Should I see a weight gain each week

[mrobinson12]

I am following the Munson plan. I got Tepesh on 02.06.16 and he weighed 29g. I have fed him 3X since getting him.

I weigh him and the fuzzy each time. So he was 29g, 30g and 30g. The fuzzies are 3g. I am feeding him every Monday night.

I am just curious if I should see a gain each week or no. I am just being a little nervous since losing my first 2 snakes but they were smaller.

Thanks


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[Karl_Mcknight]

yes there should be some weight gain per each feeding, but there are a lot of factors.
1). Different snakes grow at different rates.
2). The size and weight of the snake currently
3). The weight of the food
4). The accuracy of your scale

I am feeding 18 to 21 gram mice right now to a snake that is about 33 inches long and weighs around 162 grams. The best time to weigh the snake is after its poop, otherwise you are also weighing the meal along with the snake.

When my snake was a baby it grew much faster. As they get older and bigger they slow down a bit. And finally reach a point (2 to 4 years) where you won't even notice much growth but you'll try to maintain their current weight.

My snake right now is gaining about 3 grams per feeding or roughly 1/7th of the weight of the food. At one time when he was a baby, he was gaining at a rate of about 1/3rd to 1/2 the weight of the food.

So your snake is gaining weight of about 1/3rd the food item right now. That sounds reasonable to me.

[mrobinson12]

yes there should be some weight gain per each feeding, but there are a lot of factors.
1). Different snakes grow at different rates.
2). The size and weight of the snake currently
3). The weight of the food
4). The accuracy of your scale

I am feeding 18 to 21 gram mice right now to a snake that is about 33 inches long and weighs around 162 grams. The best time to weigh the snake is after its poop, otherwise you are also weighing the meal along with the snake.

When my snake was a baby it grew much faster. As they get older and bigger they slow down a bit. And finally reach a point (2 to 4 years) where you won't even notice much growth but you'll try to maintain their current weight.

My snake right now is gaining about 3 grams per feeding or roughly 1/7th of the weight of the food. At one time when he was a baby, he was gaining at a rate of about 1/3rd to 1/2 the weight of the food.

So your snake is gaining weight of about 1/3rd the food item right now. That sounds reasonable to me.



Thank you Karl I know I am just over reacting lol especially since it has only been 3 feedings.



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[DollysMom]

I've noticed that in my limited experience none of my snakes have gained much the first month. They are still settling into their new lives. I've even had snakes lose a gram during the first month.

If you want, you could move to 6 day feedings. That's not overly agressive with a 30 gram snake.

I just checked my records and I was feeding 4 gram and 5 gram fuzzies at 6 day intervals at that weight. That generally gave me a 2 gram gain each feeding. I know that you can't always get the prey size you want and I also think it is better not to try to grow them too fast.

So that's all a long way of saying it's fine and when they are settled you can up the size a little and/or decrease the interval to 6 days.

[mrobinson12]

I've noticed that in my limited experience none of my snakes have gained much the first month. They are still settling into their new lives. I've even had snakes lose a gram during the first month.

If you want, you could move to 6 day feedings. That's not overly agressive with a 30 gram snake.

I just checked my records and I was feeding 4 gram and 5 gram fuzzies at 6 day intervals at that weight. That generally gave me a 2 gram gain each feeding. I know that you can't always get the prey size you want and I also think it is better not to try to grow them too fast.

So that's all a long way of saying it's fine and when they are settled you can up the size a little and/or decrease the interval to 6 days.


Thanks you have been so helpful!! I will move him to 6 days for the next feeding.


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[Nanci]

Fuzzies don't weigh 3g. Fuzzies are 7-9g. That's one issue. He should be eating 7 gram fuzzies. Also, I'd slit the mice with 3-4 slits crosswise down the back, for easier digestion, and if I was only feeding one snake, I'd be feeding at a 5 day interval until he's on weanlings.

[Dragonling]

Don't weigh every feeding, you'll go crazy haha! :P

[mrobinson12]

Fuzzies don't weigh 3g. Fuzzies are 7-9g. That's one issue. He should be eating 7 gram fuzzies. Also, I'd slit the mice with 3-4 slits crosswise down the back, for easier digestion, and if I was only feeding one snake, I'd be feeding at a 5 day interval until he's on weanlings.


