and its girth easily took on the rat.

It has a glass tank, a window nearby that gave it natural sunrise and sunset. I do have the heat lamps but they had been off lately. They've been off before and the snake was always fine. If it had a respiratory infection I'd fear it had pneumonia and I'd conclude the temps must have been too low but it showed zero signs of a respiratory ailment. It had a water dish, etc. I'm mainly looking for info on diseases or genetic issues that can come out at age 10. Or, something strange like rare occurrences.

[HVani]

What temps were the cage? Sometimes neurological issues can happen from temps getting too warm.

So sorry for your loss

[Sharon C]

It was about 70. I feared maybe it got too cool. The vet told me put the heat lamp back on, so I did, and next morning snake was upside down.

[Sharon C]

Oh, I also only began offering these smaller sized rats in the last 2 years- most of its life it lived on mice. But it got pretty big and could handle the rat. I took a pic of my snake in the vets office. I couldn't figure out how to post it. But the snake was big- and to be honest the body looked swollen to me.

[Sharon C]

http://https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1622885_10206049123689285_7805681375868792788_n.jp g?oh=30fb4cbdc8c7b701460f8453337459ca&oe=55749FE9

[Sharon C]

Trying to post the pic

[hypnoctopus]

If you already have your image uploaded to Facebook (or any website), right click it and select 'copy image location'. Then when you make a new post here, click the little icon that looks like a mountain and sun and paste your image code in there.

[hypnoctopus]

And to be honest, it doesn't sound like you did anything that would have caused your snake to die. There's no real way to know what the cause was without getting a necropsy.

[smigon]

The temp was a little too cool, but that would cause a regurge, probably not the color in his mouth. I agree with Hypnoctopus, the rats are very fatty and even though they look like the right size it is the nutrition they get out of the prey that affects them. I don't think you did anything wrong, it was just his time. You did the best you could, and having him for 10 years is a testament to your care.

[daddio207]

Sorry for your loss......

Chances are something was going on health wise with the snake before eating the rat. Kidney failure, liver disease, stomatitis ??? Possibly just old age. 10 isn't that old but just like humans it varies quite a bit. Digesting a prey item takes a lot of energy and combined with whatever going on probably was to much for it to handle. Letting it sit out for hours or even a day usually doesn't matter. I got one beauty snake that wont eat until the mouse has sat in there for 1 to 2 days. She has eaten this way for many months.
Rats are just barely more fatty than mice. There is a chart posted on here somewhere listing the difference in fat content and it's minimal.
A corn snake can digest at 70 degrees but with the possibility of something else going on it probably didn't matter if your heat lamp was on or not. I definitely would have had it on though. It's the ambient temp that matters over basking or belly temps.
Not all snakes regurge if it cant digest either.
Again sorry for your loss......

[Myca]

I think your snake had a stroke or threw a clot. Everything you describe from the bizarre behaviour to the change in the color of the mucus membrane in the mouth (cyanosis) points to a stroke or a clot. It wasn't the rat.

[Myca]

In fact, your snake may have had a series of small strokes or clots.

[Sharon C]

Thanks everyone. This was my snake.

http://https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1622885_10206049123689285_7805681375868792788_n.jp g?oh=30fb4cbdc8c7b701460f8453337459ca&oe=55749FE9

[Sharon C]

Doesn't seem to work for me.

:-( oh well.

[Sharon C]

Too bad because I had an awesome corn snake. Would have loved to share the pic- I followed instructions exact and it doesn't work. I am a photographer who uploads everywhere- but not here I guess.

[Chip]

Sharon, just right click your image on another website you've posted it on. Select "copy image URL." Then go back to this site. When posting, you will see a list of icons over your post. The second from the right is "Insert image" paste the image url into this box. This will display your photo. Another option is to use a hosting site such as tinypic. But images do post fine on this site, and they work the same way they do on other message boards I am on.

[MysticExotics]

Sharon, I am sorry for your loss. Not knowing makes it tough, too.
I agree that without a necropsy, there's no way of knowing for sure.

I'm inclined to believe that the excess fat from rats likely had something to do with it. Snakes should be living 20+ years, and many are not, because they are often over fed, or fed a diet that is too high in fat(rats).

I have seen a number of times, where people have lost snakes at a young age, and a necropsy shows excess fat build up inside (even when the snake looked "healthy" outwardly).

In the wild, they're not just eating rodents, they eat birds too, among other foods, which are much leaner than the rodents we feed them, especially rats.

I have started to order baby chicks and quail to supplement mine, to offer a leaner source of food, in hopes of keeping mine healthier.

I would still deep clean the enclosure and maybe let it dry out in the sun for a couple days, before adding a new occupant.

[Sharon C]

Hi-

Thanks again- I have followed the post image instructions exactly and it doesn't seem to work. The image is on Facebook. My posts are all "friends only" and not public. Could that be the issue? I'd experiment but posts here do not allow editing so, every mistake will post. But trust me, I have followed those instructions exactly. I am copying and pasting the image URL so I can't see how I could be making a mistake.

I only have fed it rats in between mice, and only during the last maybe year and a half to 2 years at most. It has eaten maybe 12 - 14 rats. Will they really clog the arteries that quickly? Thanks.

[hypnoctopus]

Maybe try uploading your image to a different host site and then posting it here. I'd really like to see him.

Although rats are a bit fattier than mice, I don't imagine that they were the cause.

[Chip]

Hi-

Thanks again- I have followed the post image instructions exactly and it doesn't seem to work. The image is on Facebook. My posts are all "friends only" and not public. Could that be the issue? I'd experiment but posts here do not allow editing so, every mistake will post. But trust me, I have followed those instructions exactly. I am copying and pasting the image URL so I can't see how I could be making a mistake.


Just as an experiment, I've posted a FB photo set to be viewable by "only me" to see if it will work.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10361466_1535149883413583_2319856924758646735_n.jp g?oh=7da7032584fef069afe66e474b28d538&oe=55BB58B2&__gda__=1437425803_9819c1c6f2595ca9db72afe77e9479e c

[Chip]

Hmm, that's not the issue. This is the button you click to insert the image URL:
https://scontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11081095_1545828692345702_3276840770924167983_n.jp g?oh=c6f6a8dd9af34ac77da1d2d86242d92a&oe=55B0B924

[hypnoctopus]

Also keep in mind that you can preview your post to see if the picture worked. There is also a test section way at the bottom of the front page of this forum if you want to test out posting anything.