What!?! I had a 3 pack of fuzzies and each one weighed either 2 or 3 grams. (Yes they were fuzzies! Lol ) I have to buy some more today will check them out. Here is a pic of him eating it last night. I don't think my scale is junk I borrowed a friends to b sure mine was right and they both weighed my snake at the same weight.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160223/ae8a0eb0c9fc3d92ecc2167891b65b78.jpg


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[DollysMom]

To clarify and expand upon my prior comment in light of Nanci's recommendation, my small fuzzies are generally 4 to 6 grams and regular fuzzies are 7 to 9 grams, and then that can vary by supplier. I can imagine that there are things labeled as fuzzies in the chain stores that are barely more than large pinkies. I weigh my mice and I've have had pinkies that are a little larger than some of my smallest fuzzies. The difference is seen mostly in the amount of fur and the tail length.

If you want to feed 7 gram fuzzies to a 30 gram snake that has been eating 3 gram fuzzies, I recommend moving up in size gradually. Slitting can help, as Nanci said (and I do note she has far more experience than I, and I have the utmost respect for her recommendations).

My snake weighs 41 grams, is gaining 3 grams a feeding on a 6 day interval and is still on 5.5 gram fuzzies. That's based on the bulge the mouse makes, the speed at which she digests it, the weight gain I measure, and her shape (the so called loaf of bread cross section -- an underfed snake will have a triangular cross section). I have a lot of fuzzies to choose from and will gradually be moving her up in size after she sheds. She's currently in blue and I skipped her scheduled feeding last night.

I am purposely feeding more conservatively than the Munson Plan. After a lot of reading and study here and other places, I believe that it is best for the long term health and longevity of my snake. How agressively to feed a growing youngster is a decision each snake owner has the responsibility to make for themselves. By telling you what I'm doing, I'm giving input; and certainly only you can decide, within reason, the exact details of how to feed your snake.

[daddio207]

Labeling mice for sale by where they are in their life cycle (pinky, fuzzy, hopper, adult) should be dropped IMO.

I just fed off some "fuzzies" that were the size of pinkies :shrugs:

[Dragonling]

I just compared the sizes of mice available at petsmart (arctic mice brand) and I couldn't believe how small they are. Their fuzzies are barely peach fuzzies, and large mice are not even 20g each. Oddly, the bulk ones we get to feed in-store pets tend to be closer to the right size.

[Nanci]

What!?! I had a 3 pack of fuzzies and each one weighed either 2 or 3 grams. (Yes they were fuzzies! Lol ) I have to buy some more today will check them out. Here is a pic of him eating it last night. I don't think my scale is junk I borrowed a friends to b sure mine was right and they both weighed my snake at the same weight.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160223/ae8a0eb0c9fc3d92ecc2167891b65b78.jpg


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Weanling/ Small Adult = mouse who is totally weaned from mom

Hopper/ Crawler = juvenile mouse who has left the nest, but is dependent on mom for milk

Fuzzy = juvenile mouse that has its full hair coat, and eyes are open

Peach Fuzzy/Small Fuzzy = baby mouse that has a coat of hair grown in, but you can still see the pinkness of the skin, and eyes are not open, or just beginning to open

Pink/Pinky = baby mouse without hair, eyes closed

Red/ Day Old = just born mouse, less than a day old, red in color

[Nanci]

Labeling mice for sale by where they are in their life cycle (pinky, fuzzy, hopper, adult) should be dropped IMO.

I had this revelation a few years ago that the mouse life stage corresponds with the snake life stage.

neonate snakes eat reds for the first meal

hatchlings eat pinks

juveniles eat fuzzies/hoppers

yearlings eat weanlings

adults eat adults

big fat old cornsnakes can eat jumbos/retired breeders

[DollysMom]

I just compared the sizes of mice available at petsmart (arctic mice brand) and I couldn't believe how small they are. Their fuzzies are barely peach fuzzies, and large mice are not even 20g each. Oddly, the bulk ones we get to feed in-store pets tend to be closer to the right size.

That and the price make Layne Labs, even with shipping to Illinois, a better option for me (with only 2 to feed the fact they sell bags as small as 10 is a real plus). I'm glad I can pick up Artic mice in an emergency. I can't for the life of me understand why Artic mice are so small.

[mrobinson12]

I get mine at petco. I am sure they are close to what Petsmart sells. I am going to start looking at some online options with hopes of controlling what sizes I get.


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[Karl_Mcknight]

we have a "HomeTown Pet Supply" here where I live. It's a chain store like PetsMart and PetCo, but this is the only HomeTown Pet Store I've ever seen. They are not as big. But they sell the "Reptiles By Mack" type frozen Mice. They run truer to size than the Arctic Mice that PetsMart sells.

[mrobinson12]

Anyone have any recommendations of online suppliers that they have had good dealings with? Do they have yo ship overnight because it is frozen. Usually the good prices go out the window once they tack on shipping lol


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[Karl_Mcknight]

they package them with dry ice and ship them overnight. Unless you miss the shipment, they should stay frozen for maybe 2 days. The thing is you pay for shipping. Shipping charges can cost more than the mice themselves, and can actually cost you more than going into a store and buying some off the shelf. (If you just want a few mice, having them shipped is probably not a good idea. If you plan to buy in bulk it's a great idea). But you or somebody needs to be there when the package arrives or have the delivery "Hold" the package and you can go and pick it up in person.

Having said all that - if your snake is young and still growing and let's say you are feeding "Pinkies" right now, then you might need to bump up to Fuzzies before you use up all the pinkies. It might not be a good idea to buy 100 or 500 Pinkies thinking you can save 60 bucks only to not use them all.

My thinking on this is - if the snake is a baby and still growing, I prefer to just buy mice locally as I need them. Once the snake is an adult and eating adult mice, then I'd prefer to buy in bulk and save a little money.

But that has to be "Your Call."

Anyway, here are a few links to people that have a good reputation for selling frozen mice:

http://www.rodentpro.com/

https://www.laynelabs.com/

Good Luck

[mrobinson12]

I got some more fuzzies today from Petco the bag says it should be 5g or more. I am feeding Tepesh tonight curious how much it will weigh.


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[mrobinson12]

Well I knew I was worried about nothing lol Tepesh gained 2g since feeding her Monday and the fuzzies I got today was 5g. I guess I just got a small batch. I bought single packs this time since they were out of the three packs. I wonder if they put smaller ones in the 3pks [emoji848]


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[mrobinson12]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160228/d4f3cfef50d045ce765e8b0ccca89d7d.jpg


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[DollysMom]

That's a great picture. Glad it's going well!

[Asmodeus]

I also buy the 3 packs from petco (working there gives me a discount so its nice), and I've weighed every one, and they vary from a pinkie (had no hair wasnt even a peach fuzzy yet) that was 3 grams to 4 gram peach fuzzies to 5 grams. some bags have smaller mice and others have bigger. when i was feeding pinkies, some were the 1 day old red size and others were as large as the 3 gram "fuzzy" I got. so yes the sizes vary wildly, but for now its useful as I am trying so slowly size mine up.

[Dragonling]

we have a "HomeTown Pet Supply" here where I live. It's a chain store like PetsMart and PetCo, but this is the only HomeTown Pet Store I've ever seen. They are not as big. But they sell the "Reptiles By Mack" type frozen Mice. They run truer to size than the Arctic Mice that PetsMart sells.

LOL I forgot John Mack started selling feeders. Pretty sure they're resale too, from some place in Michigan I think. He took one of the big freezers home to hold some of the mice for sale right before I left.

Anyway I just got a shipment from Layne labs and man are their large fuzzies BIG. Looks like Tango is getting the biggest large pinks I have til he can handle them.

[Karl_Mcknight]

This is the box they come in. You can see it lists them as "Medium Sized Mice." There are 4 mice to a box with a total weight of 52 grams. That comes to about 13 grams per mouse. According to the Munson Chart we would call a 13 gram mouse a "Big Hopper or a Small Weanling." A lot of the stores that sell packaged mice do not list them as the Munson Chart does, rather they keep it simple with Small, Medium, Large and Jumbo. We as the buyers have to use a little common sense and look at the packaged weight and refer to the chart for the proper feeding schedule. I mean, does it really matter what we call the mouse? So long as it's the right size and weight for the snake, who cares if it's a hopper, weanling, or Medium Mouse?